When would be a safe time to take st johns wort after rolling?

[Harambulus]

Im reading up all this talk of how its dangerous to mix the two in combo. Im also reading some have used it successfully to post load tho not read when they did so.

I have some SJW coming in the post for depression so wondering how long after rolling it would be safe to take it.

Would taking on the immediate comedown still pose a potential risk? If so how long after to be safe? Maybe the next morning?

Also I just read that johns wort can interact with benzos. If I took some to sleep when would be safe to take the wort?

 

[Folley]

SJW is a weird drug, its a very slight MAOI, a SSRI, DRI, and a lot of other things.

From my research, my hypothesis is that the way it works, is to promote healthy and even blood flow in your brain. I have no information to back this up, but considering that it effects almost all parts of the brain, and the fact that no one knows how it works forsure, I think its plausible

MDMA abuse causes lowered serotonin levels, which results in an uneven blood distribution to your brain, so it could be a quite helpful drug

Right after rolling is not a good idea though, as it is an antidepressant, but taking it the day after, for a couple of days could be helpful to keep you in a good mood.


SJW does interact with a wide varitety of drugs though, opiates and benzos, enactogens and psychedelics. So I would not mix it with anything, and dont take any more than 300mgs of extract, thats all you need, any more wont help anymore lol

 

[Harambulus]

I guess in that case Ill stick with tyrosine (will also be taking 2-fa) and 5-htp for the immediate comedown and benzos then replace benzos with SJW once the benzos wear off?

 

[Folley]

You should get some L-Tryptophan, its probably the best for comedowns. 5-HTP is basically the same thing though, just a lot less effective.

I would stay off the 2-FA, stimulants after MDMA will really fuck you up. MDMA releases serotonin, and stimulants release dopamine. Having lowered levels of either of those will make you feel like shit, and having lowered levels of both will make you feel like COMPLETE SHIT

so wait at least 2-3 days for that...


benzos or weed are the best for a comedown, but only time will heal you up completely, more drugs will just make things worse usually

 

[trance in fraance]

I guess in that case Ill stick with tyrosine (will also be taking 2-fa) and 5-htp for the immediate comedown and benzos then replace benzos with SJW once the benzos wear off?

nah i'd stay away from the tyrosine, since its a dopamine precursor. (well idk maybe you'd need it for the 2-fa, i dont know much about it) but one of the theories on neurotoxicity is that dopamine damages the serotonin receptors, so add in a dopamine precursor could essentially result in increased neurotoxicity.

i've taken SJW the day after candy-flipping and idk if it was just because of how much fun i had or the SJW but i had an amazing afterglow :D

 

[Harambulus]

Well Im not actually taking MDMA but I thought it was simpler to post in here since more ppl would prob have experience taking SJW after having taken MDMA.

Ill be taking mdai and 2-fa- so serotonin on the mdai and dopamine on the 2-fa. Gonna be modest doses of each mind; aiming for a synergistic effect.

Hence the reason for both tyrosine and 5-htp.

 

[Harambulus]

Ye Im aware of this one however I used to take both after mephedrone which seemed to help.

Would waiting a day to supplement with tyrosine prove safer? I could probably last ok just with benzos and htp for the same night and hit up the tyrosine after once the benzos wore off and I would otherwise feel the sting of low dopa :D.

nah i'd stay away from the tyrosine, since its a dopamine precursor. (well idk maybe you'd need it for the 2-fa, i dont know much about it) but one of the theories on neurotoxicity is that dopamine damages the serotonin receptors, so add in a dopamine precursor could essentially result in increased neurotoxicity.

i've taken SJW the day after candy-flipping and idk if it was just because of how much fun i had or the SJW but i had an amazing afterglow :D

 

[Folley]

Well Im not actually taking MDMA but I thought it was simpler to post in here since more ppl would prob have experience taking SJW after having taken MDMA.

Ill be taking mdai and 2-fa- so serotonin on the mdai and dopamine on the 2-fa. Gonna be modest doses of each mind; aiming for a synergistic effect.

Hence the reason for both tyrosine and 5-htp.

I think 4-FA is better for that


Your best bet would be to take benzos directly after the pseudo-roll, and save the SJW and other supplements for the day after

 

[First Bad Comedown]

You should be asking yourself why you are trying so hard to compensate?
What is the real purpose to taking all this stuff the day after rolling?

With the understanding that MDMA is a neurotoxin and that its toxic metabolites take 3-7 days to clear the bloodstream...
What exactly are you trying to do?

Increasing serotonin levels by taking 5-HTP is risky, plain tryptophan is safer because it takes longer to metabolize and cross the BBB.
But a high protein diet in the first two days afterwards should be more than sufficient to recover.
I usually preferred protein smoothies.

Supplementing tyrosine is also crazy, since it can cause bad reactions as well.
And Folley is spot on - increasing dopamine while your serotonin levels are low may INCREASE damage to serotonin axons and terminals.

That implicates St. John's Wort as well.
SJW, like many herbs, has a wide-spread effect on many different neurotransmitters.
This makes it very difficult to study and even more difficult to draw conclusive results.

It causes a very modest increase in serotonin in the prefrontal cortex, say about 10% above normal.
Its effects on dopamine in this region are more pronounced. I cannot recall the exact number but it was about a 40% increase.
This is very likely a key reason for its anti-depressant properties in severely depressed patients.
And that is the demographic that actually responds to SJW - SEVERE depression.

But it is in the PFC where serotonin nerves are the thinnest and furthest away from their origin in the brainstem that MDMA does the most damage.
They are the first axons to go, and the last to recover. Some presumably never do.
And since increased dopamine may be a contributor to axonal injury - doesn't it make sense that increasing dopamine in the PFC just after MDMA use is a VERY VERY dumb idea?

I highly recommend against this combo.
It could turn out VERY badly.
And if you have experienced really strange effects from doing this in the past, this is evidence that it is having a strong effect.
Right?

SJW also increases dopamine in the amygdala!
This is true insanity for some people - pure rage.
For several hours.

Serious shit my friend.
Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.
After rolling for sure.

I tried SJW during my long recovery from Serotonin Syndrome.
I bought a very potent version with high levels of hyperforin.
This first time it was intoxicating.

I felt drunk, warm, euphoric, dizzy....happy.
Sex was great that night.
I couldn't believe how strong its effects were.
That was the last time it was a positive experience.

I tried the same exact dose many times over a two week period, taking them once per day for at least a week (as directed).
I never achieved pleasant effects again.
And there were some VERY angry nights those two weeks.
We are talking mania without end!

The odd thing is that my wife also lost her shit even after trying a milder version of SJW.
And she didn't suffer serotonin syndrome like I did.
So I suspect that in former MDMA users, increasing dopamine in the amygdala can be a VERY negative experience.

Again, the first time was really fun for me.
But after that - all down hill.
I still haven't tried them again!

Very good advice from Folley in here - but SJW does a lot more than increase bloodflow.
Ginko taken daily for months is supposed to do that - as does regular exercise....and racetams.
That is a post-load you should really consider - Piracetam and exercise.

And he is right about benzos.
They are quite safe for short term use and will eliminate some of the post roll ickiness.
Ketamine is touted as a great option on the Advanced boards and research suggests it causes synaptogenesis in the PFC.
Although its anti-depressant effects are not lasting....
The thought is that it may reduce neurotoxicity in this region of the brain if taken after amphetamines.
With all drugs dosage is key - so be careful.

And forget the goddamn SJW!
And 5-HTP.

 

[Harambulus]

I think 4-FA is better for that


Your best bet would be to take benzos directly after the pseudo-roll, and save the SJW and other supplements for the day after

Ye id been itnerested in trying that but preferd the idea of being able to scale my dopa/serotonin accordingly.

My supplier says they dont have 2-fa in stock anyhow so seems I might be going with 4-fa after all.

 

[Harambulus]

stuff...

Hmm Im not sure about your recommendation of- screw 5-htp take ketamine instead! lol

times ive taken ketamine when it wore off I had a very distinct post operative pulsing headache feeling for a day after which kind of defeats the object of using it for a comedown imo.

5-htp on the other hand I find wonderfully benign.

 

[TearItDown]

As I've said in older threads on SJW, there have been basically no redeeming qualities reported about this substance. Just don't bother. lol