What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[epic11]

I am pretty sure my first encounter with the MehDMA was in 2005.

I have also noted the negative interaction between MehDMA and 2CB. I always heard how awesome it was supposed to be, but in my experience, MehDMA followed by 2CB is a negative, horrible, pray for it to be over soon, type of experience. I once had such a bad time that I was concerned I would have to call an ambulance due to the severity of the headache. If I do the 2CB first, it is not as negative, but also not particularly notable. Doing it in that order almost made the MehDMA a bit better than usual.

I stopped mixing the two entirely because it was typically such an unpleasant experience. I never experienced the synergy or positivity rumored to take place with the MehDMA & 2CB combo. I theorized about this earlier in the thread somewhere as a possible additional indicator that the MehDMA is not right.

I love both. In fact, 2cb is my fav. I use it a lot. With that said, without ever doing it..... I can say for sure mehdma and 2cb = no way. MDMA and 2cb = OH YEA.

 

[me.and.emma]

I am pretty sure my first encounter with the MehDMA was in 2005.

I have also noted the negative interaction between MehDMA and 2CB. I always heard how awesome it was supposed to be, but in my experience, MehDMA followed by 2CB is a negative, horrible, pray for it to be over soon, type of experience. I once had such a bad time that I was concerned I would have to call an ambulance due to the severity of the headache. If I do the 2CB first, it is not as negative, but also not particularly notable. Doing it in that order almost made the MehDMA a bit better than usual.

I stopped mixing the two entirely because it was typically such an unpleasant experience. I never experienced the synergy or positivity rumored to take place with the MehDMA & 2CB combo. I theorized about this earlier in the thread somewhere as a possible additional indicator that the MehDMA is not right.

I have never tried the crap mdma with 2CB, but when you have the good stuff it is really really amazingly awesome.

It seems the mehmdma blocks some serotonin receptors, that the 2CB cannot get working if its taking after.

and if 2CB is used first it obviously releases enough neurotransmitters to block out some of the shit effect of the mehmdma, for awhile until it get re up taken.

I wonder how mehmdma reacts when LSD is taken first?


"5-HT1B receptor agonists
In addition to being 5-HT1B agonists, triptans are also agonists at the 5-HT1D receptor, which contributes to their antimigraine effect caused by vasoconstriction of blood vessels in the brain. The same is true for ergotamine. "

bad mdma also give me a headache, meaning this stuff blocks 5-HT1D.

and 5-HT2C-preferring serotonin receptor agonist that induces anxiety and depression and can cause panic attacks in susceptible individuals. (I have experienced this too)

 

[indigoaura]

I guess it would be interesting experiment to mix the DW MDMA that seemed weak with the 2CB and see if it felt the same as the MehDMA with the 2CB.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

I can see several ways they could do this transformation beckman rearrangement via oxime to amide then hofmann to get rid of one carbon to give MDA (unless the isocyanate can be trapped and reduced in situ to give MDMA which would be truly novel) or oxidation to carboxylic acid formation of amide and then hofmann to MDA. MDA can be converted to MDMA but it is not really that straight forward. There are alternatives to Hofmann but Hofmann is cheap.
All pretty poor compared to PMK glycidate, for that reason it is likely that most of the commercial MDMA is the route going PMK glycidate to PMK then reductive amination. That is the easiest route without involving controlled precursors and most likely to be used.

Glubrahnum I suggest you count the number of carbons on helional... I'm glad you have a job with fancy toys but I disagree with the idea that isobaric compounds will fool GCMS, They won't and no you don't need expensive columns, a short DB5 will separate the isomers as the paper way back in this thread showed.
MDMA is still MDMA, but what else is present is probably part of the issue and I doubt it is synthesis by-products.

This is academically interesting but I think you are looking too hard for one answer when there are several.

Dutch clandestine did it first in 2014

The new method they have manage to do does isolate the isocyanate. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6205722/#!po=52.5751

Academia managed to do it second. It truly is novel and if pmk gets more and more cracked down along with bmk more of them will probably push for other novel methods

 

[AutoTripper]

I am pretty sure my first encounter with the MehDMA was in 2005.

Im actually glad to hear you say that, as it matches with my own suspicions of those Mickey Mouse pills which suddenly flooded the scene

in my experience, MehDMA followed by 2CB is a negative, horrible, pray for it to be over soon, type of experienc

I remember seeing a PsychedSubstance video report on YT where he had what sounded like a surprisingly difficult and intense experience taking 2cb on top of MDMA and being caught out by unexpected and hard to manage effects.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Im actually glad to hear you say that, as it matches with my own suspicions of those Mickey Mouse pills which suddenly flooded the scene

I remember seeing a PsychedSubstance video report on YT where he had what sounded like a surprisingly difficult and intense experience taking 2cb on top of MDMA and being caught out by unexpected and hard to manage effects.

Psychedsubstance was in NZ during his crazy drug use, i personally knew some of the people he use to hang with. The 2cb he would of used would of been the same i had. I knew some people doing some very crazy nexus flips with it using high dose 50-70 mg 2cb with 200 mg + mdma.

 

[phenethylo J]

Psychedsubstance was in NZ during his crazy drug use, i personally knew some of the people he use to hang with. The 2cb he would of used would of been the same i had. I knew some people doing some very crazy nexus flips with it using high dose 50-70 mg 2cb with 200 mg + mdma.

Plugged 65mgs of some dw mda and 25mgs of 2cb together and that was pretty good; the strong empathogenic rush was comparable to high doses I've done with pills before. Ended up doing some k and dmt out in my backyard under the stars during the peak.

 

[Phobos]

Psychedsubstance was in NZ during his crazy drug use, i personally knew some of the people he use to hang with. The 2cb he would of used would of been the same i had. I knew some people doing some very crazy nexus flips with it using high dose 50-70 mg 2cb with 200 mg + mdma.

I have never tried such dosages of 2C-B, but have snorted up to 25mg which about doubles the intensity compared to oral.
That dosage plus 200+ MDMA seems to indicate a tolerance was at play.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

I have never tried such dosages of 2C-B, but have snorted up to 25mg which about doubles the intensity compared to oral.
That dosage plus 200+ MDMA seems to indicate a tolerance was at play.

These were some very heavy wook drug users but tolerance would of also been there since these people seemed to down mdma nearly every day

 

[me.and.emma]

I agree with Phobos:
"I have never tried such dosages of 2C-B, but have snorted up to 25mg which about doubles the intensity compared to oral.
That dosage plus 200+ MDMA seems to indicate a tolerance was at play. "

I have snorted 20 mg 2CB in the morning after whole night Magicmdma. It was harsh on the nose, but by far the absolute best and most amazing 2CB experience I ever had. I can highly recommend this.

 

[Phobos]

I have snorted 20 mg 2CB in the morning after whole night Magicmdma. It was harsh on the nose, but by far the absolute best and most amazing 2CB experience I ever had. I can highly recommend this.

I would recommend people try this only if they are experienced.
Having tried intranasal NBOMEs and 2C-B, I would say that while the latter is more benign in perceived effects, it is not so by a big margin, and the come up is rougher.
2C-B is safer from a clinical standpoint though.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Glubrahnum I suggest you count the number of carbons on helional...

Yes, Helional and MDMA have the same amount of carbons. Helional is less massive, though.

I'm glad you have a job with fancy toys but I disagree with the idea that isobaric compounds will fool GCMS,

Yes, with modern and diligently made analysis with a combination of GC and MS. That's why I wrote:

It is really easy to fool MS with isobaric substances, but a modern and diligently made analysis with a combination of GC and MS or HPLC/MS should be able to resolve these substances ...especially with derivatization of the sample.

On the other hand, most of these analytic techniques do not determine the enantiomer ratio.

 

[vecktor]

Yes, Helional and MDMA have the same amount of carbons. Helional is less massive, though.


Yes, with modern and diligently made analysis with a combination of GC and MS. That's why I wrote:

give up with the enantiomer ratio, chirality does not arise spontaneously a racemic starting material and racemic reagents. racemic starting material whether it is PMK glycidate or Helional or piperonal or safrole or PMK is going to give racemic MDMA.

You might have accidentally raised an interesting point though, what is the pharmacology of 3-(3,4-MethylenedioxyPhenyl)-2-methylpropanamine? IUPAC 3-(2H-1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)-2-methylpropan-1-amine which would be the product of reductively aminating Helional rather than rearranging and shortening the chain to to get the correct phenyl propane backbone. I guarantee that GCMS can distinguish it from MDMA and the mass spectra would be markedly different.

 

[Glubrahnum]

I would not like to give up on testing chirality because of due dilligence. A full analysis should include it.
I realize that non-racemic products are unlikely, but I can only suspect the synth methods - I do not know them for certain. The clandestine chemist could have come up with something very unusual.

 

[vecktor]

Dutch clandestine did it first in 2014

The new method they have manage to do does isolate the isocyanate. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6205722/#!po=52.5751

Academia managed to do it second. It truly is novel and if pmk gets more and more cracked down along with bmk more of them will probably push for other novel methods

the route in the link does not start with helional. 3,4 methylenedioxy benzaldehyde Heliotropin also called piperonal is not helional. Helional would have to be oxidised to the acid precursor.

or alternatively the route is Beckmann then Hofmann to BOC MDA then methylation with carcinogenic and toxic methylating agents.

Reduction of the isocyanate directly to methylamine would be novel, methylation of a BOC amine is not. Or maybe we have different ideas of what is novel. I can't see the azides and Thionyl chloride used in Curtius being popular with clandestine operators azide chemistry has killed people who actually know what they are doing. Headspace Hydrazoic acid.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

the route in the link does not start with helional. 3,4 methylenedioxy benzaldehyde Heliotropin also called piperonal is not helional. Helional would have to be oxidised to the acid precursor.

or alternatively the route is Beckmann then Hofmann to BOC MDA then methylation with carcinogenic and toxic methylating agents.

Reduction of the isocyanate directly to methylamine would be novel, methylation of a BOC amine is not. Or maybe we have different ideas of what is novel. I can't see the azides and Thionyl chloride used in Curtius being popular with clandestine operators azide chemistry has killed people who actually know what they are doing. Headspace Hydrazoic acid.

they start with piperonal and turned it into helional.

 

[vecktor]

I would not like to give up on testing chirality because of due dilligence. A full analysis should include it.
I realize that non-racemic products are unlikely, but I can only suspect the synth methods - I do not know them for certain. The clandestine chemist could have came up with something very unusual.

if you suspect the synthetic methods then look for the characteristic impurities, reductive amination of pmk will show traces of dimer as well as PMK-alcohol. I'm sure that other synthetic routes can be identified by the trace impurites especially as the purification of the product is not that good. For example carbamate intermediates as suggested by the supposed trapped helional route will show trace mpurities where the alkyl group has been added to the methylenedioxy phenyl ring, t-butyl for example with BOC.
Even very low level impurities, parts per billion can be detected with antisolvent trituration and then LC-MS or GC-MS.

I think you are wasting your time obsessing with testing chirality but it is your time to waste.

 

[vecktor]

they start with piperonal and turned it into helional.

no they didn't, helional is an aldehyde

 

[TripSitterNZ]

no they didn't, helional is an aldehyde

they turned it into helionical acid reread it.

 

[vecktor]

they turned it into helionical acid reread it.

helionical acid ??? OK I want whatever drugs your on.
can I call it hydrocinnamicopiperonylythingy acid instead? no matter it is not helional. If the clandestines are using it then they are either amazingly dumb or desperate or both