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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

What damages the brain/intelligence permanently more alcohol or cocaine

Dresden said:
The brain has very high what scientists call, "plasticity," meaning it is very good at "bouncing back" (healing itself) from damage.

As far as ethyl alcohol and cocaine, EtOH is probably worse as it actually kills brain cells, something not even MDMA does. Both cocaine and alcohol are bad when used excessively, but long term, moderate usage causes no real harm. Be aware that cocaine is one of the most addictive--if not the most addictive--recreational drug out there, and the more you take/use, the worse the cravings get, and for powdered cocaine, the worse the comedown will eventually be.

But yeah, I have a 102 year old great uncle who drank liquor every evening/afternoon for years and years (well into his 90s I think), and he's still alive. He's nearly deaf, but alive.
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Alcohol apparently does not kill brain cells.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/human-brain/10-brain-myths9.htm

But both frequent alcohol and cocaine use are not good for your body.

I don't think that we know enough about the brain and how drugs work in the brain to say which one is "worse" as it's different for everyone.

I know people who drink daily and have for decades and their memory and cognitive functions are not that bad, and I have met people who did this with cocaine and other drugs; but it's best if you don't do either for very long periods of time.
 
fluxin said:
can it give you permanent anxiety too after a period of use?
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Short answer, no.

Drug use can bring out latent anxiety but it can't create it out of whole cloth. The first time I used marijuana it worsened my anxiety, and was partially responsible for me finally dealing with it properly. But I already had that anxiety and it was going to get worse eventually whether I smoked that joint or not.
 
I wasn't aware that there were any "serious" neurotoxic effects brought on by cocaine, I always thought the main danger systemically, was to your cardiovascular system. I could be wrong.

Ethanol, if I'm correct, is going to actually destroy brain cells. Plasticity or no, a dead brain cell cannot be brought back, so I would call alcohol the worse of the two in the long and short term.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, the combination of the two is especially unhealthy as they produce cocaethylene in vivo, itself being much more dangerous than the sum of its parts. It does lead itself to more intoxication and euphoria, however, which makes this an especially common combination.
 
Alcohol Doesn't kill brain cells It's as simple as that.I'm sorry but it's just not up for discussion.....Long term Alcohol abuse may lead to Wernickes Encephalopathy or Wernicke Korsakoffs syndrome....But alcohol use generally doesn't.

To be honest i'm quite sick of the vilification of Alcohol on this site....People want to believe alcohol seriously damages the brain because it seems to justify their use of drugs usually Ecstasy......Unfortunately/Fortunately Alchol is nowhere near as damaging to the brain as Ecstasy,Mephedrone,Cocaine etc. It is NOT neurotoxic otherwise we would have a serious mental health crisis across the world...A good nunber of people would have severe brain damage....At least a Quarter of the population would have significant impairment.

Even Immersing cultured brain cells in Alcohol is not enough to destroy them.
 
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Cocaine is more of a risk for your heart than your brain. Its hard to directly compare them. My guess is that regular alcohol use isn't as dangerous as regular cocaine use, but it all depends on dosages and frequency of use. Neither are what I'd consider clean or safe drugs. Kratom can have effects similar to both drugs and is far safer to use regularly, has milder withdrawals, and is a lot easier to source than coke. Just a thought.
 
Doldrugs the defenition of Neurotoxicity in thise studys is quite different than that used when dealing with truly Neurotoxic substances.....There is no evidence in either study of dead neurons therefore it doesn't even necessarily qualify as brain damage rather Brain change as it appears to be reversible in almost all cases....Again your knowingly misrepresenting alcohol trying to put it in a bad light....Severe atrophy caused by Vitamin B12 deficiency is only seen after EXTREME abuse if you read the study carefully you'll see cases in which people have binged daily for 27 Years before developing serious neurological Impairment

By thay defenition...I.E. The potential to Change (And arguably damage) the brain atall then life Itslef is Neurotoxic....Again Alcohol is not considered Neurotoxic in general because of it's lack of ability to kill brain cells...The use of the term 'Neurotoxic' here is questionable.
 
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Ok well this is a question of defenition yes you could claim that Alcohol has a limited potential to cause some damage but going on that defenition almost everything does....Stress...Depression...Anxiety...Even Benzos. that if you look around this site people vehemently defend and deny is in the slightest bit Neurotoxic but...If used in the wrong way (Especially when withdrawing) there is this potential there for harm.....But you claimed that Alcohol killed brain cells...This is untrue...

There is a difference between Change and Damage which is why I question the use of the term Neurotoxic...If I drink to excess (And I mean to Excess) Then my brain will begin to shrink...Though through abstinence this will resolve and my brain will return to it'sls nromal size....What happening here ? The destruction of Neurons ? No rather the shrinkage of Neurons therefore this is Change but does not qualify as brain damage...I think by defenition brain damage is permanent.

Also the claim that Alcohol has a greater potential to "Destroy brain cells" Than cocaine is completely untrue and not Harm reduction...Though neither necessarily do this Cocaine has by far the greater potential to induce Dopaminergic cell loss with long term Use.....I think my main point is that though many on this site don't want to hear it Alcohol is far less damaging to the brain than most illicit drugs.

Sorry Doldrugs I realise it wasn't you that made some of those claims.
 
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There's no question of definition. Neurotoxic has one definition used by scientists, experts, researchers, etc. Alcohol is neurotoxic by that definition. This is pretty well established.

Are you aware you can edit posts by clicking the pencil icon on the bottom right of your posts to add to your reply rather than posting multiple posts in a row?
 
Doldrugs said:
There's no question of definition. Neurotoxic has one definition used by scientists, experts, researchers, etc. Alcohol is neurotoxic by that definition. This is pretty well established.

Are you aware you can edit posts by clicking the pencil icon on the bottom right of your posts to add to your reply rather than posting multiple posts in a row?
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This. Please use the edit button rather than double and triple posting. I literally just had to merge like three quarters of this thread. Alcohol is indeed neurotoxic btw, from an outside perspective you sound like someone in denial about a drinking problem.
 
I understand but I didn't think it made that much of a difference and feel broken down in that way they are much easier and more likely to be read...Though I will merge from now on if I post anymore in this thread....No I don't have a drinking problem lol But yes I do drink....Again you might use the term Neurotoxic loosely in relation to alcohol but yes you can use it.....Again I can't imagine and won'rlt expect any support for my stance on Alcohol (That in comparison it is relatively safe)....I feel the need to stress this here because there is so much denial on the part of many drug users especially MDMA users who seem to think that by proving alcohol is harmful they somehow qualify their use of a paticular drug....The bottom line and the point I have been labouriosly making is that Alcohol is nowhere near as harmful to the brain as many recreational drugs staying on topic with the OP all I'm saying is that alcohol use is very unlikely to cause permanent damage to the brain...This is only seen with extreme abuse (I.E. years of daily abuse) It's not harm reduction to vilify alcohol because your not a drinker making people think that it's an evil dangerous substance (I understand it CAN be) basically encouraging them to try something almost certainly more harful....I've heard some ridiculous things concerning alcohol and it's harms relative to other drugs...I've even heard people claim MDMA is less harmful than alcohol...It's just irresponsible aklnd fair....Now I know i'm going to come in for a lot of flak on here from the reclusive drug users for insulting MDMA but as well as harm reduction we need to put harm into perspective.
 
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Your personal MDMA axe to grind doesn't have anything to do with whether alcohol is neurotoxic or not. You can't just make up different definitions for words that have a clearly established scientific definition.
 
Ok kind of a petty point to insist on making....My point is valid you've no objection other than that of the definition of Neurotoxic ?...Not wanting to get personal but looking at some of your posts on other threads it seems your far more concerned with appearing informed and clever than actually offering helpful advice (Not to say that you haven't offered up any helpful advice) but you've stuck rigidly to that single trivial point (Seeing as I accepted alcohol can cause damage).You insult people far too much condecending and making petty matter of fact statements.....I had to say it after looking through your posts..noit wanting this to decend into an argument on someone elses thread...Can I ask do you think Cocaine is neurotoxic ?.
 
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I don't understand...What do you think ?. That Thread is hardly conclusive the OP cites conflicting studies which is the point of his thread...That he doesn't seem know...There are countless people on here tht don't believe that cocaine is Neurotoxic.I don't understand why you linked that :/.
 
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