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What Is Actually In Placebo Pills? If it's inert why does it give side effects too,co

Davevanza

Davevanza

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Apr 24, 2011
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Hi,

I read some articles that compare the side effects of ADs meds and placebo.
All I know the placebo pill only have inert substances such as talcum powder, binding agent, colourings, etc.No active ingredients.

I am a bit confused, as I read about Prozac gives nausea, sexual dysfunction, etc. What suprise me is the placebo even has higher nausea and sexual dysfunction effect as well. Also with sedating AD such as Amitriptyline, the Placebo also gives sedating,dry mouth and constipation effects as well. If that's the case, then, it's not placebo pill. It must be an active ingredient pills. And if it's an active ingredient pills, then they can choose whatever pills that has similar effect with the AD being compared. If this is the case, then, they could manipulate choosing placebo pill that actually has higher side effects than the AD being compared, so it can pass the stage and being marketed as a better AD.
Right now I am so confused.
Does anyone have any insight about this?
 
The placebo effect has no differentiation between 'intended effects' and 'side effects', that's an artificial distinction that we make. Placebos are inactive, the whole point is that the mind is highly suggestible and unpredictable; by comparing something against a placebo, you need a statistically significantly greater/lower rate of an outcome for it to be scientifically 'proven' to be due to the active substance rather than chance/placebo/etc. :)

Does that explain it?
 
^ What Divine said. The mind is a powerful thing; in fact there is an interesting article on the front page of cracked.com about it right now. The placebo effect costs drug companies millions of dollars in drugs that didn't pass trials because they weren't that much more effective then the placebo, and some think that the effect is even getting stronger.
 
Just a bit off. The Placebo Effect works off the supposition that the mind IS predictable.

Rx Marketing takes it into effect when desim
gning a product. Capsules are perceived as more potent than tablets. Larger tablets are seen as more potent than small tablets. Blister packs are imagined to contain much more potent substances than do bottles. Sweet tasting tablets are seen as less potent than bitter tasting tablets. The colours orange, red and yellow are considered to be the strongest potency of any other coloured tablet or capsule.

In terms of illicit marketing, the smartest distributors realise presentation and packaging is everything. For example, most users assume that a "rocked" powder is purer than loose powder. They never stop to think about their sugar bowls. In the US East Coast Heroin Scene the best selling glassines are those with stamps of current events, like right after 9/11 the name Bin Laden was used by many dealers because people naturally assume "newer" equals "better." A small number of dealers double bag. They take glassines and place them in tiny heat sealed clear plastic. Though it DOES offer real utility against tampering, moisture and humidity it is naturally perceived as containing purer heroin as well. Back in the 60s when Sands and Owsley (RIP) were tabletting up they used to laugh at people attributing different qualities to different coloured tablets. Each was dosed exactly the same. On and on and on.

A few things involved: Conditioning, Environment, Expectation, and of course susceptibility because statistically speaking- across the board- only 33% of people are vulnerable to the effect.

I have to add that it doesn't only apply to medicine. People who believe themselves hexed can end up thinking themselves to death within days. Conversely, people have been cured of very aggressive cancer simply by being told they are being given a very powerful, new anti-cancer medication (though that does involve medication as well).
 
i read that the colour of a pill has a big impact as well. thats why they make valium blue because apparently if they are red, they are less effective.

placebo effect is what homeopathy relies on is it not?
 
Not if you are a Homeopathic practicioner hahaha. Seriously though, that is a great example. If people believe a substance is truly helpful it sometimes translates into real improvement. Personally I find homeopathy pathetic. I mean, you can't make something out of nothing. To bank one's health on "water memoury" is insane.
 
i read that the substances are so diluted that in order to get just one molecule of the supposedly active substance, youd have to have a sphere of water the size of the entire solar system. thats how diluted it is.

also, its not based on any scientific principles so basically, its just made up as they go along, they dont test it or anything.

recently i was feeling a bit rough and tired and my girlfriends auntie recommended a homeopathic treatment and i was a bit of a dick and was like 'dont you know homeopathy is total bullshit'.
 
^ Yeah that's about right depending on the 'dilution' of it. The dilution that the founder favored was at about that scale.

They also believe that the smaller the dose is, the more powerful it is.
 
rachamim said:
Just a bit off. The Placebo Effect works off the supposition that the mind IS predictable.

Rx Marketing takes it into effect when desim
gning a product. Capsules are perceived as more potent than tablets. Larger tablets are seen as more potent than small tablets. Blister packs are imagined to contain much more potent substances than do bottles. Sweet tasting tablets are seen as less potent than bitter tasting tablets. The colours orange, red and yellow are considered to be the strongest potency of any other coloured tablet or capsule.

In terms of illicit marketing, the smartest distributors realise presentation and packaging is everything. For example, most users assume that a "rocked" powder is purer than loose powder. They never stop to think about their sugar bowls. In the US East Coast Heroin Scene the best selling glassines are those with stamps of current events, like right after 9/11 the name Bin Laden was used by many dealers because people naturally assume "newer" equals "better." A small number of dealers double bag. They take glassines and place them in tiny heat sealed clear plastic. Though it DOES offer real utility against tampering, moisture and humidity it is naturally perceived as containing purer heroin as well. Back in the 60s when Sands and Owsley (RIP) were tabletting up they used to laugh at people attributing different qualities to different coloured tablets. Each was dosed exactly the same. On and on and on.

A few things involved: Conditioning, Environment, Expectation, and of course susceptibility because statistically speaking- across the board- only 33% of people are vulnerable to the effect.

I have to add that it doesn't only apply to medicine. People who believe themselves hexed can end up thinking themselves to death within days. Conversely, people have been cured of very aggressive cancer simply by being told they are being given a very powerful, new anti-cancer medication (though that does involve medication as well).
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff :) Do you have a cite for only 1/3 people being susceptible? I thought it was higher.

Lazyscience said:
placebo effect is what homeopathy relies on is it not?
Click to expand...

In most people's opinions, yes. There are also other effects in play (the names of which I forget).. for example people whose conditions get better for other reasons and are then attributed to the 'treatment', or that in circles of people who are likely to use CAMs the success stories tend to get much greater weight than others, etc.

Mr Blonde said:
^ Yeah that's about right depending on the 'dilution' of it. The dilution that the founder favored was at about that scale.

They also believe that the smaller the dose is, the more powerful it is.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know what this belief is based on? I'm guessing nothing, but I'm curious. Never really studied homeopathy at all..
 
^ I know that they believe that like cures like, that is if you are suffering from a fever they will give you something known to cause a fever at a homeopathic 'dose'. I think they believe that the miniscule doses will help your body better fight off whatever is actually causing your fever.

Modern homeopaths believe some crazy shit about how water can remember what molecules used to be in it and that this then allows the incredibly diluted water to have a therapeutic effect.

It gives me a headache!
 
to the a placebo, the pill must be exactly the same as the test pill, but just without the test substance, so it will be just binders and colour.

One could say that placebo effect did have some influence in pills, people saying pills were mdxx when they went, gave impression (dxm bzp shit), but these days when u hear people say mdxx pills, you call bullshit unless u see test results and try for yourself
 
I can imagine how much profit Companies that manufacture Homeopathic supplements.

I've just got a free sample, of Tissue Salts ( for skin complexity)+Nail polis+ Oral Spray sublingual for anxiety,+ oil for dry scalp.
It's nothing more only an inactive substances I would say. It's a Placebo effect. But the Company presents the bottles and boxes convincingly attractive to consumers.

When i calculated the active ingredient, 1 Silica + 1 Magnesium phosphate 50mg could make 200 bottles and more of those Homeopathic products.

Now It's really a Placebo.
 
As for what Homeopathy is based upon, the founder ingested some tree bark used to successfully treat malaria. He then co-incidentally found himself developing a fever, fatigue and chills. In his mind the bark that cured malaria had caused it. Ergo reverse the dynamic. It is total nonsense.

On the figure of 33% being susceptible to the Placebo Effect, I will try to find an online reference. It depends on external issues like environment, cultural frame of reference, etc. If you look at Haiti, the vast majority are vulnerable to the effect where as in other societies the numbers may be much lower. The 33% is across the board, irrespective of culture, etc.
 
Here is a reference for the 33% figure:

"The Biochemical Basis for the Placebo Effect" Raul de la Fuente Fernandez and A.Jon Stoessl [sic]

"Science and Engineering Ethics" 10(1)pp.143-50 January 2004
 
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