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What do you think drives us to get addicted to the specific drugs we choose?

There's a good book that goes into this, written by a doctor who's life's work has been addiction, withdrawal and detox



He can basically work out someone's neurochemistry based on which drugs they prefer.
 
I never understood how people can ONLY do stimulants. The second I get a stimulants high I am trying to get to the end where i take benzos or opioids to smooth it out.

Anyone pure stimulant users can explain how you can handle those comedowns without downers?
 
Alcoolism is something common in my family. I avoid to drink the best I can, but alchool is my drug because it makes me feel happy, at the same time it frees me from my anxiety and let me be a little bit more confident and less shy.
Stimulants are also my drug (even coffee): makes me feel good, less sad, more confident, less anxious, helps me to focus and work, the problem is the downer. That is why I want to stay far from cocaine.
 
And by saying it is addiction you are talking about a complex subject that spans various fields and involves a complex relationship with the person experiencing addiction.

So its a lot more than you make it out to be
I think addiction is pretty cut and dry. Someone that unnecessarily takes drugs despite being harmed by doing so.
 
I think addiction is pretty cut and dry. Someone that unnecessarily takes drugs despite being harmed by doing so.
Why does someone unnecessarily take drugs? And is it actually something unnecessary? It may be necessary to them, which is why they take them. Who defines what is necessary and what isn't? Someone smoking a baggie of weed and someone smoking a baggie of heroin, which one is necessary? Depends who you ask. Okay so who decides ultimately what is unnecesary and what isn't? Who gives them the right to do that anyway?
So you could then ask why would you discriminate against someone for choosing to take drugs in the first place? And now you're back at the place where most people start when judging people who take drugs. And in order to get beyond that you have to dig deeper and understand the relationship between drugs and the person and that inevitably involves their life history and what put them on that trajectory. It involves getting beyond the limitations of culture and societal conditioning towards a more counter-cultural and impartial and open-minded place. You have to challenge the normal way at approaching things. That is what drug harm reduction and recovery is all about, the shit that works anyway.

Now you're not talking about something cut and dry because nobody's life is cut and dry. To say that is to reduce someone down in order to you to feel better about not having to know the intricacies around why they do what they do because, for example, it makes you feel uncomfortable or you have particular prejudices etc. Too many people are uncomfortable around the truth around drug use and abuse. And I don't mean the stigma (although that's a big part of it). They are uncomfortable around looking at the other person as a human with a story because then it throws their warped, inflexible and detrimental world views into a tailspin. All of a sudden much of what you believed is bullshit and most people can't stomach that. Drug use is something built into the human condition and we have sought to use drugs throughout our history. That inevitably involves using them for anything from enlightenment to escapism. Whether it's to open the mind or close it. It's still part of who we are.

Isn't that the reason why we have problems around facing the drug issues we have in society? Because it's simply cut and dry, as you say?

Cut and dry to me implies putting a stamp on everybody and bundling them together. Forget the details. Just bag and tag. You take drugs and you're addicted to them and it's not good for you and that's all you need to know.
No room for adding the humanity to the conversation. It's like saying child abuse is just a hand raised and then the end result. Forget the bits in between, particularly the bits that may have actually catapulted you down the road to addiction, because it's cut and dry. Those parts don't matter, right?

Maybe it doesn't matter because it's actually something difficult to process and be open about and again, because of conditioning culturally and socially to view this topic as something taboo and therefore impure, immoral and indicative of some kind of fatal flaw. It's a projection of the dogma of society and culture being transmitted through the person. And that's okay, we are all vessels of culture and the social constructs and artifacts of our worlds. But we have to challenge those in order to assess whether they are conducive with reality and also with how we want to see them if we weren't so blind to the influences of such forces.

People need to learn to tend to each other and that involves being able to come into the other persons frame of reference. Better still, their shoes. Enough denying the complexity of what exists underneath and start learning to be with another person to uncover the parts that mean the most to them. And the most important parts are not the addiction. That's illogical. Their life story sent them down a path TOWARDS addiction. The meaning is in that story, whether they are currently capable of acknowledging that or not.
 
Why does someone unnecessarily take drugs? And is it actually something unnecessary? It may be necessary to them, which is why they take them. Who defines what is necessary and what isn't? Someone smoking a baggie of weed and someone smoking a baggie of heroin, which one is necessary? Depends who you ask. Okay so who decides ultimately what is unnecesary and what isn't? Who gives them the right to do that anyway?
So you could then ask why would you discriminate against someone for choosing to take drugs in the first place? And now you're back at the place where most people start when judging people who take drugs. And in order to get beyond that you have to dig deeper and understand the relationship between drugs and the person and that inevitably involves their life history and what put them on that trajectory. It involves getting beyond the limitations of culture and societal conditioning towards a more counter-cultural and impartial and open-minded place. You have to challenge the normal way at approaching things. That is what drug harm reduction and recovery is all about, the shit that works anyway.

Now you're not talking about something cut and dry because nobody's life is cut and dry. To say that is to reduce someone down in order to you to feel better about not having to know the intricacies around why they do what they do because, for example, it makes you feel uncomfortable or you have particular prejudices etc. Too many people are uncomfortable around the truth around drug use and abuse. And I don't mean the stigma (although that's a big part of it). They are uncomfortable around looking at the other person as a human with a story because then it throws their warped, inflexible and detrimental world views into a tailspin. All of a sudden much of what you believed is bullshit and most people can't stomach that. Drug use is something built into the human condition and we have sought to use drugs throughout our history. That inevitably involves using them for anything from enlightenment to escapism. Whether it's to open the mind or close it. It's still part of who we are.

Isn't that the reason why we have problems around facing the drug issues we have in society? Because it's simply cut and dry, as you say?

Cut and dry to me implies putting a stamp on everybody and bundling them together. Forget the details. Just bag and tag. You take drugs and you're addicted to them and it's not good for you and that's all you need to know.
No room for adding the humanity to the conversation. It's like saying child abuse is just a hand raised and then the end result. Forget the bits in between, particularly the bits that may have actually catapulted you down the road to addiction, because it's cut and dry. Those parts don't matter, right?

Maybe it doesn't matter because it's actually something difficult to process and be open about and again, because of conditioning culturally and socially to view this topic as something taboo and therefore impure, immoral and indicative of some kind of fatal flaw. It's a projection of the dogma of society and culture being transmitted through the person. And that's okay, we are all vessels of culture and the social constructs and artifacts of our worlds. But we have to challenge those in order to assess whether they are conducive with reality and also with how we want to see them if we weren't so blind to the influences of such forces.

People need to learn to tend to each other and that involves being able to come into the other persons frame of reference. Better still, their shoes. Enough denying the complexity of what exists underneath and start learning to be with another person to uncover the parts that mean the most to them. And the most important parts are not the addiction. That's illogical. Their life story sent them down a path TOWARDS addiction. The meaning is in that story, whether they are currently capable of acknowledging that or not.
Straight out of the DSM-5: a substance use disorder (SUD) involves patterns of symptoms caused by using a substance that an individual continues taking despite its negative effects.

Pretty much what I said. I think anyone can find a reason to destroy themselves with drugs. Some people having a fucked up life and then becoming a meth user doesn't mean they aren't an addict because they have sad feelings they "have" to numb.

I certainly sympathize with ppl dealt a shit life than turn to drugs...it doesn't mean the aren't addicts though.
 
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My Docs are Heroin and more recently, Oxys. Why? Calming - euphoric- warming effects and because, as the Poet says, "
"when the smack begins to flow
I really don't care anymore
About all the Jim-Jim's in this town
And all the politicians makin' crazy sounds
And everybody puttin' everybody else down
And all the dead bodies piled up in mounds''''

I guess it has a lot to do with the kind of person you are- the thing you are looking for (knowingly or unknowingly ) in a substance - maybe also the way an individual´s brain is wired etc. For instance I can and do use cocaine and booze occasionally but there´s no way on earth I could get addicted to either of these, I can enjoy them once in a while but they are really not my thing. Other people try them once and they are hooked forever. It´s pretty interesting , why A and B can try a drug x, A says "well, nice" while B gets addicted ....
Heroin.....be the death of meeee....heroin...it's my wife and ITS MY LIFE!
 
Straight out of the DSM-5 "a substance use disorder (SUD) involves patterns of symptoms caused by using a substance that an individual continues taking despite its negative effects"

Pretty much what I said.
I don't align myself with diagnoses. A diagnosis is complimentary to a particular situation, not the be-all-end-all. Also, conventional psychiatry has failed miserably to treat addiction. It does not factor in holistic approaches to treating addiction because it can only see a patient through the lens of pathology and through an intrinsically flawed and lacking model which is entirely biological. And why it's biological has it's implications in what grounds modern psychiatry in general, as well as medicine, and that's co-opting by big pharma and the indoctrination of doctors into a system that teaches them to push pills and pathologize without finding treatments that work or even are compatible with the full scope of the symptoms because the very system they are indoctrinated into does not seek to recognize them.

This is slowly changing with treatments that recognize the necessity for more holistic approaches but as a whole, psychiatry fails when it comes to addiction. The current vocabulary in psychiatry does not recognize what exists beyond it's dogmatic and rigid basis for understanding symptoms.

Also, when you subscribe to this way of understanding behaviour you are reduced down, as I mentioned in my post, to nothing but pathology, something mechanical and devoid of complexity and an underlying story. This explains why so many who become subjects to psychiatry feel more hopeless and unwell than before and why they also tend to be dependent forever more on meds that don't treat the underlying issues but simply mask the symptoms. This is a big failure and so repeating the dogma does not except make those wounds bigger for those who are already wounded.
 
Straight out of the DSM-5: a substance use disorder (SUD) involves patterns of symptoms caused by using a substance that an individual continues taking despite its negative effects.

Pretty much what I said. I think anyone can find a reason to destroy themselves with drugs. Some people having a fucked up life and then becoming a meth user doesn't mean they aren't an addict because they have sad feelings they "have" to numb.

I certainly sympathize with ppl dealt a shit life than turn to drugs...it doesn't mean the aren't addicts though.
Could pain be a factor oh wise one ???
 
Could pain be a factor oh wise one ???
In what triggering one to become an addict? Of course. If you medicate past the point of tolerating the pain and shoot for also trying to numb the emotional response to the pain you're abusing the pain drug.

If you use drugs that don't actually reduce physical pain to numb the emotions and anger that come with physical pain...that's drug abuse.

Im Guilty as charged of all of the above and accept that reality and fault that I have been striving to change for a long time. I'll change my actions but I'll never change who I am, a drug addict that desires to escape from unpleasant emotional feelings using drugs instead of experiencing the emotions without drugs.
 
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I am on a taper for years now. I would have stopped way a long long long time ago if it wasn't for
my physical pain that broke me down and is killing me a little bit more each day too.
 
Anyone pure stimulant users can explain how you can handle those comedowns without downers?

It depends on the upper but nowadays I’m leaning towards having at least ghb at hand when doing uppers. From 2012 up until 2017 I was on the pyrrolidino ketones (a-pvp and such) without any gaba assistance and I wouldn’t touch especially these without a benzo onboard now, too much of a fuck up vaping these. With stuff like methylphenidate id take it without a benzo at hand, Ritalin is way more forgiving.
 
I'm smoking a joint and drinking a cup of coffee and started feeling pretty introspective. For me, I suppose opiates/opioids won me over because my sober state has always been restless or anxious. It has been so bothersome that I've struggled with insomnia. My first experience with opiates was when I was prescribed tussionex (hydrocodone cough syrup). I was 16 at the time, but in that moment I felt at ease for once. It was as if all the puzzle pieces were finally in place and I didn't have to worry for the sake of worrying anymore. I didn't develop a "problem" with painkillers til about 2 years after my 1st experience. I would think someone addicted to stimulants like coke or meth prefer uppers due to a lack of energy or motivation. With things like say, alcohol or Xanax, maybe they prefer those because they just wanna wind down then call it a day and sleep. I'm curious, what made you choose your drug of choice?

I can relate to your statement about having a disposition of restlessness/anxiousness being a precursor to opiate addiction. I've always had a baseline feeling of nervousness or anxiety on a daily basis and heroin/fentanyl fixes that for a short period of time where I can feel like what I think a normal human being feels like normally. I started with coke during my party days, ended up with a deviated septum so don't do that anymore. Then started using clear/meth so I can feel motivated to get out of bed in the morning. As all addicts know it can be a vicious cycle. I have been able to find an equilibrium for longevity but that might just be a way to burn the candle on both ends a little slower as opposed to living a happy fulfilled life.
 
It depends on the upper but nowadays I’m leaning towards having at least ghb at hand when doing uppers. From 2012 up until 2017 I was on the pyrrolidino ketones (a-pvp and such) without any gaba assistance and I wouldn’t touch especially these without a benzo onboard now, too much of a fuck up vaping these. With stuff like methylphenidate id take it without a benzo at hand, Ritalin is way more forgiving.
I was prescribed Concerta (time-released methylphenidate) while in highschool and until I dropped out of college. I quit willingly without any withdrawals. I never really cared for stimulants other than caffeine anyhow. Things like Concerta and Adderall were nothing more than a useful focus and study tool. I like to eat and sleep, so anything stronger than caffeine pills aren't my cup of tea. I just wish it was that easy to quit painkillers. Even if you desperately want to get clean, opiates/opioids won't let you quit without a fight against your own body. It'll definitely give you a run for your money. The relapse rate for opiates/opioids is 91% and 4 out of every 5 addicts never get sober (according to what I've read). The longer you've been addicted, the more likely you'll relapse and stay off the wagon. I've been addicted since my late teens and I'm almost in my mid-30's. The future looks quite grim as of now. Based on the current state of my life, I might never become a mother (the one and only reason why I'd be willing to quit).
 
I can relate to your statement about having a disposition of restlessness/anxiousness being a precursor to opiate addiction. I've always had a baseline feeling of nervousness or anxiety on a daily basis and heroin/fentanyl fixes that for a short period of time where I can feel like what I think a normal human being feels like normally. I started with coke during my party days, ended up with a deviated septum so don't do that anymore. Then started using clear/meth so I can feel motivated to get out of bed in the morning. As all addicts know it can be a vicious cycle. I have been able to find an equilibrium for longevity but that might just be a way to burn the candle on both ends a little slower as opposed to living a happy fulfilled life.
You hit the nail on the head. When I take a low, "doctor-recommended" dose, opiates make me feel what I assume sober/"normal" folks must feel like, which adds to why I'm dreading the day that I will make my first willing attempt to quit. What comes next when the withdrawals are over for the most part? Trying to readjust back to my sober, naturally restless state of being and having to power through a lifetime of cravings (assuming our brains never fully recover)? Because let's not kid ourselves ; there's no getting all that lost dopamine back and if our bodies supposedly never relearn how to produce it like we did pre-addiction (due to an overload of dopamine from years of daily, instant chemical gratification), then sobriety seems like a miserable existence. The only reason why I want to attempt to quit is because I'm over 30, childless and desperately want to have a baby while I'm still young enough to not have a "high-risk" pregnancy. If I didn't have such a raging case of baby fever, the thought of quitting wouldn't have even crossed my mind. Why quit the one and only thing that brings me peace when my sober state has and always will be a mess?

On a side note: I also had a deviated septum but according to the surgeon who performed my septoplasty, mine was probably due to falling on my face at some point during my childhood. I've always been ridiculously clumsy. He explained that when you're a toddler or young child, your bone marrow is still soft enough that kids often fall on their faces and get back up without having realized that they've broken their nose (until they're much older and start having undiagnosable, mystery nasal issues). That was the case with me. I couldn't figure out why I kept having "sinus infections" and that's when a doctor discovered my deviated septum ; meaning it wasn't sinus infections at all. My breathing was labored through 1 nostril and if I didn't get the surgery, the other side would've collapsed as well and I would've been a mouth-breather. The shittiest part of that ordeal was that I was only prescribed 1 bottle of 20 5mg hydrocodone (post-op, no refills) and I have a 300mg tolerance for oral morphine, so that didn't even come close to touching where I needed to be in terms of pain relief. Took less than a day to eat the whole damn bottle.
 
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