What do you go next? Really?

[stellablue]

I have been to therapy. I have tried to make amends with all that I can. I can not get to my oldest daughter. She is smart, she knows what not to do, but pushes me away. There was a huge truth when her father died that I never told her. I thought he was okay, and as he was in my arms he died. I called to late. These wounds don't seem to heal and time is not helping. I have alienated a lot of people because I feel I don't deserve the closeness. I am so fucking alone, but feel thats how it should be. I know there is forgiveness, but not for me. I was to weak in his final moments, and to this I will never forgive myself for that. I know I have lost my oldest Morgan, because she is blinded with pain. The only reason I am truly here is my youngest two daughters. Sometimes the cross is to fucking heavy to bear........God damn I want to put it down. You know?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I know there is forgiveness, but not for me.

Is anyone else beyond redemption? Anybody at all? If it is only yourself that is completely beyond redemption in your eyes then some of the problem is that you are holding yourself as a unique category and that is what needs work in therapy imo. If the problem is that other people aren't forgiving you about something there is nothing you can do convince them. Their forgiveness or non-forgiveness is their issue. Forgiveness based on pleas or gambits won't mean anything in the long run in my opinion. In fact pushing for forgiveness can result in people choosing to be less acknowledging of forgiveness or even being less willing to forgive.

As far as your daughter, if she is almost an adult your only option is to give her space & time and allow her to come around or not. Other people are out of our control.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Stella, I'm not sure what else you would do. However posting here is a step in the right direction.

I am sure one day your daughter will come around, people (me especially) have a way of holding grudges like magnets attract each other. But, over time, I am sure she will remember that you were and still are, a good mother, and that is what counts.

I also know that you are a good person at heart, and I am so sorry for everything you've gone through. It seems that good people go through the real tragedies in life.

If you tried therapy and were unsatisfied with how it turned out, you can try a different therapist who would use different styles/techniques to help you out. There's nothing wrong with trying again. I understand that scraping up enough courage to seek out professional help can easily be lost when you have a negative experience in therapy. I hope you can find that courage again though.

Finally, please PM me any time, I am always here to chat. Take care Stella and have a good day!

 

[stellablue]

Is anyone else beyond redemption? Anybody at all? If it is only yourself that is completely beyond redemption in your eyes then some of the problem is that you are holding yourself as a unique category and that is what needs work in therapy imo. If the problem is that other people aren't forgiving you about something there is nothing you can do convince them. Their forgiveness or non-forgiveness is their issue. Forgiveness based on pleas or gambits won't mean anything in the long run in my opinion. In fact pushing for forgiveness can result in people choosing to be less acknowledging of forgiveness or even being less willing to forgive.

As far as your daughter, if she is almost an adult your only option is to give her space & time and allow her to come around or not. Other people are out of our control.

^ That is so true. I wished I could forgive myself, sure would help others to forgive , huh?

My biggest fear is being alive but dead inside. So no matter what life throws my way, I will try my best, because thats me.

Stella, I'm not sure what else you would do. However posting here is a step in the right direction.

I am sure one day your daughter will come around, people (me especially) have a way of holding grudges like magnets attract each other. But, over time, I am sure she will remember that you were and still are, a good mother, and that is what counts.

I also know that you are a good person at heart, and I am so sorry for everything you've gone through. It seems that good people go through the real tragedies in life.

If you tried therapy and were unsatisfied with how it turned out, you can try a different therapist who would use different styles/techniques to help you out. There's nothing wrong with trying again. I understand that scraping up enough courage to seek out professional help can easily be lost when you have a negative experience in therapy. I hope you can find that courage again though.

Finally, please PM me any time, I am always here to chat. Take care Stella and have a good day!

^ Thanks CH. I will take you up on the PM tomorrow. It has just really been a bad day.


Thanks for your advice you two. I really needed some help with how to approach things. Your both right about my oldest. She just needs more time.

 

[ocean]

You can only move forward.
Learning from past mistakes is important but it is also important not to live in the past.
There is no changing what has happened, there is no going back......accepting this yourself, and helping your daughter to understand that can only benefit the both of you.
I understand you are dealing with a heavy situation, so maybe a professional would help your daughter as well........
That way she has someone who is not personally involved help her to work through things.
I hope that you and your girls can step out of the shadow of your pain and begin to live your lives in positive, hopeful, light.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

^ Thanks CH. I will take you up on the PM tomorrow. It has just really been a bad day.

Thanks for your advice you two. I really needed some help with how to approach things. Your both right about my oldest. She just needs more time.

No problem Stella! I had a bad day too. You're not alone in that respect.

I'm also an oldest-child, they always need more time.

 

[Pomplemous]

Stella I have watched you being one of the most loving, forgiving, warm hearted and positive for others, and supportive person on here... how can someone with so much love and who exudes (good word!) wamth and support for evey single person n here not sparea little for herself? too much the giver perhaps? or loving others means you dont have to tackle the issue of how you do or dont love yourself?

what you tell someone else to do? If you read your post and it wasnt from you, what would you say to them?


My thoughts are if your girl is angry with you, then give her the respect and opportunity to let he express to you how she feels, if she blames you, let her tell you - let he scream and shout and tell you she hates you if that's what it is - at least that's what I would do if it were me because by her expressing all that turmoil - even if it is in rage, it tells you how she feels, it lets all that anger and frustration come out of her - EVEN IF IT@S ALL WRONG -of course she's goin to misunderstand facts, not know the truth, give unfair or inaccurate blame because she only knows her version of it - but she should be allowed to let it out at you because you are her mother and you're gonna get it as mothers always do. But once it's out then you know how she feels and the anger has had a chance to get out of her system and it takes the sting out of it for her so you can eventually start building on it - slowly you can let her know the real truth and how you feel and how you may blame yourself for whatever you blame yourself for and maybe from there a calmer communication can come of this - of course it's gonna hurt, but as her mother, you have to face all of her frustrations as a calm and loving and supportive mother will - dont take it all to heart, just take it all as this is the concept of her anger - dont use it to hate yourself more, this is a means to an end and it's not about adding to your guilt, it's about communication. - maybe even crying te anger out of her - at you, or she'll continue to stay away to not have to face it inside of herself. so by reaching out this way helps her and you.

I say this because I held something against my mother for a while, right or wrong and we didnt get on for a while -it wasnt anyting bad it was ust something and it got between us and we didnt get on for a short time and she let me talk and I raged at her and I cried and I called her names and I blamed her and she said nothing as I did this show of rage - she listened even though we both know I was talking shite - just reacting in the worst ways I could at her and she listenend and listened and took all of it every last insult and blame - she never corrected me, she never tried to tel me anything was not as I was saying it, she listnened and when I ran out of steam she held me very very tight and we cried together and held eachother very tight and rocked for a while and she washed my face and made me a cup of tea and we laughed at how snotty and red our faces were and onc we were calm, she then started to tell me truths and how things are - ever understanding and sensitive to the emotional scene we'd just been through together - she gently got her side across and I listened and asked questions and she was honest and truthful and we never looked back. My mother is the best mother in the world. we're mother and daughter, not best friends. ( I just text my mummy some love cos i am telling you more about ow I feel about he than I tell he heself so I just did just now. she deserves to know what a great mum she is)

 

[Pomplemous]

So.. waffle waffle waffle. what I am saying is - put your guilt down because you're right, it is a cross to bear, but ask yourself - why exactly are you carrying it? where were you planning to carry it to?

Haha - for me - self-delusion is the key to happiness - I'll tell you what I do - I carry guilt around with me - if I choose to look back in my lifetime, I could crush myself with things I feel guiltyabout, things I wish I had or hadnt done, ways I hurt people, ways I behaved myself and I could lie down and die right now if I could over that - but I use visualisation.

for those snippets of guilt that I feel when i see a flashback of my life - y'know the ones where they catch you unawares and make you want to cry - I pretend it's a buttefly in my hand - and I look at it and I acknowledge it and I know I have learnt fom it, it happened and I know how not to let it happen again and make sure I dont, so for now, that is an unnecessary thought, an unnecessary guilt because I am sorry it happened, but I have learnt fom it, so quite actually and literally, I say to myself - I forgive you for this- brain , I allow you to drop this thought or memoy from your brain - you dont need to carry this thought with you any more - and I let the imaginary butterfly go from my hand and I imagein it flutters off to obscurity. One guilt down - 10000000 to go. hahah

For those bigge guilts - wher I have truly let people down - well, I havent done that for so long because I have learnt that I dont want to let people down so only to promise things I can deliver, have learnt to say no and so have only the guilt of the past let downs to cope with - but I console myself with who I have become now, and how proud of myself i am as a person now - how I dont let people down now - but I go and apologise where I can and where i cant - I write them a letter that I never intend to snd - get it all out.

maybe you should write yourself a letter as you are now to that stella back then - what would you tell her now? what would you tell he? look back at that lady with the ying man in he arms and how she plans o cope fom there - what support would you offe her?

 

[stellablue]

Stella I have watched you being one of the most loving, forgiving, warm hearted and positive for others, and supportive person on here... how can someone with so much love and who exudes (good word!) wamth and support for evey single person n here not sparea little for herself? too much the giver perhaps? or loving others means you dont have to tackle the issue of how you do or dont love yourself?

what you tell someone else to do? If you read your post and it wasnt from you, what would you say to them?


My thoughts are if your girl is angry with you, then give her the respect and opportunity to let he express to you how she feels, if she blames you, let her tell you - let he scream and shout and tell you she hates you if that's what it is - at least that's what I would do if it were me because by her expressing all that turmoil - even if it is in rage, it tells you how she feels, it lets all that anger and frustration come out of her - EVEN IF IT@S ALL WRONG -of course she's goin to misunderstand facts, not know the truth, give unfair or inaccurate blame because she only knows her version of it - but she should be allowed to let it out at you because you are her mother and you're gonna get it as mothers always do. But once it's out then you know how she feels and the anger has had a chance to get out of her system and it takes the sting out of it for her so you can eventually start building on it - slowly you can let her know the real truth and how you feel and how you may blame yourself for whatever you blame yourself for and maybe from there a calmer communication can come of this - of course it's gonna hurt, but as her mother, you have to face all of her frustrations as a calm and loving and supportive mother will - dont take it all to heart, just take it all as this is the concept of her anger - dont use it to hate yourself more, this is a means to an end and it's not about adding to your guilt, it's about communication. - maybe even crying te anger out of her - at you, or she'll continue to stay away to not have to face it inside of herself. so by reaching out this way helps her and you.

I say this because I held something against my mother for a while, right or wrong and we didnt get on for a while -it wasnt anyting bad it was ust something and it got between us and we didnt get on for a short time and she let me talk and I raged at her and I cried and I called her names and I blamed her and she said nothing as I did this show of rage - she listened even though we both know I was talking shite - just reacting in the worst ways I could at her and she listenend and listened and took all of it every last insult and blame - she never corrected me, she never tried to tel me anything was not as I was saying it, she listnened and when I ran out of steam she held me very very tight and we cried together and held eachother very tight and rocked for a while and she washed my face and made me a cup of tea and we laughed at how snotty and red our faces were and onc we were calm, she then started to tell me truths and how things are - ever understanding and sensitive to the emotional scene we'd just been through together - she gently got her side across and I listened and asked questions and she was honest and truthful and we never looked back. My mother is the best mother in the world. we're mother and daughter, not best friends. ( I just text my mummy some love cos i am telling you more about ow I feel about he than I tell he heself so I just did just now. she deserves to know what a great mum she is)

^ I did exactly what you said. i listened. She screamed, cried, and was so hurt and angry. No matter what (and it was hard) I was silent. She said she hated me, and hated the world because it is full of lies. She hated me most for not protecting her from the pain. As I thought she was going to knock me out, she grabbed a hold of me sobbing. She told me she was tired, and wanted to trust me. I told her she can, but that we have to deal with life as it comes and what cards we are dealt. It is my job to support her, and also to give her space, even though I would never be far away. Strong people make as many mistakes as weak people, difference is that strong people admit their mistakes, laugh at them, learn from them. That is how they become strong. Along with the help of the ones that truly love them. I truly love her, she is all I have left from my deceased husband and there is NOTHING I wouldn't do for her or my other two daughters. I told her what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, and then it is good to pass the help to others in need, so that we can feel victory even if we have lost so much of our fight. By helping others we are evening the score and giving the memory of the ones we love and loss a better outcome, even if they are still gone. They know. No matter what I would be her ally. It was one of our best talks. Thanks for everyones help.

 

[izzy66]

^that's great, so glad she was able to let some things out.
y'know stella i carried guilt n pain n regret n grief from the past for so long. i fell so far into a pit of black depression i didn't believe there was a way out or that i even deserved any relief. i did the therapy thing, the damn psych meds, anything i could find trying to get relief. nothing helped much.
i didn't have any epiphany or aha moment. i just could not carry all the sadness one more day and looking outside of myself for an answer only taught me that there was no answer "out there"; any change had to come from inside.
i cannot change past events. i cannot change abusive people. i spent so much time dwelling on and re-living the past that i was missing what was happening -now- and that had to change.
i lost my husband too. he was killed in a work accident and i had a very lucid bizarre dream the night before. i begged him not to go to work. he was even set to begin a diff job the next day but he laughed about my weird dream and went to work. at 8:30 a.m he was gone.
for many years i wasn't really living, just existing, putting one foot in front of the other, stuffing what i couldn't stand to think about. i lost so many years.
you've been blessed w/ 3 children. the kids deserve to have you there for them completely and you deserve to have joy in your life. don't allow "what if" to take another minute from you or the kids. yesterday is gone and nothing can change what has happened but you can change your point of view.
i wish you and your children all the best, stella.
-izzy

 

[Colmes]

I have been to therapy. I have tried to make amends with all that I can. I can not get to my oldest daughter. She is smart, she knows what not to do, but pushes me away. There was a huge truth when her father died that I never told her. I thought he was okay, and as he was in my arms he died. I called to late. These wounds don't seem to heal and time is not helping. I have alienated a lot of people because I feel I don't deserve the closeness. I am so fucking alone, but feel thats how it should be. I know there is forgiveness, but not for me. I was to weak in his final moments, and to this I will never forgive myself for that. I know I have lost my oldest Morgan, because she is blinded with pain. The only reason I am truly here is my youngest two daughters. Sometimes the cross is to fucking heavy to bear........God damn I want to put it down. You know?

A very sad and complicated situation, combined with the unpredictable attitude of your eldest daughter (age? is she in her early teens?).

If so; I truly believe that she will realize one day.. that you cannot simply displace the blame and anger onto someone else, in this case; her mother. Time may not help you directly in healing, but as she matures it will help her, and as a result, it will help your relationship with her; so time does heal in some scenarios...She may realize that ultimately due to a decision he made (i'm assuming it was due to his choices, that really, as much as she would like to yell at him for taking away her having a father to grow up with, yelling at you doesnt help the cause. (I really actually rather not guess how your husband based or how he died, regardless it was not your fault). Then she can forgive him for that, and all that anger she probably feels toward a father who is not there for her (even though it is impossible that he could be) will be transferred into understanding and compassion. I believe you will be the recipient of those feelings. You will receive the love she feels for you and him TOGETHER at some point, I'm really convinced of that. The question is, when .

You are not weak, really take some time to think back to how you processed things as a teenage girl, compared to how you are now; perhaps that could shed some light.

*note - I know you daughter is smart. Heck, she could be a straight A student that will attend Brown. While her IQ is high, her EQ (emotional quotient) is completely unrelated to intelligence. Goodluck !

 

[Lysis]

Everyone deserves a second chance, but kids don't see these things until they get older. I hope your eldest comes around, Stella. It might just be that she needs a long time to realize that you're not a monster and mistakes were made (although, I have read your story and I don't think you did anything wrong). I think the best you can do is make sure she knows you love her and stay in her life. One of these days, I think she will understand that you have to forgive family and give them a second chance.

You deserve to have the best, but life just seems to throw shit at us. I went through 3 years of it, and I am now going through it again after having a "happy" break for about 6 months. Are you a sensitive person? I think that truly sensitive people hurt longer and harder and it takes a lot more to get them out of the depression...maybe even years.

 

[Pomplemous]

Stella you did a really brave and mature thing inthat then - do you feel closer together now? of course there will be further questions and flare ups etc - but sounds like you grew a bond that you can work on.

I've seen many mother sna daughters falling out - especially around this town and the mother says - I cant control he, i cant get onwith her - she doesnt listen -and my first thoughts are - well have you listened to her? why would someone listen to someone they dont feel they know or can trust?

I'm really chuffed for you mate - I truly hope this is a path to you both laying a few crosses down by the side of the road and walking free together,

 

[stellablue]

Everyone deserves a second chance, but kids don't see these things until they get older. I hope your eldest comes around, Stella. It might just be that she needs a long time to realize that you're not a monster and mistakes were made (although, I have read your story and I don't think you did anything wrong). I think the best you can do is make sure she knows you love her and stay in her life. One of these days, I think she will understand that you have to forgive family and give them a second chance.

You deserve to have the best, but life just seems to throw shit at us. I went through 3 years of it, and I am now going through it again after having a "happy" break for about 6 months. Are you a sensitive person? I think that truly sensitive people hurt longer and harder and it takes a lot more to get them out of the depression...maybe even years.

^Yes, I am a very sensitive prson. I tend to take on more then I am supposed to be held accounted for because of the guilt I carry. I am working on this though.

Stella you did a really brave and mature thing inthat then - do you feel closer together now? of course there will be further questions and flare ups etc - but sounds like you grew a bond that you can work on.

I've seen many mother sna daughters falling out - especially around this town and the mother says - I cant control he, i cant get onwith her - she doesnt listen -and my first thoughts are - well have you listened to her? why would someone listen to someone they dont feel they know or can trust?

I'm really chuffed for you mate - I truly hope this is a path to you both laying a few crosses down by the side of the road and walking free together,

I feel like we are getting closer. There are days that I feel we are set back from our healing process because it is something I want so badly that I am not as patient as I should be at times tbh. I do know thats unfair to my daughter, but I am working on it. I have had to learn how to shut up, and just listen. It really sounds easier then that is, but is working a hell of a lot better then listening to myself as her and I were getting more and more distant. Now we are doing so much better. She is actually starting to trust me again. I am actually starting to trust myself more as well. It is hard when you want something so badly, but never realize all you need to do is shut up and see why things are the way they are. Then start your healing process. So that is what I intend to do.

 

[stellablue]

I often refer back to this thread so many times. Especially when my daughter and I start to grow distant. She is six months pregnant now and her due date is December 20th. I am trying to be as supportive as I can. She can just really cut me like a knife with words. I was bitten by a dog on March the 3rd, and it has really been a nightmare. I moved out of where my daughters and I lived and back into my moms with my girls and I. I am right at the end of a huge law suit with my previous land lady because I was biten by her dog after I walked past it on my property I was renting from her. Anyway, there is another thread about this. My point is I am living with my mother, and waiting to get the funds I need from being out of work through this ending law suit and I am not getting along with my mother. I do sometimes, but we can really clash. I know I need to move, by my mom could really use my help. Please my oldest is 6 months pregnant, and I am a single mother, so I could really use her help.
Things are really making me crazy, and I love my family very much. We all just have this trouble with the name blame game. I don't know if I am the only one with family like this. It's like constant hell and confusion but when we get a long we really get along and it is all roses and sunshine. Maybe we are all bi-polar, lol?

 

[Pagey]

It's exactly the same with my family, don't worry - though it's not because it's common that it makes it easier of course. I hope your situation will calm down a bit and things will resolve themselves on their own good luck

 

[herbavore]

The perfect family only exists on TV and in the movies and while none of us believe those portrayals we all seem to think we are the only ones not living up to them. My favorite birthday card I ever found for my sons (yeah, they both got one at some point) had on the front of the card: "They say a strong, loving family is the foundation for a happy life" and then inside it said, "sucks for us, huh?"

Truth is communication is what is all about but I can tell that you do that with your daughters. It is perfectly natural for daughters to spar with mothers and sons with fathers. It's how we separate ourselves from our parents. My mother is my hero in life but there was a time when all I could do was to criticize her. We can laugh about it now but it was awful then. Also, it is always good to check in and remind ourselves that the same feelings of irritation that we get around our parents our kids are going to feel with us--nothing even that personal in it.

The amount of guilt you felt in the beginning of this thread is very painful. How is that evolving for you over time? Is it lessening? I hope so. You are a beautiful person a good mother and soon to be a fantastic grandmother.

 

[DrinksWithEvil]

Without Forgiveness, We are savages

 

[stellablue]

^thats the honest to God's truth tbh DrinksWithEvil!

Thanks Pagey. You are a true sweet heart.

Herbavore, thank you for posting that. It makes a lot of sense and in a way, it's the small moments and the awkward ones that we think about. The good ones are good as well, but the ones where we are just being the family we are is what makes our family so OUR family. We know what we all need and what helps us have the support we need. As for the beginning of this thread I am doing a lot better. It is just that lately I have had so many new things starting like being a grandmother. Wow, I never saw that coming to be honest, this soon. In a way, I am just counting blessings instead of saying, "no, wait....not yet!" I just think life is so short that to not accept the things that change, even if it is me gettting older lol, then we are losing out on the new things life throws us. In this case anyways. Much love to you Herbavore for your kind thoughts.

 

[izzy66]

stella, my family was crazy as hell and years ago all i wanted was to get away from them. now they are all gone except for one brother and my son who both worry me beyond all words.
can't go back for a re-do but i wish i'd told the others how much i really did love them before they were gone.

sending positive energy your way...
-izzy