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What is ibogaines secret?

MeDieViL

MeDieViL

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α3β4 antagonism has been said to be its secret, yet wellbutrin doesnt show any impressive reversal of addiction effects, it has been shown however to reverse benzo tolerance so i could see it being some tolerance reverser at its best, wich makes me wonder wheter some reveral of tolerance made the ibogaine researches conclude thats what gives it its magic.

Well if its not that, what is it? Epigenetic changes?
Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2003 Jun;75(3):607-18.
Anti-addictive actions of an iboga alkaloid congener: a novel mechanism for a novel treatment.
Maisonneuve IM, Glick SD.

Center for Neuropharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, MC-136, 47 New Scotland Avenue, Albany, NY 12208, USA. [email protected]
Abstract
18-Methoxycoronaridine (18-MC), a novel iboga alkaloid congener that decreases drug self-administration in several animal models, may be a potential treatment for multiple forms of drug abuse. In animal models, 18-MC reduced intravenous morphine, cocaine, methamphetamine and nicotine self-administration, oral alcohol and nicotine intake, and attenuated signs of opioid withdrawal, but had no effect on responding for a nondrug reinforcer (water) and produced no apparent toxicity [Brain Res. 719 (1996) 29; NeuroReport 11 (2000) 2013; Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. 58 (1997) 615; Psychopharmacology (Berl.) 139 (1998) 274; NeuroReport 9 (1998) 1283; Ann. N. Y. Acad. Sci. 914 (2000) 369]. Consistent with a relationship among drug sensitization, mesolimbic dopamine, and drug-seeking behavior, 18-MC also blocked the sensitized dopamine responses to morphine and cocaine in the nucleus accumbens. An extensive series of receptor studies showed that 18-MC was most potent and somewhat selective as an antagonist at alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors. Low-dose combinations of 18-MC with other drugs known to have this same action (e.g., mecamylamine, dextromethorphan, bupropion) decreased morphine, methamphetamine, and nicotine self-administration in rats at doses that were ineffective if administered alone. Together, the data support the hypothesis that diencephalic pathways having high densities of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors modulate mesocorticolimbic pathways more directly involved in drug reinforcement. Antagonists of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors may represent a totally novel approach to treating multiple addictive disorders, and 18-MC might be the first of a new class of synthetic agents acting via this novel mechanism and having a broad spectrum of activity.
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Wow well, reduced tolerance and craving, the plenty of anecdotes must be either placebo then or some other potent thing is going on that reverses addiction, even mental addiction and abolisement of withdrawals.

Im also sure its not the trip as many have results with treshold doses and no other trip ever cured someone of addiction, perhaps gave some insight and made them stop their addiction but thats something else.
 
first of all Wellbutrin helps in people abstaining from all kinds of stimulants, including nicotine and amphetamine
 
Ibogaine has an incredibly broad spectrum of actions; I think trying to pin its 'magic' on any one receptor or system is going to be futile

It may also be the case that Iboga alkaloids and Wellbutrin bind differently at a3b4 nicotinic r.'s
 
I would agree, just that metabolite is supposed to show that its that receptor but perhaps it has a broader effect of action.

Wellbutrin is weak sauce, makes you smoke a cig less a day doesnt compare to iboga.
 
yeah from what I've read Ibogaine has many typical mechanisms which are associated with decreased tolerance and abstinence from other drugs.
 
so basically you have to take iboga regularly (depending on its half life) so you practice abstinence from any other drugs. trading one addiction for another, sounds like a win to me.
 
^ not really. Have you ever even bothered to read anything in the literature on ibogaine, or perused the slew of anecdotes out there? Or are you even familiar with the substance at hand? I get the feeling no, no, and no. . .
 
I'm kind of busy right now, I may look this up later...www.eboka.info is a great resource for discussions backed by scientific studies on the various mechanisms of action of the alkaloids within Iboga Root.

Yeah I will update later with some sauce, I remember reading an article about various alkaloids in Iboga Root and their metabolites having the "addiction removal"(I use that kind of loosely) effect on various forms of drug addiction like: cocaine, opiates, nicotine, alcohol etc. I don't think that people should ignore all of the other actives in Iboga Root just because Ibogaine is focused on the most traditionally.
 
amanitadine said:
^ not really. Have you ever even bothered to read anything in the literature on ibogaine, or perused the slew of anecdotes out there? Or are you even familiar with the substance at hand? I get the feeling no, no, and no. . .
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i couldnt find a single science literature that states "taking iboga once, you are forever free of addictions" so no i guess im not as familiar with the substance as you are ? for all i know, you probably have to take it few times depending on the half life (which seems quite long based on experiences).
 
Science doesn't talk like that.

However, if you look at the anecdotal evidence, a good ibogaine or iboga trip eliminates cravings, withdrawal symptoms, and addiction without having to redose. Ever. It changes people. Obviously there is no guarantee, but iboga/ine is not a maintenance drug.
 
I have a kind of question - does iboga have any nootropic, mental stimulant properties?
I'mean all this stuff with nicotine receptors and other pretty high-science things)
 
Lombergerh said:
I have a kind of question - does iboga have any nootropic, mental stimulant properties?
I'mean all this stuff with nicotine receptors and other pretty high-science things)
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Most psychedelics in treshold doses have nootropic, antidepressive, anxiolytic and stimulating property's.

Iboga was traditionally used to counter fatigue.
 
Lombergerh said:
I have a kind of question - does iboga have any nootropic, mental stimulant properties?
I'mean all this stuff with nicotine receptors and other pretty high-science things)
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It is probably not the correct substance to use for this.

Typical (5HT2A agonist type) psychedelics seem to work as nootropics in low doses, but ibogaine is far from a typical psychedelic. The experience as described by people who have taken it isn't much like typical psychedelics (it doesn't sound pleasant, either, actually), the binding profile isn't much like typical psychedelics, so I don't think there is any justification to expect nootropic effects on threshold doses like typical psychedelics.

It appears to have a spectacularly messy binding profile, hitting all sorts of receptors, several in apparently unusual ways, and has worse sideffect profile than most psychedelics as well - none of which bode well for it's use as a nootropic.
 
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