What solvent does NOT dissolve MDMA at all ?

[steveshutt]

hi there,

Of-course, if there's a solvent that does not dissolve MDMA at all,
then this solvent is a prime candidate for cleaning MDMA powder.

My searches on google for such a solvent have so far yielded nothing.

Does anyone know of a good source of solvent solubility data ?
What resources do lab chemists consult when considering which solvent to use (or not use) for a given compound ?

My only clues so far are that water and alcohols dissolve MDMA very well.
I know that alcohols and water are polar solvents.
Perhaps this means all non-polar solvents wont dissolve MDMA ?
Perhaps some polar solvents do dissolve MDMA and others do not?

what determines whether a compound will dissolve in a given solvent ?
Does anyone actually *know* the answer to this?
(please don't guess or bluff it)

Best wishes... thanks for your help

Steve

 

[vecktor]

what you are really after is a solvent that does not dissolve MDMA hydrochloride but does dissolve the other crap. otherwise all you are doing is making the powder wet with the solvent and not changing anything at all, Such a solvent does not exist because of the similarities between the solubility of the cuts and other crap and MDMA hydrochloride.
there are plenty of solvents that would not dissolve mdma hydrochloride, they wouldn't dissolve anything else either.

the usual way to purify mdma is to acid/base extract it, and then either distill the free base or precipitate the hydrochloride by gassing, using hydrogen chloride , a solution of the freebase dissolved in anhydrous ether, then recrystalize from IPA or similar.#
there is of course re crystalisation, from isopropanol of the crude powder, which would give a much purer product but would cost the material staying in the mother liquor.

there is no magic way.

 

[steveshutt]

Such a solvent does not exist because of the similarities between the solubility of the cuts and other crap and MDMA hydrochloride. there are plenty of solvents that would not dissolve mdma hydrochloride, they wouldn't dissolve anything else either.

You think that no such solvent exists because ....

(1) -- everything used to cut MDMA is similar (in terms of solubility) to MDMA HCl.

And you also think:

(2) -- There are plenty of solvents that wouldn't dissolve MDMA HCl... but these don't dissolve anything else either.

The list of possible substances MDMA HCl could be cut with is extremely large indeed.. hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of possible substances. (to illustrate this, consider how many entries there are in the Merck Index)

And you think they all have similar solubility to MDMA HCl... and therefore such a solvent does not exist ??

Then, uniquely, you think that there are plenty of solvents that neither dissolve MDMA HCl .. nor do they dissolve anything else ?

So in what respect are they 'solvents' .. if they dissolve nothing ?


Please don't bluff a ragged answer... as a mod, you should know better.

Have a nice day

Steve

 

[Iodjini_dk]

You can wash it with acetone. Youll loose some of the mdma, but it will make the product much purer. Given the impurities are soluble in acetone that is. Ive tried it once just for fun with reasonable results. It seems much of the common impurities in mdma can be extracted with acetone.

But Id also reccomend an A/B extraction. This is the way to go if you want a really good product. Also you can never know what these impurities are. So if theyre not soluble in acetone then an acetone wash will do you no good.

 

[Damien]

The list of possible substances MDMA HCl could be cut with is extremely large indeed.. hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of possible substances. (to illustrate this, consider how many entries there are in the Merck Index)
...
Please don't bluff a ragged answer... as a mod, you should know better.

So you're looking for a list of possibly hundreds of solvents to address the possible tens of thousands of substances? Why not go with tried and true methods?

I think vecktor answered it pretty well.

 

[steveshutt]

You can wash it with acetone. Youll loose some of the mdma, but it will make the product much purer. Given the impurities are soluble in acetone that is. Ive tried it once just for fun with reasonable results. It seems much of the common impurities in mdma can be extracted with acetone.

But Id also reccomend an A/B extraction. This is the way to go if you want a really good product. Also you can never know what these impurities are. So if theyre not soluble in acetone then an acetone wash will do you no good.

Hi Lodjini

Thanks for your answer.

I guess i could reduce the MDMA loss from the dry acetone wash by chilling the acetone (and the MDMA) beforehand.

I think this whole A/B extraction procedure is very interesting.. i'd love to spend some time doing it...problem is.. i don't have the glassware, the vacuum pump, or the HCl to do an A/B extraction... So it's not a practical option. However, i still want to cleanup any MDMA that might be coming my way.

I hear it is usual to experience 'product-loss' with an A/B extraction.
Do you know (approximately) what percentage is normally lost ?

I guess my best plan, so far, is a chilled acetone wash... followed by a hot solvent recrystallisation.
If i weigh the products before and after it will tell me how much rubbish was removed.

Thanks again

Steve

 

[vecktor]

You think that no such solvent exists because ....

(1) -- everything used to cut MDMA is similar (in terms of solubility) to MDMA HCl.

And you also think:

(2) -- There are plenty of solvents that wouldn't dissolve MDMA HCl... but these don't dissolve anything else either.

The list of possible substances MDMA HCl could be cut with is extremely large indeed.. hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of possible substances. (to illustrate this, consider how many entries there are in the Merck Index)

And you think they all have similar solubility to MDMA HCl... and therefore such a solvent does not exist ??

Then, uniquely, you think that there are plenty of solvents that neither dissolve MDMA HCl .. nor do they dissolve anything else ?

So in what respect are they 'solvents' .. if they dissolve nothing ?


Please don't bluff a ragged answer... as a mod, you should know better.

Have a nice day

Steve

since you are a pedant and google is your god, look up mdma cuts,
For something to be used to cut MDMA it has to be
1, readily available
2, Cheaper than MDMA.hcl
3, Fairly non toxic.

then list me say 100 compounds that fit the bill, you will struggle to find 50. which is slightly different to hundreds of thousands isn't it...

then tell me how many are complex water soluble sugars, how many are alkaloids like caffeine amphetamine or ketamine, then tell me what they are soluble in and surprise surprise they have similar solubility profiles to MDMA hydrochloride.


one final thing cold acetone wash followed by recrystallization does not tell you how much rubbish (ie non mdma material) was removed does it?

you have several problems: which you have to address.....

you have no way of telling how much MDMA you have to start with

no way of telling how much is lost into the Acetone, and how much was lost into the Alcohol,

you also have no way of telling how pure your recrystallized material is, MDMA.HCl forms several hydrates is polymorphic and also can form with 'solvent of crystallization.'

you have no way of correctly assaying the MDMA content.

There are answers to all these problems, I am not going to spoon feed you them,

Go away and do some thinking and some learning,

 

[Phineas Gage]

I don't think anyone can tell you approximately what percentage is lost because it's highly dependent on sample, technique, and reagents. Just how much practice do you have extracting solutions and collecting crystals suspended in solution?

And with the recrystallization, the weight difference before and after is both rubbish and MDMA left in solution in the mother liquor. You'll not be able to know more than that from the weight difference. Perhaps you could focus on some other observation to estimate purity such as melting point.

Perhaps if your solvent isn't anhydrous, you'd have significant loses due to lack of crystallization.

So what's a good co-solvent for hot IPA if you're doing a 2-solvent recrystallization of MDMA*HCl? Would using this recrystallization technique help offset loses due to water in the primary solvent?