Which dissociatives make you Hole, and which ones don't in your experience?

[Asante]

I recently went all out, Holing on Methoxetamine. I fell completely in love with that place of mind, to Hole, to be a disembodied entity in a dimension of Spirit. I'm homesick already

My question, which dissociatives make you hole, in your experience? And which ones don't?

MXE makes me Hole. Ketamine is famous for it. How about Tiletamine, DXM, 4-MeO-PCP, 3-MeO-PCP and the like?

If to hole is close your eyes and get absorbed into the Realm of Spirit, all earthly things left behind, which Dissociatives do it for you and which ones don't? Which do you consider the best and least suitable for it?

 

[alteredstate8]

Salvia

 

[sekio]

It's dose related.

 

[Asante]

AlteredState8, Salvia isnt a dissociative (NMDA agonist), it acts on the Kappa opioid receptor.

Sekio, does that mean that in your experience all proper dissociatives make you Hole? I heard repeated claims for instance that 3-MeO-PCP though very potent, fails to make a number of people hole. They proceed directly from confusion to blackout stupor. Do you think thats a property of the drug or of their brain chemistry?

 

[digitalpgs]

you can "hole" on nitrous too. tho it's very short, but there definitely is a hole-like state.

Been there done that, pretty fun

 

[Jesusgreen]

AlteredState8, Salvia isnt a dissociative (NMDA agonist), it acts on the Kappa opioid receptor.

Wikipedia classes dissociatives into two sub-classes, NMDA antagonists (the ant is important, NMDA agonists aren't dissociatives! ) and K-opioid agonists.

Although Wikipedia isn't always the most reliable source of information, I very much agree with this classification, and for the longest time I've always hated Erowid's classification of it as an "Atypical psychedelic". The distortion of body image, extreme time dilation, loss of connection with body and/or feeling like you are an object in the room or in another world all fit under the typical image of a dissociative, and not a psychedelic. Just like psychedelics though, dissociatives have different classes, and a K-opioid dissociative will have many differences to a NMDA agonist dissociative.

I think it's all dose related, but the more stimulating dissociatives are harder to hole on. Ketamine is typically going to be one of the easiest, while Methoxetamine's significant DARI (dopamine reuptake inhibition) action seems to make it a lot harder to hole, and often even during the states of extreme dissociation such as holes one can snap out of it at a particular moment rather than appearing practically catatonic as with Ketamine.