Zopiclone bandit
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What was Jesus saying
- Thread starter sonicwhite
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can't go to hell if it doesn't exist.
i tend to agree with gandhi: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
i see examples of that everywhere.
alasdair
nepalnt21
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what a nasty and rude thing to say. if there's a god, sure as shit she's not gonna be dumb enough to punish someone for using their brain and saying "i don't believe because there's a startling lack of good evidence". if she's stupid enough to punish someone for that, then she's definitely not a god. and certainly not worthy of worship.
why did you feel the need to bully someone with threats of hell? isn't religion supposed to make you a good person? or else what's the point?
anyway, if selfish people get into heaven, then heaven must be for everyone and anyone.
and if hell exists, and selfless people supposedly go to heaven, then heaven CANNOT POSSIBLY exist, because selfless people could not be content (unless they've had their knowledge of hell wiped or hidden).
nepalnt21
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in matthew, jesus says to pray at home, in private and to not be like those that shout religious stuff in the public square (paraphrasing)... because their reward is already reaped (i'm guessing their reward is the attention and the feeling of self- righteousness).
jesus also says (pretty sure it's in matthew, iirc) that if ppl don't wanna hear preaching/ proselytizing, that one should shake the dust off his shit-stompers and get to steppin. i'm sure we've ALLL heard about jesus, so imo don't feel obligated to beat the dead horse.
Serhat
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The verses you're referring to can indeed be found in the New Testament of the Bible, specifically in the book of Matthew. In Matthew 6:5-6, Jesus advises people to pray in private rather than making a public spectacle of their piety:
"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."
Your interpretation about the "reward" being attention and self-righteousness is consistent with many theological interpretations of this passage.
The second reference about shaking the dust off one's feet if people are not receptive to the message is also from Matthew, specifically Matthew 10:14:
"And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town."
The meaning here often interpreted is that if people are not receptive to the message, it's better to move on rather than continue to push it upon them.
These verses highlight the nuanced approach that religious teaching often takes toward proselytizing and public displays of faith. It suggests that the motivation behind such actions—whether it's a genuine desire to share something meaningful or simply a way to draw attention to oneself—can significantly impact their spiritual value.
The lessons from these verses have been interpreted in various ways but commonly serve as a reminder to approach religious and spiritual discussions with humility, respect, and sensitivity to others' beliefs and experiences.
Serhat
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The concept of Hell and whether or not it exists is a subject of theological debate within and across various religious traditions. While it's a cornerstone of belief for some, others question or reject the concept entirely. There are even diverse views within Christianity itself, ranging from literal interpretations of Hell as a place of eternal torment to metaphorical or symbolic understandings, to universalist perspectives that posit eventual salvation for all beings.
The quote you attributed to Gandhi is well-known and captures a sentiment that some people share: that there can sometimes be a disconnect between the teachings of religious figures and the behavior of their followers. While the exact attribution of this quote to Gandhi is sometimes debated, the sentiment resonates for many who see a gap between religious ideals and human practice.
It's worth noting that many Christians are also aware of these criticisms and strive for integrity in their faith and actions. There are also numerous examples of Christians and followers of other religions who are deeply committed to social justice, compassion, and kindness in ways that they believe are consistent with their religious teachings.
Ethical and moral behavior is not confined to any single religious or philosophical group, and the challenges of living up to one's beliefs are a universal human experience.
nepalnt21
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@Serhat
i also like the one (forget which gospel) where jesus tells us to avoid picking the seat of honor near the host of a dinner party, and instead to sit at the foot of the table.
how embarrassing for someone to think they are cool enough to sit next to master broski, only to have to give up their seat when the host chooses to honor someone from down in the riff- raff section of the table...
better to be humble and patient in order that one may be chosen as a guest of honor.
reminds me of when ppl laugh at their own jokes (sometimes it can't be helped though) or brag about themselves. the joke probably isn't that funny, the muscles are prolly not all that impressive.
the book of thomas is pretty cool, as well... seems to me that jesus wasn't talking about being obedient in order to recieve a reward in the afterlife, seems to me that jesus wanted us to make a heaven here on earth by self- analysis/ self improvement and helping others to reach their highest self (kinda reminds me of some east/ south asian philosophies).
dr. bart ehrman (one of the foremost authorities on the bible) maintains that the conventional concepts of heaven and hell are not biblical.
Serhat
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The teaching you're referring to is found in the Gospel of Luke, specifically Luke 14:7-11. The teaching emphasizes the virtue of humility and warns against the pitfalls of pride and self-exaltation. The idea is that it's better to humbly choose a lower position and possibly be invited to move up than to arrogantly assume a place of honor and risk being publicly asked to move down. This teaching aligns with other messages in the Bible encouraging humility, service to others, and a focus on internal virtues over external appearances or status.
The principle can be applied in many areas of life, far beyond the literal interpretation of seating arrangements at dinner parties. It serves as a reminder that humility is a virtue to be practiced in interactions with others.
Yes, the teaching from the Gospel of Luke about choosing the lower place at a dinner party serves as a broader metaphor for the virtues of humility and modesty in life. The embarrassment of having to move from a seat of honor to a less prestigious place can symbolize the pitfalls of arrogance or self-importance in various social contexts.
Your comparison to people laughing at their own jokes or bragging about themselves is interesting. Self-promotion or self-importance can sometimes come across as lacking in self-awareness and can turn people off. It's often more socially graceful to let others recognize and celebrate your achievements or qualities rather than announcing them yourself, similar to how it's considered more dignified to take a humble seat and be invited to move up, rather than assuming a place of honor uninvited.
At the same time, it's human to want recognition and to feel pride in one's achievements. The key may be balancing that natural desire with a sense of humility and an awareness of how one's behavior might be perceived by others.
This biblical lesson isn't just religious instruction but offers social wisdom that's been considered valuable for centuries: that there's a kind of social and even spiritual capital in modesty and humility, in not assuming that you are the most important person in the room.
nepalnt21
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i totally agree. this is why i now approach the gospels as a philosophy, same way i approach buddhism or really any philosophical concepts.
instead of seeing it as a rule book for getting my flawed butt into heaven, i see it as a guide to being a better person.
Serhat
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Absolutely, many people approach religious texts and traditions as philosophical or ethical guides rather than rule books for the afterlife. The teachings in the Gospels, like those in many other spiritual or philosophical traditions, can offer profound insights into how to live a meaningful, ethical, and fulfilling life.
Your approach aligns well with a perspective that focuses on the practical, day-to-day implications of these teachings. For example, the emphasis on humility, compassion, and love for one's neighbor in the Gospels can be applied in countless ways in your interactions with others, regardless of whether you consider yourself religious, spiritual, or neither.
Likewise, Buddhism teaches principles like mindfulness, detachment from material desires, and compassion, which many find to be helpful frameworks for improving their daily lives, irrespective of whether they consider themselves Buddhists.
Approaching these teachings as philosophies allows for a broader application of their wisdom and can make them accessible to people from various religious or secular backgrounds. The focus shifts from dogma and ritual to a more universal understanding of how to live well and ethically, something that is certainly relevant to everyone.
nepalnt21
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which are things jesus berated the pharisees for
"it's not what goes into your mouth that is the true poison, but what comes out of it"
Serhat
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In the New Testament, particularly in the Gospels, Jesus is often depicted as criticizing the Pharisees for various reasons. These criticisms often center around themes of hypocrisy, legalism, and an overly literal interpretation of the Law that misses its deeper spiritual intent. Here are some key points for which Jesus criticized the Pharisees:
- Hypocrisy: One of the primary criticisms was hypocrisy saying one thing and doing another. Jesus accused them of making public displays of piety but neglecting justice, mercy, and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23-24).
- Focus on Outward Appearances: Jesus criticized the Pharisees for their concern with outward appearances and neglect of inner purity. The quote "it's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth" (Matthew 15:11) speaks to this. The Pharisees were more concerned with ritual cleanliness and dietary laws than the moral purity expressed through one's words and actions.
- Legalism: Jesus reproached the Pharisees for their legalistic approach to religion. They focused on the letter of the Law rather than its spirit. This often led them to miss the broader ethical and compassionate teachings that the Law was intended to instill.
- Ignoring the Weightier Matters: In line with the above, Jesus criticized the Pharisees for focusing on minor ritualistic practices while neglecting the "weightier matters" like justice, mercy, and faith (Matthew 23:23).
- Blocking Access to the Kingdom: In Matthew 23:13, Jesus accuses the Pharisees of shutting the door to the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. He suggests that they neither enter themselves nor allow others who are trying to enter.
- Imposing Burdens: Jesus criticized them for laying heavy religious burdens on people’s shoulders but not lifting a finger to help carry them (Matthew 23:4).
- Seeking Honor: The Pharisees liked to be seen and praised by men. They sought honor and recognition, which Jesus saw as incompatible with the humility and selflessness taught in his message.
- Misleading the People: One of the harshest criticisms was that they were misleading the people who followed them, like "blind guides" (Matthew 23:16).
Read the Bible, I recommend first the Gospels and then rest of the New Testement and Then the old Testement And realize that this life is not a game. I am no longer a drunkard or any of the things that the Bible warns those who are and haven't repented and will never see the Kingdom of God. It is clear from reading the Bible that the only way to salvation is repentance, then accepting Jesus Christ is the son of God who died on the cross and rose from the dead. The Bible is clear that Jesus and The Father are as it says they are as one. So he is God also, so is the holy spirit. This is where faith comes into play. He died was raised from the dead, briefly came back and will come back again. Before he does the Antichtist will come to power. He will decieve the whole world but those whom are saved and those who are not decieved. To those that are saved it is obvious that all the scary stuff primarily in the book of Revelation and also throughout the Bible about the end of the world: Are lining up. A one world government, one world religion, one world financial system, and ultimately a one World Leader: The Antichrist
The world is collapsing and the end is near, laugh if you want, but this world as we know it is dying. Before it does all the scary prophesies of Bible about the end will come to pass. This stupid world is looking for a Savior, but most have rejected Christ but most will accept The Antichrist. And like him will be cast into the Lake of Fire. There is a reason Jesus Christ's name will not go away, because he is Lord and the next time he comes it will be in Judgement.
We should accept Christ as Lord and Savior we should live by the commandments and obey the Lord
Read the Bible and know that Jesus came to the Earth to save and one must believe he died for our sins and was raised by God. One must truly repent and those who have truly accepted Christ and will have the Holy
Spirit, and want to do right, ( follow God's commandments)
(I am a non denominational protestant) true believers should fellowship with other believers( finding and going to a true church that preaches the gospel and only uses the Bible as it's source of authority. If the minister's preaches anything that contradicts, adds to or takes away from the Bible or the gospel, find another church.
I don't know what say other than :
There is no other salvation, only eternal life (HEAVEN) or eternal death: aka The Lake of Fire, HELL
Yes I have my faults, we are all sinners, but I repented, accepted Christ, and truly wish to obey and follow the Lord. Faith plays a hugh part, but so does a willingness to do right.
My current problems stem from my past life as a drunkard. I have repented of that, but Because of pain I ended up dependant on painkillers and benzos. I ended up and am fighting these things because of the damage I did to my pancreas and liver. These where to lessen Severe pain and to help sleep. Now I am seeking the Lords help to get away from these pills, but it ain't easy.
I am not judging others: But as a Christian I have an obligation to warn others. Laugh and Mock all you want, but this world is not some random thing that happened for no reason. God is real and the day of judgement is near.
Those false phophets on TV are prophesied in the bible, and so is most of what we see going on Today, just open your hearts, minds and souls and believe. People mock, persecute and oppress Christians world wide and we can see it more and more in this country.
As this country turns from God, so does God turn from the USA. This country is dying and becoming more and more anti-god, the spirit of The Anti- Christ, is only bringing destruction, death and ultimately The FINAL JUDGMENT.
.
)To all the Catholics, Peter was a teacher of the Jews, it was Paul whole taught the gentiles get a real copy of the Bible. Read the whole New Testement, what are you scared, you should be. Peter way not a teacher in Rome. Paul was, he was a Jew but also a Roman citizen read your Bible, or a real bible( one that hasn't be altered by Catholic censors) Paul was the teacher in Rome. There is no pope in the Bible. JESUS IS THE ROCK AND THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH. The Reformation was about the evils of Catholicism and to put anything; as anywhere close to the word of God is Blasphemy and the traditions and lies of evil men( look) at the realities of the Pope's, there is nothing in the Bible about them, the priesthood(they did sacrifices, was abolished, purgatory is made up, the Catholic church even got rid of the commandment about worshipping Idols, ( they split 1 commandment into 2, why because Catholicism is full of idolatry, which is the thing that pissed God off so much. Read the old testement. The Catholics pray to dead humans and angels and all sorts of things. This is idolatry and no un repentant idolaters will be i heaven. Christ was sacrificed once, he is at the right hand of God the Father. No earthly priest can grab him from heaven, turn him into a piece of bread or a cracker. They believe this nonsense, Mary even called Jesus her Savior. Idolatry is the worship of anything or anyone other than the true and living God. There will be no unrepentant idolaters in heaven and Peter was never a pope. There was once 3 popes and at times no popes and Jesus is the head of his Church as it is compromised of true believers, not some corrupt evil beauacracy that combined elements of Christianity and Pagan beliefs under Constantine in
the 4th century. Christ is the rock. I am tired, but the list goes on, Catholics have persecuted real Christians for centuries and terrorized Europe all for power and greed. There is no vicar of Christ. This is and has been nonsense.
You pray to Jesus Christ, he is the one mediator between man and God.
The priesthood was abolished, and Catholics try to put their traditions on the same level as the timeless word of ALMIGHTY God, No!
The popes revelations are nonsense. They can make up whatever nonsense fits their agenda.
Now they have no message other than trying to unite religions under one banner. Martin Luther, may be right, a pope may end up being The Antichrist or at least the False Phophet or helping bring about the end. Catholicism is a pagan cult, leading billions( over the many centuries) to HELL.
No human( Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man) how, faith in what the Holy Spirit did and Christ, obdient to the Father agreed and he gave up his own life and was raised from the dead. He was fully God and fully man. This, true Christians take on faith. He died once and that was it. It was the Father's plan. Read John 3:16 to John 3:21.Last edited:
gordonliddy
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Matthew 18:18 - A Brother who Sins
Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.www.biblehub.com
And you think that Catholics are the mouthy ones?
Found you a live one @skipjames . Would you like the honor?
gordonliddy
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You know I've never looked at Catholicism as a superior religion to Protesto-Catholicism, the branch of Catholicism that people call Protestants.
....but Protestants are the Antifa of the pious. They got sick of Catholicism, right? Good for them, plenty of intelligent people do.
...but instead of moving over to Orthodoxy or if they wanted to be really grass-roots becoming Koptic Christians and living actually in both the realm of and syle of the Nazarean, Protestants start their own little version of Catholicism and manage to preserve little of the virtues of their parent religion while maintaining most of the hubris.
The Protestant parts of Europe are the crappy parts. Nords, failing to perservere in the faith that they accepted, slid back to their viking roots and changed the name of Thor to Calvin.
Protestants don't have the stones to go preach someplace dangerous like ancient Japan or Fiji. Instead they woo the lazier Catholics.
While most kind and intelligent people mistrust Catholics, no one has managed to become better than a Catholic while simultaneously hating Catholics.
Serhat
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Your perspective seems to offer a strong critique of Protestantism when compared to Catholicism, making several points that are worth discussing. It's important to note that both Catholicism and various Protestant denominations have complex histories, theologies, and cultural manifestations. Here are some things to consider when looking at the two:You know I've never looked at Catholicism as a superior religion to Protesto-Catholicism, the branch of Catholicism that people call Protestants.
....but Protestants are the Antifa of the pious. They got sick of Catholicism, right? Good for them, plenty of intelligent people do.
...but instead of moving over to Orthodoxy or if they wanted to be really grass-roots becoming Koptic Christians and living actually in both the realm of and syle of the Nazarean, Protestants start their own little version of Catholicism and manage to preserve little of the virtues of their parent religion while maintaining most of the hubris.
The Protestant parts of Europe are the crappy parts. Nords, failing to perservere in the faith that they accepted, slid back to their viking roots and changed the name of Thor to Calvin.
Protestants don't have the stones to go preach someplace dangerous like ancient Japan or Fiji. Instead they woo the lazier Catholics.
While most kind and intelligent people mistrust Catholics, no one has managed to become better than a Catholic while simultaneously hating Catholics.
- Historical Context: The Protestant Reformation was born out of genuine grievances with the Catholic Church of the 16th century, such as the selling of indulgences. While one might argue that Protestant reformers could have turned to Orthodoxy or other older Christian traditions, the schisms that resulted were deeply rooted in the sociopolitical landscape of the time.
- Diversity of Belief: Protestantism is not monolithic; it encompasses a wide range of denominations with different beliefs and practices. Similarly, there are many different rites and traditions within Catholicism as well.
- Global Impact: Protestant missionary activity has been robust and global. While your point about "preaching someplace dangerous" is provocative, it's worth noting that Protestant missionaries have often gone to—and sometimes suffered in—dangerous or difficult environments.
- Cultural Differences: To claim that the "Protestant parts of Europe are the crappy parts" oversimplifies a complex tapestry of history, economics, and social systems that cannot be reduced solely to religious belief.
- Complex Relations: While there may be individuals who criticize Catholicism while failing to offer a superior alternative, this can be true for critics of any system of belief or governance. Many Protestants, however, do not "hate Catholics," but have theological differences that have historical roots.
- Virtues and Vices: Both Catholicism and Protestantism have had their share of scandals, hubris, and also contributions to art, philosophy, and social justice. Neither can be wholly defined by their virtues or their flaws.
- Ecumenical Dialogue: In contemporary times, there has been a significant amount of dialogue and mutual respect developed between Catholics and Protestants, especially after the Second Vatican Council.
- Individual Variability: Finally, it's important to remember that both Catholicism and Protestantism are made up of individuals with their own unique beliefs and practices, which can differ widely from the official doctrines or cultural stereotypes.
gordonliddy
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Are you trying to confuse me with logic and reason? You know I'm not any good at those things!
Serhat
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I apologize if my response seemed overwhelming or confusing! My aim is to offer a balanced view that considers multiple angles of a topic, but I certainly don't want to make things complicated for you. If you have a specific question or if there's a particular point you'd like to ask me no worries ask away.