when does the hell end?

[Le Junk]

I've been using opiates (hydrocodone) for roughly 5 years now. I've consistently taken an average of at least 20 mg.s per day without any time off during that 5 year period. The honeymoon stage ended about a year and a half ago, yet I continued taking them anyway. It's been nothing but misery since...like a constant state of coming down. Anyway, I've completely washed my hands of that trailor park trash and have been opiate free for nearly 3 weeks now. My questions below are addressed to anyone who has been in a similair situation and is now opiate free;

when does the constant feeling of panic end?
when does the depression end?
when does the irritation end?
when does the restless leg syndrome end?
when does the insomnia end?
and most importantly, when does your sex drive return?

I'm looking for true experiences here and not conjecture. I appreciate in advance any genuine responses.

Le Junk

 

[Cane2theLeft]

It really varies for a lot of people, it sounds like you're experiencing some PAWS and there are a lot of things you can do to reduce the PAWS symptoms and get back to normal... eating healthy, exercising, avoiding sugar and caffeine, relying on a support system who understands what you're going through and much more.

Terence Gorski has written *a lot* about PAWS and I would highly recommend reading him.

Personally I used hydrocodone and morphine (primarily, oxycodone as well) for about 3.5 years and the last 6 months or so I was up to about 150mg of oral hydrocodone or morphine for chronic pain. I experienced many of the symptoms you mentioned but they didn't last that long... especially the sex drive, as soon as I was w/ding I was perma-erect and would hump a tree if it looked at my right.

Since you were on such a low dose and its already been 3 weeks of abstinence, it makes me think maybe the anxiety, depression, irritation, insomnia, etc. are not just a result of using hydrocodone (that was your DOC iirc, right?). I think perhaps you were medicating these symptoms or the same issues that caused these problems also lead you to use. Either way I highly recommend you talk to a counselor or therapist to get to the heart of what's going on.

I think this is better suited for the dark side and you'll get more responses there so I'll toss it over.

Just remember, if the only thing that changed in your life is your drug use, the things that lead you to use are still there. You have to address those issues and make changes for this to be sustainable.

Take care, le Junk.

--> TDS

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I've been using opiates (hydrocodone) for roughly 5 years now. I've consistently taken an average of at least 20 mg.s per day without any time off during that 5 year period. The honeymoon stage ended about a year and a half ago, yet I continued taking them anyway. It's been nothing but misery since...like a constant state of coming down. Anyway, I've completely washed my hands of that trailor park trash and have been opiate free for nearly 3 weeks now. My questions below are addressed to anyone who has been in a similair situation and is now opiate free;

when does the constant feeling of panic end?
when does the depression end?
when does the irritation end?
when does the restless leg syndrome end?
when does the insomnia end?
and most importantly, when does your sex drive return?

I'm looking for true experiences here and not conjecture. I appreciate in advance any genuine responses.

Le Junk

I used heroin for a whole year. I've been away from heroin for 19 months now, but I have been on Suboxone the entire time. I cannot tell you what CTing will be like, but I'll share my experiences with you.

Constant feeling of panic/depression - It got better when I took Suboxone, but without Suboxone (I have gone 3 weeks w/o heroin, in the middle of being physically dependent on it) I would say it took at least 3-5 days to get "back" to feeling half-way "normal" without constant panic or depression.

Opiates make one feel irritable, and the comedown is even worse. The irritation will end, and your sexual drive will be closer to normal, when your body becomes used to the natural level of testosterone you have. Full agonist opiates repress your testosterone. Feeling irritable is a part of opiate WD and a part of puberty, because you are becoming emotionally adjusted to having a higher level of testosterone in your body.

I would say that it could take more/less time for some people, I just don't remember for myself. Since I was taking Suboxone, I probably felt better within the first week, but it could take longer if you're doing it without maintenance.

I only had RLS when I wasn't on Suboxone, but when I was coming down full force. If you still have it 3 weeks after cessation, I have no idea. I didn't get RLS until the last time I sustained from heroin, for whatever reason. I had probably used the most consistently for the longest at that point. In the beginning I tried to get off a lot to no avail.

I had insomnia before heroin use. Have you tried some hypnotic benzos or antihistamines? They can be a true life saver for sleep. Be careful only to use them for sleep, or to relieve day time anxiety. Just be very responsible in knowing when to stop taking them (if you start using them daily or the use gets out of hand, or you use more than you expected, etc.). If you can stick to using benzos once to three times a week I would say that could really help you.

If you don't want to use benzos (many people fear replacing addictions that way, it's a good thing to avoid benzos if you are likely to do this) then I would go to the pharmacy and buy some OTC doxylamine succinate, or diphenhydramine hcl (if benadryl works well for you for sleep).

Have you tried working on your sleep hygiene?

It really varies for a lot of people, it sounds like you're experiencing some PAWS and there are a lot of things you can do to reduce the PAWS symptoms and get back to normal... eating healthy, exercising, avoiding sugar and caffeine, relying on a support system who understands what you're going through and much more.

Terence Gorski has written *a lot* about PAWS and I would highly recommend reading him.

Great advice Cane! I also want to stress that diet and exercise are crucial, even for people not fighting addiction, to relieve many of the symptoms LeJunk is asking about.

Caffeine is a varied experience for people, some may like it, but I also avoid it because it is also physically addictive. Not in the sense that many people get addicted to it, but if you become habituated to having coffee in the morning on a regular basis, or consuming soft drinks that contain caffeine for lunch, you can also experience withdrawal symptoms which can aggravate PAWS, or acute WD of most kinds of drugs. It'll for sure make you irritable at the very least.

Exercise is also a crucial thing for feeling better. The endorphins from physical exercise can really alleviate how you feel, even if it's just temporary. Sometimes just a few minutes of feeling slightly regular is all you need to know you're headed in the right direction.

 

[morphonorconic]

Though I am not Opiate free, I am using much much less these days as compared with about a year ago. Just for reference and not at all to dicksize I rarely exceed 40-50 mg's of Hydrocodone and only Hydrocodone, whereas a year ago a good dose for a fun day would consist of hundreds of milligrams of Morphine and Hydro/Oxycodone, H, whatever.

My point being that I was using quite a bit, had quit several times but never abstained for more than a week or a week and a half before diving back in. The depression and misery just seemed to get worse the longer I went without the Opiates, and despite the fact that I knew I would feel better if I gave it more time, I simply could not.

I moved [about nine months ago] to a new town where I didn't and still don't have access to any drugs whatsoever. After I exhausted the supply I had brought with me, which didn't take long at all, I had little choice but to sober up. And though I have had a Hydrocodone prescription, I no longer really had the option to abuse Opiates. It took months and months of not feeling right, experiencing intense depression, anxiety, anhedonia, extreme malaise/boredom, plus I didn't like and still don't like the place I am living, which made it all that much worse. But I forced myself to be more on point with things like exercise, eating better, picking back up old hobbies and sports, attempting to practice positive thinking in general (I tend toward pessimism), etc, etc and after a while (months) my mind and body finally began to balance out.

I would say your libido should return very soon, even before the other symptoms go away, which is usually one positive aspect of withdrawl and/or post-withdrawl, though it can take longer for some than for others. For me, I get to the point where I absolutely can't think about anything other than sex, and until I have sex or masturbate, I am completely worthless.

I don't know what your position is on other drugs or drug use in the interest of aiding your recovery, but for me, Benzodiazepines are an invaluable resource in those circumstances. Xanax, and to a lesser extent Lorazepam certainly were a huge help for me in getting through it all. Another, if not already known, and if not obvious, is Loperamide (Immodium). It's not only useful as an anti-diarrheal, but can also help you feel better in general, as it is a peripherally active mu-Opioid agonist.

Good luck! You'll feel better soon.

 

[Le Junk]

I want to thank the above posters for their responses.

I've just been prescribed Ambien to help with my sleep. I started taking it about 2 weeks ago. I know it's only masking the situation, but there's no more insomnia or RLS. I told my doctor that I had periods of insomnia with no mention of the obvious. I do drink alot of caffeine during the day which I will now back off of considerably. I do appreciate the insight into PAWS. From a quick glance, I would say alot of what I'm experiencing is coming from that syndrome. I do feel periods of "normal", but they only last for an hour or so before fading back into misery. For now, I'll start a good diet and start exercising more. I'm 45 years old, so that could take alot of initiative. I'll keep you posted. Always open to more advice and experiences.

Le Junk

 

[OC80's]

I make sure I exercise before I use, and I know for a fact that it will help you. When you exercise your body releases endorphins. These are like natural "opiates" your body makes, it will definitely help with the depression. Make sure you do some every day even if its just a quick 10 minute run outside. I promise it will hep!

 

[Le Junk]

I make sure I exercise before I use, and I know for a fact that it will help you. When you exercise your body releases endorphins. These are like natural "opiates" your body makes, it will definitely help with the depression. Make sure you do some every day even if its just a quick 10 minute run outside. I promise it will hep!

I've been walking about a 1/2-3/4 mile a day for the last 3 days. I don't expect to feel any real benefits for a week or so, but I'll continue to do so. Thanks.

Le Junk

 

[JohnnyTruant]

It's a tough ride, brother...I have had a similar course as you -- several years of steady (40-80mg of HC, along with a few other things). I can't get off the train, cause I feel like hell, but when I am forced to reduce to a lesser amount, I seem to make it by OK for a bit. I tried quitting cold turkey, and it was the most bone wrenching, hellish ordeal I have ever been through.

Using now just to keep the 'sick' away. It sucks, but it's better than the alternatives. It makes me sad to read these kids asking about 'the nest way to get smacked off of an OC 80' or shit like that, cause I know that most of them are going to end up in a bad way...

There's definitely nothing cool about any of this anymore. Good luck bro. If you want to talk let me know.

that's all,


JT

 

[Le Junk]

Are there any vitamins or supplements I should be taking to expedite a faster recovery?

Le Junk

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I want to thank the above posters for their responses.

I've just been prescribed Ambien to help with my sleep. I started taking it about 2 weeks ago. I know it's only masking the situation, but there's no more insomnia or RLS. I told my doctor that I had periods of insomnia with no mention of the obvious. I do drink alot of caffeine during the day which I will now back off of considerably. I do appreciate the insight into PAWS. From a quick glance, I would say alot of what I'm experiencing is coming from that syndrome. I do feel periods of "normal", but they only last for an hour or so before fading back into misery. For now, I'll start a good diet and start exercising more. I'm 45 years old, so that could take alot of initiative. I'll keep you posted. Always open to more advice and experiences.

Le Junk

Be careful to avoid taking Ambien regularly. I am glad that it is helping you out a little though.

When you start feeling better you'll have a lot of initiative to exercise and eat right, I know I did. It feels like you have a second chance at life almost. I say almost because having a near death experience is more like that in reality but quitting opiates is safer overall and probably less traumatic.

You say you feel normal for about an hour at a time - focus on that time and allowing yourself the freedom to feel "OK" during that time. If you have to simply remove yourself from external stress. You will have other "hours" of feeling normal when you exercise - at least this is what I have experienced.

I also get a lot of energy/motivation out of eating fresh fruits/vegetables.

Try to prevent yourself from focusing on negative feelings/thoughts, and if you have effects of having a high blood pressure (hot/cold flashes for example) you could take l-arginine. I would also make sure you reduce sodium in your diet if you have high blood pressure or symptoms of that nature (like hot/cold flashes/feverish feeling).

Gotta go for now! Hope you're feeling better soon.

Are there any vitamins or supplements I should be taking to expedite a faster recovery?

Le Junk

A good multi vitamin would help. I would also suggest whey protein if you can stomach it.

I also already suggested l-arginine.

Finally, get omega 3 supplements (ideally 1-2 grams per day, I would also suggest a 4:1 ratio of EPA to DHA).