Pirrracetamol
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2025
- Messages
- 218
Meth....but don't be like that guy
Dexamphetamine for me - the only stimulant I find to really help me with focus without the compulsive redose urges.
I would believe you yeah, because I know you to be an honest manWould you believe me if I tell you that I have never tried dexamphetamine? Not even once, not even a single mg in my life...
I used to be a big choline PAM supporter but, damn dude the clinical research on the long term cardiac effects of TMAO (trimethylamine n-oxide) intersecting with the pretty clear observation that increased cholinergic activity leads to increased levels of endogenously produced/metabolized TMAO, it paints quite an ominous picture. I have stayed away from frequent use, but I am absolutely fascinated by cholinergic hallucinogens which I super rarely hear people speak about for some reason.I would add Citicoline (CDP‑Choline) + L‑Tyrosine + caffeine - great for mental concentration, works much better than I expected
Glad you flagged this, I'd not come across this issue before!I used to be a big choline PAM supporter but, damn dude the clinical research on the long term cardiac effects of TMAO (trimethylamine n-oxide) intersecting with the pretty clear observation that increased cholinergic activity leads to increased levels of endogenously produced/metabolized TMAO, it paints quite an ominous picture. I have stayed away from frequent use, but I am absolutely fascinated by cholinergic hallucinogens which I super rarely hear people speak about for some reason.
Dietary choline is metabolized by gut microbiota into trimethylamine (TMA), which the liver oxidizes into trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO). Elevated TMAO levels are associated with cardiovascular risks like atherosclerosis and heart failure, by promoting cardiac fibrosis, adverse remodeling, and inflammation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key Cardiac Effects of TMAO
- Atherosclerosis: TMAO alters cholesterol metabolism and promotes macrophage cholesterol accumulation, creating foam cells in arterial walls. [1]
- Thrombosis: It enhances platelet reactivity, increasing the risk of blood clots and thrombosis. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Heart Failure: Elevated circulating TMAO exacerbates cardiac hypertrophy and fibrosis in heart failure models. [1]
- Acute Electrophysiological Changes: Studies have shown that acute exposure to TMAO briefly alters ionic currents, such as increasing calcium currents and shortening the action potential duration in cardiomyocytes. [1]
Clinical Context and Interventions
The biological relationship between choline, TMAO, and cardiovascular outcomes is complex: [1, 2, 3]
For more information on the metaorganismal pathways of this metabolite, you can review published studies on PubMed Central (PMC) or Nature.
- While some studies link dietary choline and its gut-derived metabolites to cardiovascular events, others show that plasma TMAO levels are a marker rather than a direct causative agent for disease in all healthy populations. [1, 2]
- Certain research highlights that TMAO levels can drive specific immune system changes, like differentiating Th17 cells and causing systemic inflammation. [1]
- Medications like metformin and targeted microbiota inhibitors (e.g., DMB) have been shown to suppress TMA-producing gut microbes, significantly reducing choline-diet-induced serum TMAO in experimental models. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Is occasional use safe?
Yes, occasional use of choline supplements or choline-rich foods is generally considered safe for the heart. [1, 2] The cardiovascular risks associated with TMAO—such as arterial plaque formation, systemic inflammation, and cardiac tissue changes—primarily stem from chronic, prolonged elevations rather than temporary, isolated spikes. [1, 2]
Chronicity Matters for Heart Risk
- Temporary Fluctuations: Eating a single choline-heavy meal or taking an occasional supplement causes a brief rise in blood TMAO levels. Healthy kidneys quickly and efficiently filter this out of your system, returning your blood levels to baseline within hours. [1, 2]
- No Sudden Damage: The negative cardiac effects of TMAO (like endothelial dysfunction or tissue remodeling) are gradual processes driven by cumulative, day-in, day-out exposure. An occasional spike does not trigger these chronic diseases. [1, 2]
The Delivery Mechanism Is Crucial
The physical form of the choline you ingest significantly impacts how much TMAO your gut bacteria can actually produce: [1]
- Free Choline Supplements: Forms like choline bitartrate (frequently found in cheap multivitamins) are rapidly converted by gut bacteria, causing a sharper, more pronounced surge in baseline TMAO levels. [1, 2]
- Lipid-Bound Dietary Choline: Choline found naturally in whole foods like eggs or beef liver is primarily phosphatidylcholine (lecithin). Research indicates that these natural, lipid-bound forms are absorbed much earlier in the digestive tract, leaving less free choline for gut microbes to convert into TMAO. [1, 2, 3]
z red bull. Bring the mf day on! That is the code for "God Mode" in my life. If you are struggling with focus, the first thing I would cancel out is a sleep study. They are easy to get and can do them at home by wearing something on your finger.I like Citicoline (CDP‑Choline), Uridine (UMP) and if you have ADHD type symptoms NAC and Algar appears to helpNootropics: Alpha GPC, Piracetam (most racetams for that matter), L-theanine Thorne Memoractiv (swear by this stuff), Lions mane, and Pharmagaba.
yeah this is a good shout, and make sure you pick the right strain, depends what you're going, I prefer something creative to get my mind going, and something with lots of energy if I need to be busy.oddly pot. I can get interested in JUST ABOUT anything with a good buzz and a reason to be.
yes and no. if we’re getting technical modafinil is technically a “eugeroic” as opposed to a stimulant. it’s effects on the dopamine system are much weaker than amphetamines, impacting norepinephrine and (mostly) orexin more significantly than dopamine. it has more to do with wakefulness and alertness than the reward/focus stuff specifically tho they do work incredibly similarly. but personally modafinil is smooth enough and longer lasting enough that i’ve never found myself compulsively redosing. personally i don’t really get much euphoria from it at all so i find myself able to use it for my ADHD/chronic fatigue without risking abuse. the couple of times i tried to take more than my usual dose to chase the stimulation it just made me headachy, irritable, and nauseous.Genuine question here but isn't modafinil a stimulant still? I know that fladrafinil is so much stronger than modafinil that it's maybe the only stimulant I've ever found myself redosing without even thinking about it. I don't do that shit with meth, but I did it with fladrafinil for some reason.