What ever happened to PCP?

[Delmonte421]

You mean Tookie. Well but so there's Big Lurch and there's that one Wu-Tang associate who chopped off his own member high on PCP…

ya thats exactly what im talking bavout. Fucking crazy right. I was ready stories about Tookie, he was a fucking bad dude. He tried to turn his life around at the end but there is no way you can take back point blank shotgunning a group of people at a fucking convent store. Took me awhile to find a good article on him. They really did erase him. goes to show that crime will not leave you a legacy as would being a scientist

 

[unodelacosa]

ya thats exactly what im talking bavout. Fucking crazy right. I was ready stories about Tookie, he was a fucking bad dude. He tried to turn his life around at the end but there is no way you can take back point blank shotgunning a group of people at a fucking convent store. Took me awhile to find a good article on him. They really did erase him. goes to show that crime will not leave you a legacy as would being a scientist

True, and maybe he didn't redeem himself for these atrocities, but not for nothing, he did bring about an important truce between bloods and crips in '96. Up until then, there was a lot more gang murder in the streets, especially in south central LA. Thanks for sharing the link!

 

[Delmonte421]

True, and maybe he didn't redeem himself for these atrocities, but not for nothing, he did bring about an important truce between bloods and crips in '96. Up until then, there was a lot more gang murder in the streets, especially in south central LA. Thanks for sharing the link!

No problem, I like reading abut his story. He was real into lifting as am i. But god damn I anti smoking a blunt of dust, that I just robbed from a drug dealer cause I MF TOOKIE. That guy had NO respect for human life until they put him behind bars. Yes he did try to do good once he was inside but that if you ask me, was to save himelf. Idk you are right that thing in 96 was a HUGE deal. He also made children books LOL

 

[unodelacosa]

No problem, I like reading abut his story. He was real into lifting as am i. But god damn I anti smoking a blunt of dust, that I just robbed from a drug dealer cause I MF TOOKIE. That guy had NO respect for human life until they put him behind bars. Yes he did try to do good once he was inside but that if you ask me, was to save himelf. Idk you are right that thing in 96 was a HUGE deal. He also made children books LOL

Yeah I figure he mellowed out over time, and behind bars or not, and for self-serving purposes or not, he did bring about some good in this world and eased some pain. In the end, he was still executed for his crimes via capital punishment courtesy of the state. For good or ill, he paid his debt with his life. May his victim's rest in peace, may he as well, and may his victims' families find solace, healing, and ultimately forgiveness.

 

[Fertile]

I know a couple of people in the UK who acquired and tested PCP. They both complained that it causes far too much loco-stimulation (although maybe akathisia is a better term?) & related DRI issues as well as retrograde and anterograde amnesia. There also seems to be a loss of executive function - so people have no judgement, the urge to move, no sense of pain AND potent central stimulation.

I'm sure people can see that it doesn't sound like a good idea, does it? I mean, if you take too much ketamine or methoxetamine, you end up somewhere on the Glasgow Coma scale but PCP has a window below that which seems to be really unfavourable.

I note that like ketamine, the (S) enantiomer is responsible for the NMDA activity, the (R) enantiomer is responsible for DRI activity so it would be possible to resolve the isomers to change the overall character of it's effects. I suppose benocyclidine might estimate the stimulant (DRI) activity of PCP as that demonstrates the steep dose/response curve of the DRI action. I believe some fake Es had benocyclidine as the only active, which shows why have no trust in any street drug.

I believe Larry Levan (DJ at The Paradise Garage), a couple of former NFL stars & and one of those idiots from Jackass all battled PCP dependence.

A 2021 article details how PCP is becoming popular again in DC Baltimore and Philadelphia. I notice that there are multiple commercial ports near these cities and I happen to know that the Chinese will supply piperidine and label it as 1-methyl pyrrolidine. I'm also aware that Mexican law does not control precursors. But either way, the fact that large amounts of piperidine being acquired suggests that precursor control laws in the US are failing.

I'm sure that chemists will recognise that the synthesis is simple and that their are many intermediates that do not appear to be controlled. Given it's potency, if a 'dipped' cigarette sells for $20, it's going to be hugely profitable. After all, a common dose is 5-10mg. There seems to be small user bases in many US cities, but because of it's social stigma, harvesting accurate data is hard.

If I had friends living in those cities, I would be concerned. If someone takes an appropriate dose then they feel relaxed, emotionally dissociated and 'floaty'. But if they take a little more, it rapidly tips over into an overstimulated paranoid and psychotic state. It does sound like users are more aware of this but there will always be people who automatically think more = better. I've had friend became psychotic due to cocaine, (meth)amphetamine and other stimulants and I've had friends who became psychotic due to mental health issue and if I hadn't been told in advance, I wouldn't have known the cause. But both had some executive function.

I freely admit that PCP scares me. I've not heard of another recreational drug that has resulted in the user cutting off their own genitals (Andre Johnson) or otherwise self-harming. People are vastly more likely to harm themselves than to harm others.

 

[Delmonte421]

I know a couple of people in the UK who acquired and tested PCP. They both complained that it causes far too much loco-stimulation (although maybe akathisia is a better term?) & related DRI issues as well as retrograde and anterograde amnesia. There also seems to be a loss of executive function - so people have no judgement, the urge to move, no sense of pain AND potent central stimulation.

I'm sure people can see that it doesn't sound like a good idea, does it? I mean, if you take too much ketamine or methoxetamine, you end up somewhere on the Glasgow Coma scale but PCP has a window below that which seems to be really unfavourable.

I note that like ketamine, the (S) enantiomer is responsible for the NMDA activity, the (R) enantiomer is responsible for DRI activity so it would be possible to resolve the isomers to change the overall character of it's effects. I suppose benocyclidine might estimate the stimulant (DRI) activity of PCP as that demonstrates the steep dose/response curve of the DRI action. I believe some fake Es had benocyclidine as the only active, which shows why have no trust in any street drug.

I believe Larry Levan (DJ at The Paradise Garage), a couple of former NFL stars & and one of those idiots from Jackass all battled PCP dependence.

A 2021 article details how PCP is becoming popular again in DC Baltimore and Philadelphia. I notice that there are multiple commercial ports near these cities and I happen to know that the Chinese will supply piperidine and label it as 1-methyl pyrrolidine. I'm also aware that Mexican law does not control precursors. But either way, the fact that large amounts of piperidine being acquired suggests that precursor control laws in the US are failing.

I'm sure that chemists will recognise that the synthesis is simple and that their are many intermediates that do not appear to be controlled. Given it's potency, if a 'dipped' cigarette sells for $20, it's going to be hugely profitable. After all, a common dose is 5-10mg. There seems to be small user bases in many US cities, but because of it's social stigma, harvesting accurate data is hard.

If I had friends living in those cities, I would be concerned. If someone takes an appropriate dose then they feel relaxed, emotionally dissociated and 'floaty'. But if they take a little more, it rapidly tips over into an overstimulated paranoid and psychotic state. It does sound like users are more aware of this but there will always be people who automatically think more = better. I've had friend became psychotic due to cocaine, (meth)amphetamine and other stimulants and I've had friends who became psychotic due to mental health issue and if I hadn't been told in advance, I wouldn't have known the cause. But both had some executive function.

I freely admit that PCP scares me. I've not heard of another recreational drug that has resulted in the user cutting off their own genitals (Andre Johnson) or otherwise self-harming. People are vastly more likely to harm themselves than to harm others.

I smoked PCP twice in my life and It was already dipped in oregano. I was 14 y/o when we did it and we smoked a blunt of dust which did nothing for me then we took the remainder and out it in a bong, yes I know we were fuckoign crazy. After my first bing rip I remember looking up and being like DAMN, given we were all in a car hot coxing angel dust LOL the smell of magic marker will never leave me nose

 

[Tranced]

I asked this very same question, then zophen/b9 told me he'd given evad some for me to try. Never ever known someone in the UK to have it. Ever. Was 2008-2011 or so. I have a hunch it was an early batch from one of the analogues, before they went public. Ask questions on bluelight and who knows what will happen. Unfortunately Evad was very eager to smoke it im a joint "like the hood" in a joint in the hood and it didn't really do much. speculation, speculation.

Whats a dose? This was like 10-20mg iirc.

 

[unodelacosa]

I freely admit that PCP scares me. I've not heard of another recreational drug that has resulted in the user cutting off their own genitals (Andre Johnson) or otherwise self-harming.

A girl in the U.K. was fucked up on GHB and she pulled out most of her teeth absent-mindedly with a pair of pliers one night, [EDIT: according to legend]. So while rare, yes, it's definitely not the norm, to say the least. Here, dose matters so much.

People are vastly more likely to harm themselves than to harm others.

Facts. This is why I fear Datura aka Jimson Weed aka Deadly Nightshade aka Belladonna…

 

[Delmonte421]

A girl in the U.K. was fucked up on GHB and she pulled out most of her teeth absent-mindedly with a pair of pliers one night. So while rare, yes, it's definitely not the norm, to say the least. Here, dose matters so much.


Facts. This is why I fear Datura aka Jimson Weed aka Deadly Nightshade aka Belladonna…

So I was readying about belladonna and its poisonous berries or whatever..... what can you extract and/or do with it?

 

[unodelacosa]

So I was readying about belladonna and its poisonous berries or whatever..... what can you extract and/or do with it?

Fuck. Shit. Up. Delirious states = hella dangerous. Massive NOPE, trust. It is said no one fails to regrets the decision to try it.

 

[Fertile]

I'm an idiot - of course PCP is achiral. Someone drew it as chiral in my reference and my brain was in neutral.

So ALL of it will be a DRI and ALL of it will be an NMDA antagonist.

3-OH PCP seems like a much better idea. To be smoked (and possibly during synthesis) the phenolic -OH would need to be protected as an ether or an ester, The former is also a reasonable drug in it's own right. The body will O-demethylate and the bare phenol allows the body excrete the drug so duration is much lower.

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm an idiot - of course PCP is achiral. Someone drew it as chiral in my reference and my brain was in neutral.

So ALL of it will be a DRI and ALL of it will be an NMDA antagonist.

3-OH PCP seems like a much better idea. To be smoked (and possibly during synthesis) the phenolic -OH would need to be protected as an ether or an ester, The former is also a reasonable drug in it's own right. The body will O-demethylate and the bare phenol allows the body excrete the drug so duration is much lower.

3-HO-PCP is a magical substance that is super kickass great stuff. Right up there with MXE and 3-MeO-PCP, to me…

 

[Fertile]

In which case the acetyl ester would be the appropriate protecting group. It might actually result in a compound that is even more potent with a faster onset but shorter duration than PCP.

I believe it's technically legal in the US but I know well that the production of PCP and similarly simple syntheses are always governed by expedience. I am also prepared to bet that someone has telescoped the synthesis down to a single step using a minimum of solvent AND a cheap solvent at that.

Searches show that there have been at least 3 PCP labs detected in the last decade. No details on the route but 1 was found after a fire and one because neighbours complained of 'strong chemical small'. Generally the defendants were in their 40s, 50s or 60s.

Thinking of a highly flammable solvent with a low BP and strong odour and it SOUNDS like diethyl ether. I bet that the Grignard or aryllithium reagent was already dissolve in the solvent...

I should mention that PCP is also just about the most hazardous synthesis to undertake at scale. 'Ether fire' are words from a nightmare.

 

[unodelacosa]

In which case the acetyl ester would be the appropriate protecting group. It might actually result in a compound that is even more potent with a faster onset but shorter duration than PCP.

I believe it's technically legal in the US but I know well that the production of PCP and similarly simple syntheses are always governed by expedience. I am also prepared to bet that someone has telescoped the synthesis down to a single step using a minimum of solvent AND a cheap solvent at that.

This is a fascinating subject. I guess this—in part—is what I found so alluring about the one-pot synth to trans-4-MAR via PPA + KOCN → Urea Intermediate + HCl → voila!. But considering the COPD issue you mentioned, perhaps to hell w/ 4-MAR. Le sigh… oh well.

Searches show that there have been at least 3 PCP labs detected in the last decade. No details on the route but 1 was found after a fire and one because neighbours complained of 'strong chemical small'.

To me, PCP freebase is the epitome of a "strong chemical smell", so I'm not surprised by this. Sherm smells awful in this state, and I mean awful. It's a powerfully nauseous smell at times.

But Good God, man. Just a couple of drags from a fresh dipper will lop your head off, attach it to the bumper of an alien spacecraft, scramble up your brains with a spatula and send you on your merry way… in the best way possible, that is. Indeed, it can be quite a profound experience.

Generally the defendants were in their 40s, 50s or 60s.

This doesn't surprise me, either.

Thinking of a highly flammable solvent with a low BP and strong odour and it SOUNDS like diethyl ether. I bet that the Grignard or aryllithium reagent was already dissolve in the solvent...

I bet you're right.

I should mention that PCP is also just about the most hazardous synthesis to undertake at scale. 'Ether fire' are words from a nightmare.

Granted, but there are far worse substances, ones that can require a blast shield and other precautions and are known to be seemingly fickle and capricious.

I cannot wrap my head around how insanely dangerous it was in the 17th century for the Royal Society of Natural Philosophers – Robert Boyle, Robert Hooke, Isaac Newton, Christopher Wren, John Wilkins, etc. Crazy.

 

[Jayandrew0624]

I've heard some older Bluelighters raving about how great PCP was when it used to be widespread. One member I talked to calls it 'the Rolls Royce of dissociatives'. So I wonder why it seems to be non-existent these days.

The media scare stories and freakouts don't seem any worse than meth or the pyrovalerone drugs, yet those are everywhere and plain ol' PCP is nowhere to be found. Is the reasoning here just the same as MXE? Dissos are hard to synth for a small lab and big labs are focusing on the legal analogues? Or is PCP just not as good for most people as those who tried it remember it being?

Well it’s still around actually, I’m in southern USA, and actual PCP, not an analogue or rc version is available, but only in really bad parts of town. PCP has always been sold in liquid form where I am, and still is, $20 can buy a small amber vial of liquid and usually 3/4ths of a clove cigarette included. That vial is enough to soak probably 1 full cigarette. And get 3-4 people very loaded if you’re into pcp. I’ve tried it a couple of times and it’s not my cup of tea, I’d rather use ketamine if im going to use a dissociative

 

[unodelacosa]

Well it’s still around actually, I’m in southern USA, and actual PCP, not an analogue or rc version is available, but only in really bad parts of town. PCP has always been sold in liquid form where I am, and still is, $20 can buy a small amber vial of liquid and usually 3/4ths of a clove cigarette included. That vial is enough to soak probably 1 full cigarette. And get 3-4 people very loaded if you’re into pcp. I’ve tried it a couple of times and it’s not my cup of tea, I’d rather use ketamine if im going to use a dissociative

Oh I'm well aware. I can get it where I live, too (NYC), and similarly it's only available in the shittiest, most dangerous hoods, uptown in the Bronx. Or I can drive down to DC or Philly to scoop it as well. Anything from laced mint leaves to dippers, to vials for DIY dippers, lol. I'm totally into occasional PCP use. It's powerful enough that I don't want to use it too often, plus that seems mad dangerous.

I've heard of it in ATL, but I suppose it's also in Florida, and probably, idk, TN, too.

 

[Jayandrew0624]

Oh I'm well aware. I can get it where I live, too (NYC), and similarly it's only available in the shittiest, most dangerous hoods, uptown in the Bronx. Or I can drive down to DC or Philly to scoop it as well. Anything from laced mint leaves to dippers, to vials for DIY dippers, lol. I'm totally into occasional PCP use. It's powerful enough that I don't want to use it too often, plus that seems mad dangerous.

I've heard of it in ATL, but I suppose it's also in Florida, and probably, idk, TN, too.

Well down south we border Mexico, and I’ve never seen it in mint leaves or any other way then Liquid inside amber vials

 

[Fertile]

Yes - Boyle (the experimenter) and indeed Klapotke at LMU have dealt with much more energetic and toxic materials....

But NOT at the kind of scale that PCP manufacture employs.

I tried searching for images pf clandestine PCP labs. All images were of labs entirely destroyed by fire. Is that a coincidence?

They all seem to be obtaining material in 55 gallon drums. That fits, since all of the routes to PCP need a lot of solvent per mole of product produced.

 

[unodelacosa]

Well down south we border Mexico, and I’ve never seen it in mint leaves or any other way then Liquid inside amber vials

I imagine that's b/c it's coming from one source, prolly a lab in Mexico.

 

[Fertile]

While not providing sources, the appropriate Grignard reagent is widely available as a 1 molar solution in THF. The enamine is also widely available so I suggest that someone is forming the iminium salt, most likely the bromide which is a stable solid.

Thus the synthesis is telescoped down to a 1-pot reaction. The MgBr2 would simply fall out of solution (that's why I said the iminium salt was likely to be the bromide).

But THF has quite a low density...

i have to admit though, if a dipped cigarette with 25mg of PCP freebase on it selling for $20 does make it feasible to work at a smaller scale. Not bench, but pilot.