-
BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
What damages the brain/intelligence permanently more alcohol or cocaine
- Thread starter fluxin
- Start date
szuko000
Bluelight Crew
I am not exactly how to answer this question as theres a lot of different types of brain damage in a sense and often times it is not permanent. I do not have the sources to back up my stab at this so take it as you will. I would think alcohol would be harsher on the brain then cocaine. Cocaine may be more cardio toxic and worse in a lot of different ways but I think alcohol wins in the worse for the brain. Alcohol dehydrates you and appears to be more toxic for your liver and other organs then cocaine and it is also taken in greater quantities and often over extended periods of time by more people then cocaine. That doesnt make it "worse" chemically but there is a culture for drinking that also lends it to be "worse" in a societal sense.
I also believe a lot of what is considered brain damage and effects on intelligence are just temporary and our brains and bodies are capable of way more healing then we give them credit for.
*disclaimer all my opinion*
I also believe a lot of what is considered brain damage and effects on intelligence are just temporary and our brains and bodies are capable of way more healing then we give them credit for.
*disclaimer all my opinion*
PsychedelicWizard
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2014
- Messages
- 243
I'd like to know how we even can realistically quantify intelligence? IQ tests are really the best method, and even they are severely lacking.
Perhaps we can break "intelligence" down to various categories. Do you mean spatial intelligence, the awareness of your physical self in a 3D environment, immediate-cognitive intelligence, the ability to process information at a rapid space, memory-recalling intelligence, the ability to remember information from a long-term storage and recall it with varying accuracy, creative intelligence, the ability to synthesize new ideas from old or perhaps completely imagined data, social intelligence, the ability to relate to people in a real-time environment and assess emotional states and create desirable outcomes in this regard, dexterous fine-motor control intelligence, the ability to manipulate 3D objects in varying accuracy and speed, and there are probably hundreds, maybe thousands more if you wanted to really analyze it.
szuko000 is 100% correct, brain damage is temporary. The brain repairs itself constantly, in the same way that if you cut yourself the wound automatically heals itself, that is, provided a lack of continuous trauma, infections, complications, constant energy source of required materials to repair, etc. Even what was once considered permanent brain damage is no longer the case in many cases, there are numerous reports of surgeons, nutritionists, cognitive-behavioral therapists (like a physio-therapist for the brain), being able to repair what was considered final before, not to mention bizarre cases of spontaneous regeneration that have yet to be explained by current medical knowledge.
The idea that you drink/use cocaine and end up a drooling vegetable is just a plain fear-based fallacy.
Even the notion of damaging brain cells is quite laughable when you consider that we are constantly damaging skin cells for example, but also constantly repairing/replacing them, likewise with the brain.
I think you have to damage the brain to improve it, actually, much like you have to damage muscle fiber to make it stronger, the neuro-synapses must be damaged to function more efficiently, but there's a different kind of damage to taking a baseball to the head and reading a book, for example, both use energy, although to different end-results. Even more fascinating perhaps is people who have taken a crushing trauma to the head and ended up gaining some weird superpowers in terms of mental abilities.
There are these cases of people having underdeveloped brains in some areas from these traumas that their brain amazingly went on to over-develop in other spheres, creating what you call savants and geniuses who went on to invent or discover incredible things.
So I would not worry about it. Case in point; people who have smoked, drinked, and/or did drugs their whole lives, are currently 80+ and still very coherent and alert.
Who knows, maybe cocaine actually improves the brain? Shocking, I know.
Perhaps we can break "intelligence" down to various categories. Do you mean spatial intelligence, the awareness of your physical self in a 3D environment, immediate-cognitive intelligence, the ability to process information at a rapid space, memory-recalling intelligence, the ability to remember information from a long-term storage and recall it with varying accuracy, creative intelligence, the ability to synthesize new ideas from old or perhaps completely imagined data, social intelligence, the ability to relate to people in a real-time environment and assess emotional states and create desirable outcomes in this regard, dexterous fine-motor control intelligence, the ability to manipulate 3D objects in varying accuracy and speed, and there are probably hundreds, maybe thousands more if you wanted to really analyze it.
szuko000 is 100% correct, brain damage is temporary. The brain repairs itself constantly, in the same way that if you cut yourself the wound automatically heals itself, that is, provided a lack of continuous trauma, infections, complications, constant energy source of required materials to repair, etc. Even what was once considered permanent brain damage is no longer the case in many cases, there are numerous reports of surgeons, nutritionists, cognitive-behavioral therapists (like a physio-therapist for the brain), being able to repair what was considered final before, not to mention bizarre cases of spontaneous regeneration that have yet to be explained by current medical knowledge.
The idea that you drink/use cocaine and end up a drooling vegetable is just a plain fear-based fallacy.
Even the notion of damaging brain cells is quite laughable when you consider that we are constantly damaging skin cells for example, but also constantly repairing/replacing them, likewise with the brain.
I think you have to damage the brain to improve it, actually, much like you have to damage muscle fiber to make it stronger, the neuro-synapses must be damaged to function more efficiently, but there's a different kind of damage to taking a baseball to the head and reading a book, for example, both use energy, although to different end-results. Even more fascinating perhaps is people who have taken a crushing trauma to the head and ended up gaining some weird superpowers in terms of mental abilities.
There are these cases of people having underdeveloped brains in some areas from these traumas that their brain amazingly went on to over-develop in other spheres, creating what you call savants and geniuses who went on to invent or discover incredible things.
So I would not worry about it. Case in point; people who have smoked, drinked, and/or did drugs their whole lives, are currently 80+ and still very coherent and alert.
Who knows, maybe cocaine actually improves the brain? Shocking, I know.
Ah right awesome replies thanks. 
I stopped because I was paranoid I would end up like a zombie and lose my ability to perform in employment and socially but that maybe isn't the case? lol
Meth causes irreversible damage though?
I stopped because I was paranoid I would end up like a zombie and lose my ability to perform in employment and socially but that maybe isn't the case? lolMeth causes irreversible damage though?
Last edited by a moderator:
PsychedelicWizard
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2014
- Messages
- 243
Ah right awesome replies thanks.
It isn't the case at all. I'm a regular meth user and sometimes I go on multi-day binges, and I haven't touched any for two weeks (no funds ATM), and I'm doing fine. The first few days are rough, but you recover fast. Your brain can fully recover in months.
Pretty much the majority of the withdrawal is psychological, that is, after a few nights of sleeping and eating only. However, with long-term meth use, it can be very hard to recover, at least in my experience.
Meth is more addicting than heroin because the withdrawal is so psychological. Heroin, you are dopesick and want to feel good, meth, you simply don't feel cognitively right, depression, withdrawn, but it comes-and-goes.
I'd not recommend someone just trying meth, because the experience is so incredibly easy to lead into full-blown addiction (like me). The reason? It isn't like heroin or cocaine where it really is mainly a party/relaxation drug, it really is beneficial to getting boring work done, leading to it being easy to slip into chronic usage, and then the withdrawal makes it so you can't ever quit if you have any kind of social or working life, as you need energy to do it.
It more leads you to levels you cannot obtain without it, and usually the damage it causes is it depletes your ability to function without it.
While you do gain tremendous boosts of confidence, energy, sociability, creative ideas, and other good stuff, depending on the experience, it also takes from you those things as much as it gave, leading to you feeling very drained for awhile, while you slowly creep back to baseline. Problem is once you are used to being up, you don't want to be down further than when you started at baseline, so chronic use becomes a problem.
The only irreversible damage I'd be concerned with is how it shifts your reality. You will not be the same person afterwards, that is for sure. I just don't know if it is psychosis or if it is like cannabis, a religious vehicle.
Either way, I'd recommend avoiding meth for the most part, or leaving it to weekends. Too easy to slip into a chronic user than be out of money and fucked for awhile (happens to me).
Still, a great drug overall if you don't mind being hooked.
Last edited by a moderator:
mulholland602
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2014
- Messages
- 31
I'm really not sure the jury is still out...I'm wondering the same thing never experienced any 'Neurological' Syptoms taking it on and off over the course of about 18 Months...But then Around a year ago went on a massive binge in which I must have consumed upward of 8 Grams and have never felt the same since..Though saying that there are reports of people having massive addictions and taking 10-15 Grams a day for months that don't seem to have suffered all that greatly...Although I have experienced the problems I have my opinion and the general consensus seems to be that Mephedrone is comparatively quite benign.
It is certainly without doubt far better for your brain than MDMA something that in my opinion should never be taken...There are reports of people doing Gram Lines,4 Gram lines,Iv'ing etc. I'm assuming considering your concern that your nowhere near that territory so...Of the studies that had been done there has been indication of neurotoxicity at higher doses though it's not known of what significance this is......Craig Moteby's study,The first of it's kind,Failed to find direct evidence of neurotoxicity I.E Damage to the brain but did find that there was a memory defecit in the Rats used...The half life of Mephedrone is short which causes the compulsion to redose but from what I know a shorter acting Drug is far better for your brain than a longer acting one like MDMA....
Again Sorry for going on but this is a subject close to my heart dze to my experience...Anecdotally I have never found anyone that seems to have Significant intellectual impairment but a defecit in memory does defenitely occur but this is usually transient....The greatest danger that I experienced was the compulsion to re-dose and for me.it was just that a compulsion....Though for some it's. near impossible try and limit your doses and Pre-load with antioxidants Vitamin C etc.
It is certainly without doubt far better for your brain than MDMA something that in my opinion should never be taken...There are reports of people doing Gram Lines,4 Gram lines,Iv'ing etc. I'm assuming considering your concern that your nowhere near that territory so...Of the studies that had been done there has been indication of neurotoxicity at higher doses though it's not known of what significance this is......Craig Moteby's study,The first of it's kind,Failed to find direct evidence of neurotoxicity I.E Damage to the brain but did find that there was a memory defecit in the Rats used...The half life of Mephedrone is short which causes the compulsion to redose but from what I know a shorter acting Drug is far better for your brain than a longer acting one like MDMA....
Again Sorry for going on but this is a subject close to my heart dze to my experience...Anecdotally I have never found anyone that seems to have Significant intellectual impairment but a defecit in memory does defenitely occur but this is usually transient....The greatest danger that I experienced was the compulsion to re-dose and for me.it was just that a compulsion....Though for some it's. near impossible try and limit your doses and Pre-load with antioxidants Vitamin C etc.
Last edited by a moderator:
mulholland602
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2014
- Messages
- 31
Cocaine isn't Neurotoxic a such but neither is Alcohol but they both have the potential to damage the brain with long term use.....If you suffer a Mini-stroke then of course that is Cocaine indirectly damaging your brain but...This is only in extreme cases If you have any kind of Stroke then you would need Hospital Treament there are alot of drugs and lifestyle choices that increase the Risk.of Stroke.
All things considered (And I mean all Price,Experience,Harm etc.) Mephedrone has to be top of the list for all round best experience the buzz is second to none (Even MDMA IMO) It's cheap and relatively less harmful than alot of other sunsrances...Paticularly MDMA,METH,And a good number of legal highs that shouldn't even be on the market.
All things considered (And I mean all Price,Experience,Harm etc.) Mephedrone has to be top of the list for all round best experience the buzz is second to none (Even MDMA IMO) It's cheap and relatively less harmful than alot of other sunsrances...Paticularly MDMA,METH,And a good number of legal highs that shouldn't even be on the market.
Last edited by a moderator:
No one knows how safe mephedrone is. There's plenty of data on the safety of methamphetamine and MDMA. Comparing the two, and favoring mephedrone, is not supportable by any existing data.
mulholland602
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2014
- Messages
- 31
In fact there are one or two limited studies concerning Mephedrone that suggest it is nowhere near as harmful as the other two....We coukd sit here all day kong arguing that nothings conclusive and that we can't actually prove MDMA neurotoxicity in humans when in fact in a number of cases and studies it is evident..Now of course in years to come we may find that Mephedrone causes some unforseen adverse reaction in Long-Term users but as of yet it has failed to show anywhere near the harm of the other two...I made reference in an earlier post to the stories of addiction that can be found here and elswhere in which people can take Mephedrone in extreme doses for months daily and do not APPEAR to suffer severe long term sequalae......It's clear from the tone of the OP that he has intention of using a drug/drugs therefore Harm reduction as always on here is the Key...As Elimination seems unlikely....So therefore to tell him that it's all inconclusive and for all we know it's all as harmful as the next drug does him a disservice....He will not get away with regular MDMA abuse....He will not get away With Regular Methamphetamine abuse....But he will almost certainly be able to sustain regular Mephedrone abuse (Not that it's advisable)...The tone of your post seems to put MDMA and Methamphetamine on par with Mephedrone.....Please honestly tell me...Though we have this dearth of 'Data' do you truly believe that Mephedrone could possibly be as harmful ??...
Mephedrone is an unknown compared to MDMA and meth. Comparing them is absurd. Your belief that mephedrone is safe seems like wishful thinking to me. Methamphetamine can be used medically. MDMA, when used responsibly, has an excellent safety profile. OP hasn't even mentioned MDMA or regular dosing with any of the mentioned substances. So you're coming in here and offering up advice that's neither asked for nor good harm reduction. OP is asking really basic questions and you're saying "you should abuse mephedrone, a relatively new RC." Even if we're imagining drugs we want OP to be addicted to (which is not what we should be doing), that still seems like a bizarre choice.
mulholland602
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2014
- Messages
- 31
I'm going by a nunber of questions the OP has asked on Bluelight as to the potential harm of a number of drugs...My posts are not so much an encouragement to take Mephedrone but more discouragement away from MDMA and Methamphetamine the OP appears to be concerned primarily with the health of his Brain therefore I believe my advice would be of some use....To say that Methamphetamine can be used medically seems as if you yourself are being rather indulgent (Not suggesting your a user but this smacks of self justification) we are talking about drugs of abuse not medical use here....I'm sure we could find some tenuous medical.use for.almost any compound (Just look at MDMA and PTSD I'm sure low dose Mephedrone would serve just aswell in a clinical setting) Again it were never my intention to encourage the use of Mephedrone but for the sake of harm reduction I felt the need to suggest that in terms of neurology Mephedrone most probably/Defenitely is a less harmful alternative..
Dresden
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2010
- Messages
- 3,212
The brain has very high what scientists call, "plasticity," meaning it is very good at "bouncing back" (healing itself) from damage.
As far as ethyl alcohol and cocaine, EtOH is probably worse as it actually kills brain cells, something not even MDMA does. Both cocaine and alcohol are bad when used excessively, but long term, moderate usage causes no real harm. Be aware that cocaine is one of the most addictive--if not the most addictive--recreational drug out there, and the more you take/use, the worse the cravings get, and for powdered cocaine, the worse the comedown will eventually be.
But yeah, I have a 102 year old great uncle who drank liquor every evening/afternoon for years and years (well into his 90s I think), and he's still alive. He's nearly deaf, but alive.
As far as ethyl alcohol and cocaine, EtOH is probably worse as it actually kills brain cells, something not even MDMA does. Both cocaine and alcohol are bad when used excessively, but long term, moderate usage causes no real harm. Be aware that cocaine is one of the most addictive--if not the most addictive--recreational drug out there, and the more you take/use, the worse the cravings get, and for powdered cocaine, the worse the comedown will eventually be.
But yeah, I have a 102 year old great uncle who drank liquor every evening/afternoon for years and years (well into his 90s I think), and he's still alive. He's nearly deaf, but alive.
My grandfather smoked a pipe every day, lived into his 90s and never got any tobacco associated cancers. These are both great examples of why individual anecdotes are meaningless and statistics and scientifically backed data are valuable.
What are you using and how regularly? DARE was lying to you when they told you "just one time ruins your life."
Like 2 g of Charles once a month.
People use slang inconsistently to mean multiple things, especially by region, which is why being specific works a lot better on a global message board. I'm gonna assume you mean powder cocaine, I guess.
You'll be fine, but personally I wouldn't touch the shit because there's no way to detect and remove some potentially dangerous cuts.
You'll be fine, but personally I wouldn't touch the shit because there's no way to detect and remove some potentially dangerous cuts.