What exactly are the dangers in low-high DXM use?

[~kira~]

I'm posting in hopes of learning something new, as well as helping others learn the effects of DXM use on the body. I read up a lot on DXM as far as "how bad is it" etc. But everything I always find tends to be the same. Someone asks a question, and someone answers. The questions have no detail, and the answers are usually " you are stupid for abusing DXM" etc. I want details!!!


Now my personal use of DXM has not exceeded 120mg except for 1 time. The one time I ended up taking 120mg along with 1 shot of alcohol, a special cookie, and some green. Bad idea nonetheless.

So anyway, I wonder what DXM harms body wise? I always seem to see people saying DXM causes olney's lesion's, but others say it makes them think better. Also, I want to know if it hurts the kidneys, liver and heart in any way? Would it hurt these organs in high doses, rather than low doses?


I try to avoid taking more than 120mg, because I don't like the trippy type of trip, scares the hell out of me. But I do like the music/sound/social interaction between 80-120mg. I'm hoping this isn't a dose that can be bad for my organs. But for the people who take 400mg+, I wonder what kind of damage, if any is happening. I have used it for the last 3 days, in 60mg each night, didn't really see any different effect, other than today I was a bit less social for the first few hours after waking up, and feeling really groggy.

Does anyone have any opinion, or proof of anything? I don't want to hear the "you are stupid for using DXM comments." I feel like in fairly low doses it can be a good life changing experience.

And while I am posting this, I came across this very interesting thread of a guy who did DXM for 5 months straight. Seemed to mess him up physiologically, but no mention of organ issues beside stomach IBS problems.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/20i5s0/i_used_dxm_every_day_for_5_months_ama/

 

[~kira~]

I will also note, that when I took 80mg on DXM last night, I drank a good bit of water to stay hydrated, did not have trouble peeing and today felt good, the night before I didn't drink a ton of water and felt a little off and dehydrated the next day.

 

[ThomasD]

I think you're overthinking this a bit. I've never actually tried DXM, but know enough about the effects to tell you unless you have any health conditions, doses of DXM below around 300mg are completely safe if consumed alone so I wouldn't even worry about it unless you have any specific health concerns... you're doing the right thing staying plenty hydrated etc during the trip. I've noticed from reports that DXM can cause a lot of dehydration in higher doses so be careful with that.

I think the people who shame on DXM think the user is a typical high school student desperate to get high, because DXM and DPH are the most common legal highs for this age group - but if you know what you're doing and you're just interested in the experiences and not just trying to escape, then I don't see an issue with low to moderate DXM use.

Also be careful if you have any mental health concerns as well.

I wouldn't worry about Olneys Lesions, that kind of stuff only occurs when dissociatives are abused in strong doses.

 

[ThomasD]

Also, i'd recommend spacing your doses out a bit more. Using it daily is where issues start to arise.

 

[Tranced]

You raise an interesting question (i.e is brain damage from low-moderate DXM use actually documented?), but my personal experience is that DXM greatly exasperated negative weed symptoms that I was experiencing for weeks-nonths after taking it. It seemed to make me feel disconnected from reality slightly, depressed, heightened my level of cognitive decline, and gave me a few weeks of ridiculous synchronicity. You could tell my system had been jolted by a heavy dissociative.

The effects were actually incredibly enjoyable, and worked much like a normal psychedelic trip, except with a dissociative twist. I came up, started getting intensifying OEV's and abstract thoughts, then levelled out. Time slowed down and I felt I was living in a state of euphoria on/as some kind of tropical beach paradise.

 

[Moxious]

Just anecdotal but I've taken doses up to 600+ mg and have not noticed any ill after-effects, either physiologically or mentally. Have done these kind of doses only maybe a half dozen times though and fairly well spaced-out, no more than once a month if that. Also important to keep hydrated but in general it has always felt fairly benign aside from GI distress.

The wiki page on Olney's lesions has some good info for this. The citations for DXM are pretty well all over the map. Olney's lesions were found in rats at doses of 75mg/kg but not at 120mg/kg or 400mg/kg day. Also talks about the controversy in generalizing to humans for this particular process.

It sounds like you'd have to, as expected, take some very high/frequent doses to get lesions, but the jury is still out to some degree. For reference on that same page there is a quote saying that it takes a dose of 40mg/kg of ketamine for lesions to begin appearing in rat brains, which would be equivalent to around a half gram of ketamine for a 60kg human

 

[DrugOmen]

Olney's lesions have never been found in humans but that's not to say its not a possibility.

I personally have taken 1000+ mg dosages because of high tolerance from abusing MXE but I don't recommend that, just stating what I've experienced.

The only side effects I have ever had were purely GI issues the next couple of days because of the syrup which is made up of harsh dyes and such and probably not from the DXM itself.

Actually on the contrary, I experienced an elevated mood lift and creative juices the following days.

 

[~kira~]

I think you're overthinking this a bit. I've never actually tried DXM, but know enough about the effects to tell you unless you have any health conditions, doses of DXM below around 300mg are completely safe if consumed alone so I wouldn't even worry about it unless you have any specific health concerns... you're doing the right thing staying plenty hydrated etc during the trip. I've noticed from reports that DXM can cause a lot of dehydration in higher doses so be careful with that.

I think the people who shame on DXM think the user is a typical high school student desperate to get high, because DXM and DPH are the most common legal highs for this age group - but if you know what you're doing and you're just interested in the experiences and not just trying to escape, then I don't see an issue with low to moderate DXM use.

Also be careful if you have any mental health concerns as well.

I wouldn't worry about Olneys Lesions, that kind of stuff only occurs when dissociatives are abused in strong doses.

Hello, thanks for the reply! I probably am, but Its always better to be safe than never with drugs lol. I don't have any health conditions myself, but my family has a strong history of heart disease. But for the most part since I was 21 I stopped drinking soda a lot (now 26) and mainly just drink water, and hot green tea. I try and stay hydrated as much as possible. I will admit, sometimes I take it just to escape for everything, but other times I just like the way it makes me feel, and makes music sound. Which I'm trying to make music a possible career choice, so I feel like it helps me understand it better I guess. lol
And yeah, I won't do any more dxm this close to my other times. 3 days in a row is enough. I actually start a job tomorrow, so once I start that it will probably be spaced out every few weeks or months.

You raise an interesting question (i.e is brain damage from low-moderate DXM use actually documented?), but my personal experience is that DXM greatly exasperated negative weed symptoms that I was experiencing for weeks-nonths after taking it. It seemed to make me feel disconnected from reality slightly, depressed, heightened my level of cognitive decline, and gave me a few weeks of ridiculous synchronicity. You could tell my system had been jolted by a heavy dissociative.

The effects were actually incredibly enjoyable, and worked much like a normal psychedelic trip, except with a dissociative twist. I came up, started getting intensifying OEV's and abstract thoughts, then levelled out. Time slowed down and I felt I was living in a state of euphoria on/as some kind of tropical beach paradise.

That trip sounds pretty interesting! The one crazy possible psychedelic trip I had was the one I mentioned in the post above, when I had mixed a few things into the element. Basically started having an anxiety attack after a few hours. Their was a car with loud exhaust that drove by and while I was in my room I could feel the vibration of the exhaust in my body, and any sounds I heard, I could also feel. Very weird..crazy time. Pretty cool now that I look back on that night lol.
But as far as mental state, usually the day after I am not to talkative to anyone until about 3pm when I wake up more. I always feel that slight glow the next day which is relaxing! But then again, this is with 120mg or less.

Just anecdotal but I've taken doses up to 600+ mg and have not noticed any ill after-effects, either physiologically or mentally. Have done these kind of doses only maybe a half dozen times though and fairly well spaced-out, no more than once a month if that. Also important to keep hydrated but in general it has always felt fairly benign aside from GI distress.

The wiki page on Olney's lesions has some good info for this. The citations for DXM are pretty well all over the map. Olney's lesions were found in rats at doses of 75mg/kg but not at 120mg/kg or 400mg/kg day. Also talks about the controversy in generalizing to humans for this particular process.

It sounds like you'd have to, as expected, take some very high/frequent doses to get lesions, but the jury is still out to some degree. For reference on that same page there is a quote saying that it takes a dose of 40mg/kg of ketamine for lesions to begin appearing in rat brains, which would be equivalent to around a half gram of ketamine for a 60kg human

Do you have any health issues, whether hereditary or personal? Or are you a healthy individual? Always curious when I hear people talk about doing higher doses of dxm. I could be wrong, but I don't think lesions have been proven with dxm users, right? So that mouse thing is kind of interesting. Wonder if it is like a long term effect that doesn't show up right away in humans? (if it even is true that it can cause it.)

Olney's lesions have never been found in humans but that's not to say its not a possibility.

I personally have taken 1000+ mg dosages because of high tolerance from abusing MXE but I don't recommend that, just stating what I've experienced.

The only side effects I have ever had were purely GI issues the next couple of days because of the syrup which is made up of harsh dyes and such and probably not from the DXM itself.

Actually on the contrary, I experienced an elevated mood lift and creative juices the following days.

Yeah I have a bad GI tract and my first few times with dxm really made Gi / IBS rampant on my body for a good 2-4 months. But that also could be my at the time bad diet of food. lol.

 

[~kira~]

On a side note. I might start taking Milk Thistle. I have heard from a friend that it can help heal your liver (he had almost needed a transplant but took MT and is now a healthy individual. I read last night that if anything dxm is bad for your liver and kidneys (again not sure if that would be a crazy high dose or what) But maybe MT could help reverse any ill effects that happen to your liver.

 

[Moxious]

Do you have any health issues, whether hereditary or personal? Or are you a healthy individual? Always curious when I hear people talk about doing higher doses of dxm. I could be wrong, but I don't think lesions have been proven with dxm users, right? So that mouse thing is kind of interesting. Wonder if it is like a long term effect that doesn't show up right away in humans? (if it even is true that it can cause it.)

Olney's lesions have never been found in humans, period, as DrugOmen said. It does seem that DXM at least less reliably induces Olney's lesions, compared to something like MK-801 or Ketamine.

As far as I know I'm perfectly healthy. The only ailment I can think of is that I have a few spots of psoriasis but that's genetic. I was diagnosed with chronic depression as a teenager but I believe it to have been acute.

 

[lazydullard]

I used DXM daily for like five years. I now have a stutter when I used to be a sweet talker, and my vocabulary has shrunk. Also depression is worse than it was before.

There seems to have been no effect on my body, however.

 

[whos there]

of all the many substances ive used, after meth dxm is the hardest on your body and brain. my day after a maybe 600mg dose leaves me feeling super burnt, almost retarded. holding conversations is extremely difficult, like the words are there but its hard to make them come out my mouth in a way that makes sense to others. probably because dex severs the connection between body and mind...that being said its incredibly effective for opiate wd...one dose will carry me through the night and all through the next day with basically zero wd symptoms. generally i feel the damage to my body right after ingesting dex and somewhat throughout the trip, while it opens my mind to some really unique concepts and visualizations. then after the comedown my body seems fine and the damage is focused in my brain, ie difficulty holding conversations, generally feeling brain dead. guess thats the price we pay for playing with dissociatives, id look into extracting pure dxm if youre woried about health effects because yes, that shits hard on you.

 

[Moxious]

I'd hope we can avoid referring to subjective unpleasant feelings as objective evidence of damage. Anecdotally it seems there are people who feel great the next day and people who feel shitty the next day, which means we can't conclude anything from that. We'd need a better understanding of their metabolism and/or co-administered drugs.

Especially given that I'd agree with you that most of your ill effects came from ingesting cough syrup, not from DXM itself I'd wager.

 

[treezy z]

I did DXM for 6 months (4x/week) one time before I got into PCP heavy, it will make you a little dim-witted and wacky mentally to overdo it like this but it's not permanent, I've found periods of sobriety fix these types of issues.

There's some talk that HBR can cause bromism http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-398207.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromism

Also the cough syrup has a shitload of sugar but DXM comes in other forms.

A couple times a month, even higher doses is harmless IMO.

The main problem with DXM I had was sexual dysfunction, it made my dick numb so it was very difficult to maintain an erection. Probably due to SSRI effects since I don't generally have this problem on dissociatives (if you get sky high you won't even think about sex, talking low doses.) That's why I stopped using it.

 

[dextrohex]

Short/long term memory loss/groping for words depending on how much you use it due to the (possible, not proven!) neurotoxicity and other factors, definitely heard about feeling slow after dxm use/abuse. Issues with urinating, loss of appetite/need for water, etc. which are both usually pretty temporary. Worst of all is probably HPPD or general remaining visuals. The CEVs and slight OEVs remain for some, up to months, even without real abuse or addiction. Can confirm first hand, very strange. A few people claim to have permanent HPPD from abuse of it.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

If not abused i dont think dxm is that bad.
I use dissios on and off, never binge more then a day or two and usually take at least a month of after use.

Ive done several 2g dxm trips where im tripping for over 24hours with no sleep untill after that.

Sure im robowalking for 2days and feeling Friedrichs the fudge upped.
But after that i feel really good and not dumber or weaker in any way.


But i eat healthy and train every day (except when im messed up from drugs)

So i recommend having some kind of physical training oriented lifestyle if you going to mess around with drugs.

 

[Moxious]

Short/long term memory loss/groping for words depending on how much you use it due to the neurotoxicity and other factors, definitely heard about feeling slow after dxm use/abuse. Issues with urinating, loss of appetite/need for water, etc. which are both usually pretty temporary. Worst of all is probably HPPD or general remaining visuals. The CEVs and slight OEVs remain for some, up to months, even without real abuse or addiction. Can confirm first hand, very strange. A few people claim to have permanent HPPD from abuse of it.

Again, neurotoxicity hasn't really been proven so can we stop claiming it's such a certain thing? Memory loss/aphasia isn't necessarily mediated by neurotoxicity, we can agree those effects seem to appear in chronic DXM users though.

HPPD is a possible effect but I disagree that it's the worst, I have a fair bit from across my psychedelic use and it doesn't interfere with anything or bother me whatsoever, it's actually quite entertaining. If it were to a degree where you couldn't see I could see that being an issue though lol

 

[dextrohex]

Again, neurotoxicity hasn't really been proven so can we stop claiming it's such a certain thing? Memory loss/aphasia isn't necessarily mediated by neurotoxicity, we can agree those effects seem to appear in chronic DXM users though.

HPPD is a possible effect but I disagree that it's the worst, I have a fair bit from across my psychedelic use and it doesn't interfere with anything or bother me whatsoever, it's actually quite entertaining. If it were to a degree where you couldn't see I could see that being an issue though lol

Oh shoot, I've heard that spread around in the community and didn't know if it was proven or not, thanks for correcting me!! And also it's not necessarily the worst, but after months of a mild version of it it gets really agitating when I can't peacefully sleep at night because of shady figures/spiders or CEVs. Trying to get to the bathroom at 3 AM = hell

 

[Moxious]

Hmm yeah that would get quite disconcerting, my HPPD consists mostly of visual 'snow' so there's not much to be agitated by and it's only when staring at a blank surface. What was your usage like to get you to that point? I don't have any CEVs really except what's always been there, the electric-blue and blood-red remnants of whatever I was just looking at.