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what substances can prevent recording of short term memory becides THC?

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paranoia_

Bluelighter
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Mar 17, 2008
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what substances can prevent recording of short term memory becides THC or an anticholinergic?
 
Benzos (or such) that hit the a3 (I think) receptor. The sleep and forgetfulness seem to go hand in glove...

Someone correct me if I've got the wrong sub-receptor...
 
NMDA antagonists do, high doses of GABAergic drugs, domoic acid (amnesiac shelfish poisoning)

Sillicon dioxide will do in high doses too, dropped from a big enough height.
 
All sorts of drugs bugger the hippocampus and the step from short term memorty to long term memory, but just about the best is the benzos - that's one of theor main uses for unpleasant medical proceedures like endoscopies
 
haribo1 said:
Benzos (or such) that hit the a3 (I think) receptor. The sleep and forgetfulness seem to go hand in glove...

Someone correct me if I've got the wrong sub-receptor...
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Nah its the drugs that hit the α1 and α5 subtypes that seem to be really amnestic, things like zolpidem and flunitrazepam. Selective α3 agonists are non sedating and non amnestic, purely anxiolytic (and anticonvulsant I think?)

NMDA antagonists also can be strongly amnestic which is why ethanol does such a good job of producing memory blanks at high doses as it is acting as both an agonist for α5 GABAa receptors and an antagonist at NMDA.

Scopolamine is also well known for producing amnesia and was what they mainly used for making people forget traumatic medical procedures before they had midazolam and propofol available.
 
fastandbulbous said:
^ Twilight sleep - a mixture of scopolamine & morphine. Doesn't sound that bad to me! (anticholinergics are another group that batter the hippocampus into submission)
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I'm not too sure about the half-life with scopolamine/etc. and other anti-cholinergic drugs, but do you think that if one takes them for sleep it would affect their cognitive and memory function the next day?

I've been taking small doses of anti-cholinergics and belladonna alkaloids (Donnatal) to sleep, and even with my dose of amphetamine for ADHD during the day, it seems that my memory is still a bit sluggish and I physically feel like I do not get the norepinephrine PNS effect.

I do smoke cigarettes; and which work on a subset of the acetylcholine receptor (nicotinic), but I notice, especially in the mornings (nicotine w/d, subsequent spike in blood levels after morning smoke), that first smoke makes me even more physically fatigued, amphetamine or not.

Also, I started acetyl-l-carnitine 1g 2x day recently.... and since ALCAR functions somewhat on ACh, do you think taking it long term could help with these side-effects?
 
I've never had memory loss and I take a fairly high dose of diphenhydramine all the time (100+mg).

I've never had any amnesia from dissociatives either. I mean, unless I've gone under full aneasthesia, that is.
 
Ham-milton said:
I've never had memory loss and I take a fairly high dose of diphenhydramine all the time (100+mg).

I've never had any amnesia from dissociatives either. I mean, unless I've gone under full aneasthesia, that is.
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My main issue is with cognitive function. It seems that anti-cholinergics can be slightly cognitively deleterious and can make you physically sluggish (not as bad as potent GABA/sympathetic nervous system antagonists) during the day.
 
mad_scientist said:
Nah its the drugs that hit the α1 and α5 subtypes that seem to be really amnestic, things like zolpidem and flunitrazepam. Selective α3 agonists are non sedating and non amnestic, purely anxiolytic (and anticonvulsant I think?)

NMDA antagonists also can be strongly amnestic which is why ethanol does such a good job of producing memory blanks at high doses as it is acting as both an agonist for α5 GABAa receptors and an antagonist at NMDA.
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Sounds nice, but in my experience (as an benzo ex-dependant learning several languages and so constantly using memory), ALL benzos at ANY dose will negatively affect both memory storage and retrieval.

Furthermore, NMDA antagonists (at least Alcohol and Ketamine), will affect short term memory while their main effects last, but seem to actually give it (at least as far as language is concerned) a boost as they wear off. It makes sense when you consider that many poets refer to the drink as a 'muse' ;)

I also found that amphetamines seriously fuck up memory storage, but at the same time boost its retrieval (to a point).

That of course is just my experience. You and science are free to disagree :)
 
Jamshyd said:
Sounds nice, but in my experience (as an benzo ex-dependant learning several languages and so constantly using memory), ALL benzos at ANY dose will negatively affect both memory storage and retrieval.

Furthermore, NMDA antagonists (at least Alcohol and Ketamine), will affect short term memory while their main effects last, but seem to actually give it (at least as far as language is concerned) a boost as they wear off. It makes sense when you consider that many poets refer to the drink as a 'muse' ;)

I also found that amphetamines seriously fuck up memory storage, but boost its retrieval (to a point).

That of course is just my experience. You and science are free to disagree :)
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Since GABA reduces catecholamines in certain areas of the CNS, do you think (low, therapeudic doses) of amphetamine could possibly reverse this affect and improve memory functioning? This being that low doses of amphetamine release from large storage catecholamine vesicles (rather than the scatter-brained release from high dose amphetamine that releases from small catecholamine storage vesicles.)

This coming from a person dependent on 1mg b.i.d. of Klonopin. I'm also pretty sure the mixture in the Donnatal isn't helping (as phenobarbital's half-life is ridiculously long.)
 
splenda said:
Since GABA reduces catecholamines in certain areas of the CNS, do you think (low, therapeudic doses) of amphetamine could possibly reverse this affect and improve memory functioning? This being that low doses of amphetamine release from large storage catecholamine vesicles (rather than the scatter-brained release from high dose amphetamine that releases from small catecholamine storage vesicles.)

This coming from a person dependent on 1mg b.i.d. of Klonopin. I'm also pretty sure the mixture in the Donnatal isn't helping (as phenobarbital's half-life is ridiculously long.)
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Well I've tried that actually (dexedrine + bromazepam), and it just made things worse.

The combo of amp. and benzos, at any dose, is a very dangerous one, especially when done chronically. After a while you start getting "holes" in your memory of time and these could lead to re-dosing of either drug, making things worse and worse.

ps. phenobarbital GREATLY potentiates amphetamine through enzyme induction - it also potentiates benzo amnesia through GABAergic synergy. It is a horrible idea altogether (speaking from experience, too)!
 
^ yeah, absolutely. Phenobarb is something you need to be EXTREMELY careful about taking with anything, regardless of if it's a GABAergic or not.
 
Jamshyd said:
Well I've tried that actually (dexedrine + bromazepam), and it just made things worse.

The combo of amp. and benzos, at any dose, is a very dangerous one, especially when done chronically. After a while you start getting "holes" in your memory of time and these could lead to re-dosing of either drug, making things worse and worse.

ps. phenobarbital GREATLY potentiates amphetamine through enzyme induction - it also potentiates benzo amnesia through GABAergic synergy. It is a horrible idea altogether (speaking from experience, too)!
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Well, prior to trying (low dose) amphetamine (and being dependent on benzodiazepines), my cognitive and memory functioning was MUCH worse than it is now.

Most likely due to the reverse effect the amphetamine has on GABA... if anything adding the amphetamine into the mixture has helped tremendously.

I'd like to add that the dose of benzodiazepine has created tolerance to the amnesiatic and sedative effects because of dependency (although it still produces cognitive and memory slowness if not taken with something to counter-act lowered catecholamine levels.)

And on the phenobarbital... I forgot about CYP450 for a minute there. Doh!! No wonder at times when I take amphetamine and phenobarbital at once I get stronger effects of both the amphetamine and strong anxiolysis.
 
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If it is indeed helping you, then that is good. However, be wary of the fact that Amphetamine gives a false sense of confidence, and that might be tricking you into thinking that things have improved.

ps. I am still convinced that analysis via catecholamines isn't the correct explanation for memory issues. I believe it has more to do with large-scale neuro-endocrine changes.
 
Jamshyd said:
If it is indeed helping you, then that is good. However, be wary of the fact that Amphetamine gives a false sense of confidence, and that might be tricking you into thinking that things have improved.

ps. I am still convinced that analysis via catecholamines isn't the correct explanation for memory issues. I believe it has more to do with large-scale neuro-endocrine changes.
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You probably are right. And the false sense of confidence, etc. euphoric effects of amphetamine have worn off a long time ago (titrated up my dose to best efficacy to improve cognitive functioning.)

I do also take DL-phenylalanine and acetyl-l-carnitine. For the latter, do you think, with increases in ACh levels, it would be of more benefit than harm to learning and memory?
 
As mentioned, small therapeutic-range doses of (d)-amphetamine actually do help improve certain aspects of memory, particularly verbal recall. Large tweak-a-thon doses that create motor stereotypies do not and end up hindering memory encoding (which may be due in part to the insomnia that large amphetamine doses cause--REM sleep is critical for memory transcription and permanent encoding).

Splenda: if you want to improve your memory, the best (and only viable) solution is to stop the phenobarbital/anticholinergic combo. Phenobarbital is extremely well known for causing cognitive disruption, an effect that is far greater than the mnemonic effects of most benzos. That is, barbiturates cause disruption that goes above and beyond "just being tired and sluggish," as they antagonize AMPA receptors in addition to their GABAergic effects. Also, combining a barbiturate and a benzo greatly amplifies the GABAergic effect of both compounds (and of GABA itself, of course)--the synergism is greater than the sum of the parts. So if you can switch to something without tropane alkaloids and phenobarbital, I'm sure your memory will improve dramatically.

PS: Ergoloids are also known for their memory-improving qualities. Even at relatively small doses, LSD is too immersive and trippy (obviously ;)) for this purpose, but other ergoloids can work wonders for the old hippocampus. For example, Hydergine (assorted dihydroergoloids), nicergoline (a methoxy-lysergic acid derivative) and even low doses of ergometrine are excellent cognition-enhancing drugs.
 
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