What do you do with a heroin-addicted brother?

[cosmicjoke]

hey peeps!

i have a situation and need advice.

my brother is addicted to heroin. he has been using for almost a year and i only found out recently since i was doing alot of travelling. he OD'd 4 times of which one time i was there and called the ambullance. this addiction has changed him completely in a sense where he is enslaved towards this substance and he sees it as some sort of summoned god that provides an instant vacation through a carefree state of mind where dopamine levels seem to be skyrocketing. im not against drugs. quite the contrary, i smoke ganja twice a week and also induldge in drugs of a more psychedelic nature such as lsd, mushrooms, dmt, mdma, ketamine and some other rc's but i dont feel the urge of taking them often as i dont use these substances to forget my worries but more for expanding my conscuiosness and attaining a godhead state. i had a chat with him recently and he seems to be having a struggle with him self concerning quitting. he says that he's going to quit... stays clean for a few days then boom he's back to becoming the servant. he is becoming anti social, lost his job, sold his things and all he seems to care about is dope. well, im going to this festival next month and i thought it would be a good idea for him to be out and about around people and maybe dosing some mdma. but im not sure weather that could help or make him worse any input?. how do you go around your addict friends and how do you convince them to quit?

 

[wcote]

some of on here are or have been addicts. by the way and you cant convince us of shit pretty much the majority of the time.

Sorry to say it. heroin is a nightmare, trust me and it might sound cheesy, but seriously the only person that can make him stop his himself,

THE WORST THING you can do is piss him off. He will just leave you, recent you, and he will get even worse.

Look after him best you can.

Heroin sucks.

 

[JASS92]

some of on here are or have been addicts. by the way and you cant convince us of shit pretty much the majority of the time.

Sorry to say it. heroin is a nightmare, trust me and it might sound cheesy, but seriously the only person that can make him stop his himself,

THE WORST THING you can do is piss him off. He will just leave you, recent you, and he will get even worse.

Look after him best you can.

Heroin sucks.

Exactly.

 

[†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥]

Exactly.

Did you understand that? I think I got most of it...

Anyway, yea. Heroin addiction is pretty stout. There isn't anything you could say to an addict to make them realize they need to quit. I was able to quit after a year long habit, but it was my decision. It was for me. Also I wish you luck in getting him to a festival. When I was strung out, the only festival you could have gotten me to attend would have been a dope slammers convention.

Just maybe let him know how much it bothers you without pushing any demands on him. Hopefully he will find the strength and desire to quit on his own.

Good luck

 

[cosmicjoke]

some of on here are or have been addicts. by the way and you cant convince us of shit pretty much the majority of the time.

Sorry to say it. heroin is a nightmare, trust me and it might sound cheesy, but seriously the only person that can make him stop his himself,

THE WORST THING you can do is piss him off. He will just leave you, recent you, and he will get even worse.

Look after him best you can.

Heroin sucks.

well the thing is that i can't be there for him all the time due to reasons related to work. im just looking for tips to deal with him. i mean there is nothing to piss off as he is apathetic most of the time to the point where he knows no happiness or sadness, the only happiness being him aquiring the so called rush and the only sadness would be the waiting period to attain the rush again. its a vicious cycle involving a soul surviving junk pump. i am just searching for methods to sort of lure him towards real life happiness which sometimes involves embracing the morning sun while sipping a cup of coffee or
having a relationship. all the things that seem to enduce happy feelings without being intoxicated on dope.

 

[cosmicjoke]

thanks, do you think its ok to make him dose some molly?

 

[†€¢}{И¡¢λ£ €¢§†λ$¥]

OK? I dunno if making him do some would help. I don't think doing any drugs other than something to help him ween off the H would be helpful to the addiction. But again.. it's really his call.


EDIT: You have to realize that H is really all he is thinking about. There isn't a drug on the planet that's gonna make him forget about it.

 

[Carl Landrover]

thanks, do you think its ok to make him dose some molly?

No, only if he wants to take it.

A large part of dope addiction isn't the desire to get high, it's the desire to NOT get sick. The physical and mental effects of withdrawal can be brutal, so it's very hard to get away from a lengthy habit.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

recent

Resent has an S not a C. Recent with a C is like, not that long ago.

Not trying to be a spelling nazi but - I honestly had no idea what you meant for a second.

 

[cosmicjoke]

i know what you mean but i have heard of people who had an intense psychedelic experience that made them quit for good. i dont know if it's legit or not but surely worth a shot. i dont know im just suggesting solutions as i really hate to see him like that.

but thanks any ways.

 

[Tchort]

Staying in his life and trying to be a positive but not an overbearing or 'preachy' influence (as others have said, that will make him bitter or push you away). I found that non-addicted friends and family who tried to stay in touch and involved were really important, especially when I eventually made the decision to try and stop using (since those are the people you feel like you can reach out to first). Keep in mind addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease. If he's made attempts to get clean, you should be supportive and congratulate him on it, even if and when it 'fails'. Not very many heroin addicts who were able to stay clean for years or indefinitely did so after the first attempt at quitting. It's important that he knows you don't think he's 'failing' if early attempts at abstinence don't take. The important thing is the effort being put forth and the goal itself.

With dosing a hallucinogen/empathogen/stimulant; it really varies. Some addicts do it. My attempts to take stimulants (meth, dextro-amp and MDMA) while actively using heroin were awful; in short order I needed a big shot of dope to counteract the anxiety/increased heart rate/increased blood pressure/side effects; any discomfort that resembles a withdrawal symptom is intolerable for some addicts- signs of discomfort that resemble withdrawal symptoms automatically make you crave heroin the way you would during the first signs of actual withdrawal symptoms (that was my case anyway, and that of a couple other addicts I knew). But some people are the opposite.

As far as a trip 'shaking him loose' of addiction, I don't believe in it, I've never seen it work, while there may be some science behind Ibogaine, it isn't well understood what mechanism acts to 'interrupt' the addiction processes in some people who report that it works. In the '50s Allen Ginsberg was convinced that LSD would 'free the junkies'; that did not turn out to be the case.

 

[thugpassion]

To be able to stop using Heroin a person needs to find something they like more than doing it. Things like a girlfriend or job/career or whatever but when you have a real dope habit nothing else maters but dope. If the thing that you look forward to the most is doing Heroin than the normal things people like, like sex, travel and material stuff like clothes and cars will always come after Heroin....pretty much no matter what.

 

[sekio]

This is not Other Drugs material, it belongs in The Dark Side.

 

[cosmicjoke]

Staying in his life and trying to be a positive but not an overbearing or 'preachy' influence (as others have said, that will make him bitter or push you away). I found that non-addicted friends and family who tried to stay in touch and involved were really important, especially when I eventually made the decision to try and stop using (since those are the people you feel like you can reach out to first). Keep in mind addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease. If he's made attempts to get clean, you should be supportive and congratulate him on it, even if and when it 'fails'. Not very many heroin addicts who were able to stay clean for years or indefinitely did so after the first attempt at quitting. It's important that he knows you don't think he's 'failing' if early attempts at abstinence don't take. The important thing is the effort being put forth and the goal itself.

With dosing a hallucinogen/empathogen/stimulant; it really varies. Some addicts do it. My attempts to take stimulants (meth, dextro-amp and MDMA) while actively using heroin were awful; in short order I needed a big shot of dope to counteract the anxiety/increased heart rate/increased blood pressure/side effects; any discomfort that resembles a withdrawal symptom is intolerable for some addicts- signs of discomfort that resemble withdrawal symptoms automatically make you crave heroin the way you would during the first signs of actual withdrawal symptoms (that was my case anyway, and that of a couple other addicts I knew). But some people are the opposite.

As far as a trip 'shaking him loose' of addiction, I don't believe in it, I've never seen it work, while there may be some science behind Ibogaine, it isn't well understood what mechanism acts to 'interrupt' the addiction processes in some people who report that it works. In the '50s Allen Ginsberg was convinced that LSD would 'free the junkies'; that did not turn out to be the case.

thanks for shedding some light on the subject. i guess it would probably be a bad idea to take the psychedelic bus. say he starts using valuim to help him with withdrawals, what are the signs of relapsing, as he may lie saying that the only reason im nodding is due to the fact that im taking other meds. how can i know that he's just manipulating me so that he can just have some other drug to take untill the next fix? i cant tell from his arms as they are already over used.

thanks

 

[swmo]

this may sound harsh, but offer him help in the most sincere way...if he chooses to take your help & help himself, great! but if not, you're going to have to cut him loose for your own sanity. u can't hit bottom for him.

 

[Larson0]

thanks for shedding some light on the subject. i guess it would probably be a bad idea to take the psychedelic bus. say he starts using valuim to help him with withdrawals, what are the signs of relapsing, as he may lie saying that the only reason im nodding is due to the fact that im taking other meds. how can i know that he's just manipulating me so that he can just have some other drug to take untill the next fix? i cant tell from his arms as they are already over used.

thanks

my brother was just like you when i was using. i never hit the needle but i was still hitting it hard. he tried everything. eventually i moved to florida thinking i would do it but i relapsed. it wasn't my time and i let him trick me into thinking it was. we got in a lot of fights cause of that and eventually we didn't talk. it always became every time i saw him he was asking about it if i was still on it and telling me how i needed to get off it. no shit. i knew that but it didn't matter. was not ready and thats the bottom line.

thing is i was so sick of it too. i hated being a slave like that but i loved it too. it didn't matter though i still did it. eventually i got on suboxone and then didn't talk to him at all. he was always thinking that i was on that now, so why aren't i tapering down and getting off? i was tapering but it still took me 14 months and he didn't understand taking .25mg less WAS tapering for me. he just didn't understand it. never went through it and was scared for me so its understandable.

when i was on suboxone we rarely talked. i hated going over to his place. i hated being asked about it. suboxone also made me a zombie and a recluse. i have a girlfriend still who has been with me the whole time, or at least 3 months before i got on suboxone till now. it also made me an alcoholic which totally dropped off when i got off subs but still it wasn't nice.

valium wont matter. you need a good amount, like 600mg to comfortably cold taper a habit, and with that he will develop a benzo addiction physical, mental, or both. having said that, it is needed to detox. he would also need blood pressure meds cause valium and any other sleeping pill or weed or booze wont be enough for sleep.

hate to say it but hes gotta let it run its course. maybe you can educate yourself on harm prevention methods and in turn try to educate him? dont force anything on him, but make a good case for it if you can. those arms aren't gonna heal up when he gets clean. thats a stereotype that is not desirable. everyone i know judges me about my past drug use, i just dont give a fuck about it. ill tell anyone who wants to know about my past because im over it and recovering from it. it was a learning experience and thats it. now im trying to cope with being an adult without drugs for the first time in my life.

i wouldn't do the psyche route. i remember hating them while on painkillers. wanted nothing to do with it. and i loved them previously.

the chances of him coming off H alone, esp IV, is very low. the rate of relapse is high as fuck. he may even love the needle and be fixed on that. nowadays its pretty common to go the suboxone route before getting clean. it isn't great, but it gives stability. its easy to take but it costs a lot of money. going to the doctor helps get in the regime too as opposed to buying off the street. when i got it from friends i used it as my "just in case i cant score" drug. when i went to the doctor i got tested for the amount in my body and other drugs, felt a responsibility to my doc and the nurses, etc. i also had my brother who knew i went to that and my girlfriend. i didn't want to let them down even though it wouldn't matter much to me after a week if i relapsed.

suboxone gave me stability and responsibility. that is important to break the habit of ups and downs you get with drug addiction. it also allows you to taper very low and get minimal withdrawal effects. you still get them but they are mild and drawn out to maybe 2 weeks. they are very mild actually. i've gone through full blown withdrawal before and it was total hell. i had all the valium i needed and it didn't matter, i only slept 45 minutes before my body jerked so hard i was awake and feeling shit. sleeping pills did nothing. the standard for ME personally is valium day and night, weed at night, some booze, and CLONIDINE. clonidine for me was the only thing that helped me relax enough to sleep. your bro may be different but the standard for detox is basically valium and clonidine. people get reactions though. theres also baclofen.

that doesn't matter though. you wont be able to change his mind. he may OD again. i would say educate him about testing his shit before doing a good dose but what junkie is gonna do that? i said it earlier in my post but thinking back i wouldn't do that. i really dont know what to do. i dont think there is anything you can do. addicts want to be alone too so it makes it even harder. sorry, my intent with this post was to help. now rethinking it i cant help at all.

 

[cosmicjoke]

when is the right time to make a realisation that you have to end it? when you loose your job, sell your belongings?, steal from freinds and parents?, go to jail?, accumulate enormous debt?, OD? well all this already happened to him 8( what's next? sucking dick? i just dont get it. any ways thanks for your help i guess.

 

[PhrostByte]

I know that when I was a bottom feeding dope fiend I would be down to roll as long as I had more dope to come down... the problem is I never had enough dope. :D

Anyway, the guy needs help. You have to tell him that you love him but you can't watch him kill himself anymore. Don't enable him.

 

[CBRworm]

Prepare for a rollercoaster ride from hell. Teach him harm reduction tchniques and that when he relapses his tolerance will be lower, so he won't die. Expect him to lose everything and hit rock bottom, and hope that he can eventually recover. I have been going through this for a few years and my 'brother' went from being married with 2 kids, a nice house and good job to being homeless, in and out of jail. Performing sexual favors for other guys to get high and now has almost no contact with anyone. He has been through multiple detox, rehab, locked up, etc and still can't quit. He wants to, but he can't stay away for long. He has stolen from all of us to support his habit. We are running out of support and he keeps getting worse.

 

[Larson0]

hard to say when he'll hit that point. might even run homeless for awhile.

its hard but you really might need to cut him off. he will drag you down emotionally with him.