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    Empathogenic
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

Indeed, so why is the dextro isomer so different.
Essentially because the human body is stereoselective, and the d-isomer fits into the right synapses due to its shape while its mirror copy, the l-isomer, does not, and can only affect the peripheral nervous system. Beyond that, it does seem rather arbitrary.
 
Essentially because the human body is stereoselective, and the d-isomer fits into the right synapses due to its shape while its mirror copy, the l-isomer, does not, and can only affect the peripheral nervous system. Beyond that, it does seem rather arbitrary.
Wasn t that only supposedly with l-Meth, why it in allowed Vicks.
L-Amphetamine is active CNS and PNS but take it away,
and it like taking away the re creative side. In my case.

Maybe also why its a medicine still, dl- in NL, is not. Like Meth.
 
I believe it to be the case with amphetamine. After all, why do you think dexamphetamine is used medically if both isomers had the same activity?

If memory serves amphetamine and methamphetamine are transported to the brain differently BUT both are chiral transports.

I've never sampled the (R) isomers of either but some people apparently LIKE the raecemic drugs. The physical load is something they enjoy.
 
Racemic amphetamine has more kick. Dextro focuses on level-headed, motivated euphoria. So I kinda relate to emkee_reinvented

Meth I can not comment on but I have been claimed l-meth has also CNS activitity, it is just barely remarkable and limited effect.
 
I believe it to be the case with amphetamine. After all, why do you think dexamphetamine is used medically if both isomers had the same activity?

If memory serves amphetamine and methamphetamine are transported to the brain differently BUT both are chiral transports.

I've never sampled the (R) isomers of either but some people apparently LIKE the raecemic drugs. The physical load is something they enjoy.
Maybe do a bit off catching up on drug info,
Even WIKI is clear bout it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levoamphetamine

And i agree with inspector 'Pessi_Mist' ;) nothing passing un-noticed by,
that guy. Pissed _Messed wrote the Levo isomer gives race-mic the kick.
Taken both IME it is so. That is the reason only dextro is a medicine here.
Wonder bout how racemic MPH IR became one that is weird !
And fed too 8 years.

Cydril was sold as a stimulant 'old skool'
[WIKI] that contained l-Amphetamine only.

Not like l-Meth Vicks. OTC/ USA, though as the US
does still see Meth as medication.

They chose only dextro pure Meth-Amphetamine
too use as medication.
So not hard to guess the other isomer,
portrait ed as inactive as stimulant medically.
Is not simply inactive PNS/ Bronchodilator.
And Gouvernement manipulation works.

Think it does make it more recreational or.
distracting from ADHD point of view.

Anyone ever took L-Amphetamine or Cydril [70-ties] ?
What it would feel like ... never heard of it.
.
 
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Wasn t that only supposedly with l-Meth, why it in allowed Vicks.
L-Amphetamine is active CNS and PNS but take it away,
and it like taking away the re creative side. In my case.

Maybe also why its a medicine still, dl- in NL, is not. Like Meth.
You seem to be conflating illegality with psychotropic activity. Just bc NL bans a medication doesn't automatically mean it's recreationally desirable.

L-meth is available in Vicks precisely b/c while it might have some stimulant properties, and it certainly functions as a bronchial dilator and antitussive, it is not a euphoriant the way the d-isomer is, and its psychotropic profile is very limited comparatively. Quite a few drugs are like this. Ketamine is best as either the isolated S-isomer or as a racemic blend, but what you likely will not see "in the wild" so to speak is the isolated R-isomer due to its limited utility as a medicine and limited, if not fully absent, recreational appeal. Personally, I've compared racemic meth to d-isomer-only meth, and the former produces a good bit more tachycardia & hypertension, two less-than-desirable traits. This, along with the aesthetics is why meth producers go through the trouble of resolving the isomers and converting the majority of it to the d-isomer.

"gl- in NL, is not. Like meth.
Yes but generally speaking, the NL is praiseworthy for taking an approach of tolerance—or: gedoogbeleid, I believe it's called—to drug possession and even its distribution to a certain extent. It's definitely a lot less risky in the NL (and most countries) compared to the United States, whose drug statutes are, frankly, Draconian. And I think the main reason why NL continues to keep drugs illegal but simultaneously rarely enforces these laws is so that they can still comply with international drug treaties with their trading partners. Otherwise, I imagine we'd likely see full legalization. It appears that this approach is successful in its goal of reducing societal harm.
 
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Ironically it was while I was living in The Netherlands that I was givem a bag of methamphetamine. I took one small line, hated it and gave the rest away. That was optically pure. The chemist had produced the raecemate and resolved the isomers and discarded the 'waste' as they termed the less active isomer.

I'm sure I will never undertand the atration of methamphetamine. MAYBE if someone gave me a single 3mg tablet, that might be OK, but in the doses I heae about, no way. Too much.
 
I'm sure I will never undertand the atration of methamphetamine.
Not with that attitude, nope, you sure won't. Be careful not to program your nervous system to respond the way you assume you will. Keep an open mind and try to avoid saying "never" and other absolutes, ya feel me? Trust me: there's a reason it's so popular in certain places, just like there's a reason it's cautioned against by many (…though notably usually either those who were bad at using the drug or those who've never used the drug; the rest of us had a good time).

Then again: different strokes for different folks. It's fine if you never use it again, just try to reserve judgement against those who do, and do so responsibly. You never hear about these stories though, bc those people keep it to themsevles and it's not exactly sensational headlines news to tell you about those who don't abuse the drug. It's much more entertaining to hear stories of strung-out criminals and drugs that magically make people zombies and blah³ cliches and stereotypes…

But in the interest of taxonomic ambition, let's try to stay on-topic, s'il vous plaît.
 
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You seem to be conflating illegality with psychotropic activity. Just bc NL bans a medication doesn't automatically mean it's recreationally desirable.

....

Yes but generally speaking, the NL is praiseworthy for taking an approach of tolerance—or: gedoogbeleid, I believe it's called—to drug possession and even its distribution to a certain extent. It's definitely a lot less risky in the NL (and most countries) compared to the United States, whose drug statutes are, frankly, Draconian. And I think the main reason why NL continues to keep drugs illegal but simultaneously rarely enforces these laws is so that they can still comply with international drug treaties with their trading partners. Otherwise, I imagine we'd likely see full legalization. It appears that this approach is successful in its goal of reducing societal harm.
Agreed in the case of Meth-Amphetamine and dl-Amphetamine it was.
Like i said so euphoric they were labeled un-useful as medication/ or on-ethical ?
They didn t do the same with dl-MethylPhenidate, no logic is applied obvious.

DXM was OTC till US kids epidemie reached headlines.
It was taken of the shelf il-legalised before a kid here even tried it.
So the reason its recreational, official explanation drug-drug interaction.
Life threatening Med :unsure: so why its everywhere available.
Are people dropping death ?

DextroMorAmide, was removed because of irredic pharma-kinetic s
[oral as good as Heroine, caused deaths] Palfium brand name.
Same Clomethiazole, to dangerous in comparison with Benzo s.
Not Meprobamate, think that was removed because it was to yummy.

Euphoric, unlike a Benzo, Baclofen or Tiazidine that filled the gap.
GHB is Euphoria in a cup, but essential for Narcolepsy so it s prescription.
Sad dr s don t know Xyrem/ Sodium-Oxybate = GHB.

Would make WD-ing from illegal GHB or Alcohol a lot easier.
Just like Clomethiazole would [in case of Alcohol],
and what Diazepam doesn t. Inpatient used i see no logic nor reason.

Irredic pharmakinetics: Politics and Cops. As the both are dependent on:
your geographic location in NL. Here you can sell Speed [were i live],
not get evicted, grow certified 0.1% THC legal Hemp. And your on the street !

Tolerance is like miss Justica s scale, its not in balance.
It leans obvious to one side, and why does a blind-folded woman need a sword ?

edit: and them Cops their Logo a
'representation of the law book, with a hole in it where flames burst out"
[keep in the back of your head: cops don t respect the Law, they are above it]
 
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Et à monseigneur @unodelacosa ,
moi j' essayer de rester a l' objet de OP.

C'est tres Difficile pour moi, ecercice et ecercice.
Meilleur donner rester: sur l' objet. Cest une promesse. 🤝

French lesson had, so will take me some time so will need a little slack.

French, that was long ago. Self schooling works better that.s a fact.
Now proven, had a 3 in my school report from 10, dropped French asap.
 
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Et à monseigneur @unodelacosa ,
moi j' essayer de rester a l' objet de OP.

C'est tres Difficile pour moi, ecercice et ecercice.
Meilleur donner rester: sur l' objet. Cest une promesse.
That was pretty good. I think it's supposed to be: “moi j'essaie de rester sur le sujet de l'OP” but I caught your meaning anyway. Cheers.
 
FTIR and FDA Warning Letters

Fit for Purpose’ as applied to testing techniques good and bad. I spoke around the country on this topic for years. My stance then and now is that FTIR is not fit for purpose to identify and differentiate MDMA from iso or similar compounds or complicated mixtures of compounds.

Posted on May 2, 2023

FTIR and FDA Warning Letters
By Elan Sudberg

One of the hardest things I have ever done in my life was to earn a degree in chemistry. While I claimed three other majors before that and could have graduated so many years earlier, I knew I had to understand the foundations of phyto/fungal chemicals to be good at measuring them later for all my favorite brands. School was never easy for me and combined with my choice in degree, while simultaneously starting Alkemist Labs with my father, I ended up spending a lot of office hours with my chemistry professors, trying not to fail. I always made it known I was working and running a natural product testing lab after school hoping they’d take some sort of nostalgic pity on me, but they did not.

We started the Alkemist Labs with two time tested and globally accepted ~rudimentary techniques for botanical and fungi identity: light microscopy and high-performance thin layer chromatography (HPTLC). If there was an award for re-pioneering oldie but goodie testing technology, we should have earned it by now. Meanwhile the peddlers of a new tricorder promising to be “the lab in a box the botanical world has all been waiting for” began their marketing campaign of ‘trust us’ and ‘we rely on a proprietary reference library for which, so sorry, you can’t audit.’ Oh, and those algorithms (facepalm). It was/still is called FTIR and if you sense a negative stance on its use in our industry, you are correct. Keep reading.

While Fourier-transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR), a technique where an infrared spectrum of light is used to measure absorption or emission of a solid, liquid, or gas, has been around and widely accepted as an important analytical instrument for almost 60 years, its primary strength was for structural elucidation of single molecules. That’s ‘nerdish’ for identifying a simple chemical.

Back to those office hours… It is still not uncommon for Alkemist to fail a botanical/fungus by HPTLC that passed by FTIR. At one point early in my college and Alkemist career, I had a collection of FTIR C of As from other labs (mostly unknown ones in the back of an ingredient supplier’s warehouse) and often shared them with my advanced organic chemistry professor, Dr. Lopez and analytical chemistry professor, Dr. Anjo. They were flabbergasted as to how such tech as FTIR could be used to confirm identification of a plant/fungus. The issue was and still is that plants are complicated mixtures of hundreds of fine chemicals and most of those are beneath the surface trapped in cells or extracted out in specific fractions. Those professors helped me coin the phrase ‘Fit for Purpose’ as applied to testing techniques good and bad. I spoke around the country on this topic for years. My stance then and now is that FTIR is not fit for purpose to identify and differentiate plant species or complicated mixtures of plant products.

To be clear, FTIR has the potential to be used appropriately IF ones spends the time and money to create a robust reference library. Unfortunately the logical fallacy of ‘willful ignorance’ where one refuses to change one’s mind or consider conflicting information based on a desire to maintain one’s existing beliefs is at play and perpetuated by the ‘poisonous complacent shoulder shrug’.

Still, thanks to ambiguously written cGMPs which require only that you toss some science at the sample before you sell it (I am being a little facetious) and NOT a specific method to use or NOT use, some in this industry (you know who you are and so I do I…) still use it. And invariably when fit for purpose testing is applied to that same material, we have to fail their samples.

Why am I bringing this up? I swear it’s not because I am tired of fighting for fit for purpose methodologies. I love that fight. I eat that fight every morning like it’s organic chia seed pudding. It’s because it’s been really hard not to yell out loud, “Told You So!!!! “as I devour the weekly FDA warning letters and wade knee deep through the constant calling out of misused FTIR to identify botanicals in raw and finished goods.

What’s happening? The FDA has finally dug in at a deeper than normal level on the question, ‘how do you know this is working?’ It’s only been six months, yet the writing on the wall already says “you should have listened to Elan.” Excerpts from just a few of the FDA warning letters issued, and quoted below, show a trend:

“There is no assurance that your FTIR methodology provides the requisite specificity and that it is scientifically valid for identifying botanicals.”

“FTIR could not identify the individual dietary ingredients within the blend. While FTIR may be used to verify that the supplier is consistent in sending the same component, FTIR does not ensure that the component received is what it is claimed to be when the component is a blend with multiple ingredients.”

“Specifically, the FTIR analysis performed by your third-party laboratory uses previous shipments of components as the reference for testing and they do not own a reference library for the FTIR tests. Testing components against previous shipments of the component may confirm receipt of the same component but this does not ensure the identity, purity, quality, and strength of the component is thoroughly characterized .”

“Identity testing using FTIR to compare the sample spectrum to an unverified reference sample is not an appropriate, scientifically valid method to verify that specifications are met.”

This tale of woe ends, like all the others I have written through the years, with the best advice I have to offer: check those labs. External or internal, labs are fallible and there is a way to check yourself before you reck yourself by doing a little detective work.

Click on: https://datadashboard.fda.gov/ora/index.htm and see if that contract manufacturer or lab has a good record of keeping clear of logical fallacies. And remember kids -fit for purpose testing is the only way to go.
 
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WARNING LETTER



Aspire Pharmaceuticals, Inc.

MARCS-CMS 630328 — November 22, 2022






Dietary Supplement cGMP Violations



During the inspection, our investigators found significant violations of Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 111 (21 CFR Part 111), Current Good Manufacturing Practice (cGMP) in Manufacturing, Packaging, Labeling, or Holding Operations for Dietary Supplements. These violations cause the dietary supplements manufactured at your facility to be adulterated within the meaning of section 402(g)(1) of the Act (21 U.S.C. § 342(g)(1)] because the dietary supplements have been prepared, packed, or held under conditions that do not meet cGMP requirements for dietary supplements.










Your firm failed to conduct at least one appropriate test or examination to verify the identity of a component that is dietary ingredient, prior to its use, as required by 21 CFR 111.75(a)(l)(i). Specifically, you stated during the inspection that you rely on Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (FTIR) for identity testing for dietary ingredients. While FTIR may be used to confirm that the supplier is consistent in sending the same product, FTIR does not ensure that the product received is what it is claimed to be. To verify the identity of a component that is a dietary ingredient, you must first authenticate that the ingredient is what it is stated to be, and then you may use that FTIR as a secondary authentication spectrum.



FDA received your written response, dated April 2nd, 2017; however, we are unable to evaluate the adequacy of your corrective action. Your revised SOP states that raw materials should be tested for identification by using FTIR; that in-house HPLC analysis should be performed for one out of three batches if the supplier is the same, and that if the product fails in testing, then three consecutive batches should be tested; and that both FTIR and in-house HPLC testing will involve a chemist comparing all analytical graphs of the sample with the analytical graphs of previously established standards. It is unclear which previously established standards you are referring to or how such testing will verify the identity of each component that is a dietary ingredient.

Seems they upgraded..

HPLC systems equipped with UV/VIS, RI, FTIR and NIR spectroscopy systems, Automated Disintegration and Dissolution apparatus, Titration equipment.

We deeply believe in providing the best quality health care products at a fair market price and with high standards of technical support and customer service.
 
It is still is.

Do you mean Without ID checks?

Or do you mean DXM POWDER..?

Because getting PURE CAFFEINE powder last I checked was hard to get. Edit that crackdown was 2015 guess they stopped?
DXM is not medically used anymore. So can t be prescribed.
It was OTC, but the FEAR got the gouvernement in action.
Drug FEAR, so its officially illegal. Long time/ only in NL afaik. .

Irritating useless cough, get Noscapine.
The only non herbal alternative left
 
I've only just noted that dextromethorphan is now used in the UK. It's a [P] medicine i.e. you have to buy it at a pharmacy but I'm surprised that after the US experience with problem use of DXM, it's not a prescription medication. A botlle of syrup contains 150mg and costs £6.

Am I correct in thinking that those who took DXM for it's psychedelic effects tended to use 250-300mg? Because I've noted how the UK organizes things so no single pharmacy sells abusable amounts of a drug but if you live in a city, you can smurf.

Even morphine solution but it costs about £9 for 20mg so I very much doubt addicts would used it except in emergencies.
 
Wow - don't they all look messy.
I looked closely and they all have Mydriasis in the camera shots that show their eyes closely enough and at the right angles.
Why hasn't Molly in my area caused Mydriasis before the Pandemic in parties like this?

BTW: I have not updated my observations since then...
 
You seem to be conflating illegality with psychotropic activity. Just bc NL bans a medication doesn't automatically mean it's recreationally desirable.

L-meth is available in Vicks precisely b/c while it might have some stimulant properties, and it certainly functions as a bronchial dilator and antitussive, it is not a euphoriant the way the d-isomer is, and its psychotropic profile is very limited comparatively. Quite a few drugs are like this. Ketamine is best as either the isolated S-isomer or as a racemic blend, but what you likely will not see "in the wild" so to speak is the isolated R-isomer due to its limited utility as a medicine and limited, if not fully absent, recreational appeal. Personally, I've compared racemic meth to d-isomer-only meth, and the former produces a good bit more tachycardia & hypertension, two less-than-desirable traits. This, along with the aesthetics is why meth producers go through the trouble of resolving the isomers and converting the majority of it to the d-isomer.


Yes but generally speaking, the NL is praiseworthy for taking an approach of tolerance—or: gedoogbeleid, I believe it's called—to drug possession and even its distribution to a certain extent. It's definitely a lot less risky in the NL (and most countries) compared to the United States, whose drug statutes are, frankly, Draconian. And I think the main reason why NL continues to keep drugs illegal but simultaneously rarely enforces these laws is so that they can still comply with international drug treaties with their trading partners. Otherwise, I imagine we'd likely see full legalization. It appears that this approach is successful in its goal of reducing societal harm.
Cool but that still doens t de-bunk l-Amphetamine as active stimulant,
it was sold as such. Brandname Cydril. A stimulant.
Imo response able for the re creative effects of race mic Amphetamine.
That the d- isomer lacks.

So not a Vicks Bronco-dilator containing l-Meth-amphetamine.
 
after the US experience with problem use of DXM
Don't believe every hyped up media report you read. The thing about DXM is that it has very low recreational appeal. I don't believe it's very popular. Most ppl who try it do not repeat the experience. It's an odd disso, and it's also strange how it's mirror image compound, levomethorphan is actually an opioid, though I don't think it's primarily active on the µ-opioid receptor; I think it's the dysphoric one, either delta of kappa…

Cool but that still doens t de-bunk l-Amphetamine as active stimulant,
it was sold as such. Brandname Cydril. A stimulant.
Imo response able for the re creative effects of race mic Amphetamine.
That the d- isomer lacks.
The psychoactive component that acts in the CNS is the d-isomer. Yes, the l-isomer is also classified as a stimulant, but it has much, much weaker CNS activity than the d-isomer, yet it still causes muscular tension, tachycardia, and other less-than-pleasant effects. It's incorrect though to assess that the d-isomer lacks any of these purely physical, peripheral nervous system effects, especially if based solely on conjecture and anecdotal experience. Just take the L on this one, my dude. It's no biggie. The truth is we're lacking in research on this subject still. See for example the assessments made in this paper: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10353062/
 
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I can assure you, DXM holds no appeal to me whatsoever. I just find it interesting that at the very moment it's sale became controlled in the US, it suddenly appears in the UK. I suppose someone invested in a dedicated production facility (DXM is chiral - the other enantiomer is levorphanol, a potent opioid) and is aggresively opening new markets.

I noted much the same with oxycodone. As it's use in the US dropped suddenly, just as suddenly it became the go to opioid for GPs.
 
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