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Which of the Trichocereus cactus is more potent?

So now you're disregarding Trout's and other's scientific data for your anecdotal data.
No, I have no doubt that theoretically it is possible to find some san pedro with enormous amounts of mescaline in it. It's just that after 10 years of buying the stuff from every possible source you can buy it I've never found any. Maybe he'll be lucky, my instinct says he won't.
And I'm question the validity of the information you gave him.
In what way? Do you think he should stick with Bridgesii on the off chance he might find the one rare specimen that has more mescaline than san pedro? Or should he go for the species that is widely regarded to contain more mescaline as I have indicated to him?
It has do with what dosage would result in physical toxicity
People have consumed far, far more than 1 gram of mescaline and had no physically toxic effects whatsoever. The LD50 is far higher than 1 gram. And as I say, eating enough san pedro to get 1 gram of mescaline is far beyond the ability of most of us. Lets just say I've never heard anyone overdose on san pedro - I have heard many, many people say they got minimal effects.
 
Thanks people. I was really lucky in the end, i went back to the nursery and to my surprise they had just got in about 10 1 foot T. Pachanoi's :) So me and a few of my friends had about 9 inches each and had a wonderfull trip at a beautiful beach. Cacti is great. I think i will have to start a little Cacti farm now. Ill probably purchase quite a few species, so ill make sure to report on potencey differences.
 
Originally posted by mll:
And I question the validity of the information you gave him.
In what way?
Do you have any references at all to where you got "around 40mg/100mg" or is it just your silly wild ass guess?? Just because your limited experience hasn't seen any variability doesn't mean others haven't. I certainly have and so have numerous scientists who have anylized cacti. Now if you wanted to say that Pachanoi is on average stronger than Bridgesii thats one thing. But thats not what you said.
[ 09 March 2003: Message edited by: gloggawogga ]
Click to expand...
 
Do you have any references at all to where you got "around 40mg/100mg"
K Trouts "Sacred Cacti" - the most accurate reference work on cacti currently in existence.
Just because your limited experience.
It's a good bet I've had more experience with san pedro than you could ever dream about.
hasn't seen any variability
No, I've seen variability - just never to the extremes you insist occur on a regular basis.
I certainly have
How did you judge this exactly? Did you come close to overdosing on mescaline from cacti? Did you get more "powerful" trips off certain cacti? How scientifically did you check this? Did you carry out each test in exactly the same conditions in exactly the same environment? Or is this just you thinking "radical, i think that trip was harder than my last one - must've been 1200mg of mescaline in it..."
The chances of someone overdosing on mescaline from a 9" section of fresh san pedro because it contains more than 1200mg of mescaline are very, very low. In 10 years I've never heard anyone even come close to overdosing mescaline from san pedro.
Now if you wanted to say that Pachanoi is on average stronger than Bridgesii thats one thing. But thats not what you said.
I said pachanoi usually contains more mescaline than bridgesii. It does. End of story
 
I posted this on the dosage and methods of administration thread for cactus but no clear answer.

Which of the Trichocereus cactus is would generally contain more mescaline?
So a lot of people have said Peruvianus is more potent than Pachanoi (San Pedro) but others say there are around equal strength (varying between individual specimens obviously). What about bridgesii and terscheckii? Scopulicola crosses?
Are there any other alkaloids present which may change the effect of each?
 
I think san pedro and peruvian are much the same. Don't know about any of the others I think you're best sticking to those two.

There's about half a dozen other alkaloids present but if you're eating the cactus the only one you'll notice above the overwhelming nausea is the mescaline.
 
Hmmm. This forum- http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanic...ychedelics/58379-cactus-potency-question.html, seems to say bridgesii is more potent because of MAOI's it contains but as they both seem intersting and bridgesii is pretty both seems like a good idea.
However (i have to go with experiences here because of a lack of anything else) they all say bridgesii causes more stomach problems... maybe chuck in san pedro as well because it might be easier to ease myself into the cactus experience. Though in saying that i've heard its very hard to bad trip on cacti.
 
Always heard that Peruvianus is more potent than Pachanoi, but why don't you go look for the alkaloid content tables?

Some of those experimental results are old (doesn't matter that much but perhaps the study was less than ideal?) and of course there is variation so with too few datapoints who can tell?
 
There is no hard rule on this.

Some of the WEAKEST cacti are Puruvian Torch, but there are also some very potent ones that are stronger than your average Pachanoi.

Pachanoi, regular san pedro, actually has the capacity to be the strongest, but there is a lot weaker species that bring down the average.

Brigdessi is perhaps the most powerful experience, but its not just mescaline and it might have more MAOI property....it can produce a scarier darker trip, or a beautiful yet overwhelming one.
 
Peruvian Torch VS San Pedro?

Which is better and what's a good dose for each?
 
Somehow I never got round to ingesting Mescaline and think it's been too long.
 
I have only eaten San Pedro several times, never had P. Torch, but my understanding is that they are fairly similar in both effects and doses.

Torch and Pedro potency will vary depending on the cactus, much like Shrooms. A good rule of thumb is to start with no more than the length of your forearm (or about 12-14") for your first time with either Pedro or Torch.

Make a tea out of it. I don't feel like writing up the tek again as I've done that several times in the past and you can search for it. It's also not that much harder to make a crude or even fairly clean extraction, but also probably not worth it unless you are meaning to impress your friends.
 
I've tried p. torch and achuma. The peruvian torch felt cleaner, but the achuma felt stronger. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I think there were a lot more extraneous alkaloids in the achuma, which seemed to both potentiate and alter the effects. The extract from the torch, in contrast, was a nice brownish free-flowing powder.

If you're interested in trying mescaline, I guess you should go with the torch, but I preferred the achuma.
 
I have 30g of san pedro somewhere. I was wondering if I should potentiate it. Hate to eat all that cactus only to be disappointed.
 
^I don't know cactus by weight because I've always brewed my teas (or eaten raw cactus, which I don't recommend doing) from fresh cactus. For your first mescaline trip you should take 8-12 inches of cactus, depending on how experienced you are with psychedelics in general. Brewing the tea right also makes a big difference, mainly in how drinkable the brew ends up, but also I've found that I vomit less with a well brewed tea (expect to vomit, no matter how you prep your cactus, but don't worry).



Mescaline is my favorite psychedelic, I've done both San Pedro and Peruvian Torch. One thing that I recall reading on a thread (I think at the shroomery) about Peruvianus seeds is that often times sellers will mislabel cacti as peruvianus. I have noticed in the past that 75% of the time I've done peruvian torch it seemed very strong, and the other times I got almost no high at all. This is all from cacti bought from local plant stores. So that's something to consider, especially if you are buying from a local supplier. Many of the more reputable online businesses sell seeds verified as strains from Peru.

Other than that, I have found the trips from both to be very similar, so I don't think the alkaloids vary much. I have consistently found Peruvian torch to not taste nearly as bad as San Pedro, and also to not be as slimy and thick, which is a big plus, I've always had a much easier time choking down Peruvian Torch tea. The Peruvian Torch also seems to be a bit stronger usually, but I've always read that mescaline content varies more between cacti then between species (there's a thing on erowid about this), so that was likely chance.

I think if I was buying from a local plant store I'd go for San Pedro because it seems easier to identify correctly and more less likely to be mislabeled. If I was buying online, or from a plant store that knew what they were talking about (some plant stores specialize in ethnobotanicals, depending on where you live), I'd get Peruvian Torch.

At the end of the day, how high you get is variable because there's enormous variation in potency between individual cactus specimens. If you use a foot or more and brew the tea right, either cactus should give you an incredible, extremely visual, euphoric high. I usually get a great body high from mescaline too, very relaxed but energetic, and at high doses I can just lay down and see visuals equally vivid to a DMT breakthrough or ayahuasca trip. Mescaline is a beautiful drug.
 
Neither - go for "achuma" or t. bridgesii. IME it's the easiest cactus to despine and gave the strongest trip. 10 inches is plenty for a first experience.
 
^
I've never tried Brigesii but I've heard 5"-6" can be enough... and also that it feels noticeably different from San Pedro, Torch, or pure mescaline. Thoughts? (because I'm certainly open to trying it, but I wouldn't want to do too much my first time with it :) )
 
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