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What is kratom's half life?

alexvolume2

alexvolume2

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Hi. I have been taking 20-50 grams of kratom a day for 5 months. I would like to know how long I should wait for the drug to completely clear my system so I can take ayahuasca safely? I take 5 g phenibut per day as well but don't plan to quit before the trip unless necessary. Thanks!
 
I don't think any PK studies have measured at the half-life of mitragynine. Generally, the recommended time for avoiding interactions with MAO inhibitors is 2 weeks.

Nevertheless, the beta-carbolines present in ayahuasca do not produce the same drug interactions as irreversible MAO inhibitors. The reason why irreversible MAO inhibitors can produce a hypertensive crisis is because they are taken chronically, so the level of MAO inhibition accumulates to the point where all MAO is irreversibly inactivated. The beta-carbolines are only taken acutely, so the level of MAO inhibition doesn't go high enough to completely block the metabolism of dietary amines.
 
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Hmmm...see I would be taking Syrian rue and then chacruna tea. I want a light dose as its my first time. I have 50 g chacruna and 20 g rue. I'd be happy with even threshold effects before I jump in the deep end but it sounds dangerous. Would that definitely be dangerouseven if I didn't take kratom that day?
 
No one knows the answer to your question. The combination certainly has been tried and hasn't produced toxicity, but that doesn't mean that it is safe for YOU to ingest them together.
 
I also do not know the exact duration but i can tell you from experience that i only feel the effects of kratom for approximately 4 hours. And when i was addicted it took about 15 hours before i felt any signs of withdrawal, so i would assume that the half-life would be somewhere around 3.5 - 5 hours
 
serotonin2A said:
No one knows the answer to your question. The combination certainly has been tried and hasn't produced toxicity, but that doesn't mean that it is safe for YOU to ingest them together.
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It has produced toxicity, I think a sort of hypertensive syndrome or at least going through feelings of terrible malaise and sensations pointing to cardiovascular problems, after taking Syrian Rue with kratom still in their system without even having proceeded to the DMT brew. The question was asked in PD recently and I digged around a bit.

The biggest problem might be that there are a number of active compounds in kratom and their metabolisms may interact with one another with some very possible competition I'd suspect, and I don't know of any NDRI (or SNRI? nah) action being "isolated" from the multitude of actives.
I guess there is even dual action, and consistuents may vary per race of kratom plant. I think sekio hosted a nice NSP thread on kratom actives a while ago, there was some chemical analysis done - but not enough to help here, and certainly no pharmacokinetics.
 
AFTER discont
Solipsis said:
It has produced toxicity, I think a sort of hypertensive syndrome or at least going through feelings of terrible malaise and sensations pointing to cardiovascular problems, after taking Syrian Rue with kratom still in their system without even having proceeded to the DMT brew. The question was asked in PD recently and I digged around a bit.

The biggest problem might be that there are a number of active compounds in kratom and their metabolisms may interact with one another with some very possible competition I'd suspect, and I don't know of any NDRI (or SNRI? nah) action being "isolated" from the multitude of actives.
I guess there is even dual action, and consistuents may vary per race of kratom plant. I think sekio hosted a nice NSP thread on kratom actives a while ago, there was some chemical analysis done - but not enough to help here, and certainly no pharmacokinetics.
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He said he was going to discontinue kratom before he took beta-carbolines. Are you saying someone reported hypertension with syrian rue AFTER discontinuing kratom use? Because that is my understanding of the OP's plan.

Obviously anyone mixing a drug with other substances that are known to reduce drug metabolism in general, is going to have to think carefully about what doses they take -- you could easily overdose on one of the many alkaloids in kratom. But it isn't possible for that interaction to occur once kratom alkaloids are in the elimination phase (after the acute effects wear off).
 
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Thank you guys. My plan, to be specific, was wait just long enough so the kratom doesn't interact with the MAOI.

I would be in withdrawal for 12 hours then take the ayahuasca. I didn't know if metabolites still present after acute effects would be dangerous.
I'm not a scientist, I think you guys understand what I mean though.

If I were in withdrawals for even a whole 24 hours without kratom would taking ayahuasca still be dangerous? Would I have to abstain for several days?

I asked in PD but I thought I might get more specific here.
 
So if the half life is approximately 4 hours, then after 8 I would be in the clear to dose. Thanks for all the help guys.
 
I don't think kratom will interact negatively with the MAOIs typically used in ayahuasca, but it's better to be safe than sorry. 8-12 hours seems enough to wait between taking kratom and aya.
 
serotonin2A said:
AFTER discont

He said he was going to discontinue kratom before he took beta-carbolines. Are you saying someone reported hypertension with syrian rue AFTER discontinuing kratom use? Because that is my understanding of the OP's plan.

Obviously anyone mixing a drug with other substances that are known to reduce drug metabolism in general, is going to have to think carefully about what doses they take -- you could easily overdose on one of the many alkaloids in kratom. But it isn't possible for that interaction to occur once kratom alkaloids are in the elimination phase (after the acute effects wear off).
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Yes, if the kratom is continued long enough for it to completely clear someone's system - no there would only remain the notion of chronic effects on the brain, which are not relevant here since they are not known from NDRIs afaik - then obviously there is no overlap so no interaction. But the OPs question was how close someone could cut it, making it a question of: what is the risk if there IS overlap of action so potential interaction.

I am saying someone reported health problems from discontinuing kratom, but for 'only' 18 hours. Sorry I should have digged this link up earlier to let you know what kind of sporadic report I was talking about:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16164203

When I searched for this, I could find a number of people assuming that it would be alright, and the occasional (don't know if really a significant sample size whatsoever, but from what I read it was the majority or unanymously cautioned, I didn't really bother getting multiple accounts for consolidation) - if it were me, then no offense but I would take the warning seriously. It does not sound like fun at all, never mind if you were to not skip the DMT brew and get this reaction whilst on an aya trip. Not sure of the actual danger, but the psychological impact would be enough.

How you would weigh that against being safe rather than sorry, and discontinuing / withdrawing from kratom for some extra time that is up to each of you.. :)

Too alarmist?
 
Yes, that would be psychologically destroying, at the very least. Example: I took DXM when I withdrew from benzos last year. In hideous withdrawal took it to dissociate myself. I thought I was dying and because I was actually in physical danger anyway I had a terrible toxic feeling trip and had to call an ambulance.

I trust the suggestion to give it some time and let it clear my system. Good HR guys, that's a proper answer from different viewpoints.
 
have you ceased the kratom already? 20-50g a day is a pretty hefty habit, and might produce appreciable withdrawal symptoms... I wouldn't wanna quit it shortly before the aya consumption only to find myself withdrawing while tripping...

I have gotten slight wd symptoms from taking ~10-15g a day over three months.
 
Not at all. Still consuming high doses. Its not going to happen just yet. It is quite a large amount of kratom over time.
 
http://pastebin.com/X1Q2JV8g

It is hard to find half lives for all of these alkaloids, however I would say that 1-2 weeks seems fine. I would definitely not mix any of those with MAOIs. Raubasine has the longest half life that I've found so far. Also it seems mitragynine may be a 5ht2a antagonist.
 
alexvolume2 said:
Hi. I have been taking 20-50 grams of kratom a day for 5 months. I would like to know how long I should wait for the drug to completely clear my system so I can take ayahuasca safely? I take 5 g phenibut per day as well but don't plan to quit before the trip unless necessary. Thanks!
Click to expand...

You should be asking about the specific alkaloids in kratom.
 
CH, does anyone really know about all these specific alkaloids though? I don't think I would be able to list all the alkaloids much less get an answer regarding each one. I just now got the breakdown of kratom's alkaloidal content and percentages from anubis23 and still the makeup of different kratom types wildly varies, so I went with a broader question.
 
I think the main ones of concern are mitragynine, 7-HO-mitragynine, and possibly one or two others. Mitragynine and its oxidised cousinare the primary alkalolids responsible for activity in kratom.
 
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