What comes next?
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BigTrancer
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Hopefully it will be something that isn't absolutely contraindicated with alcohol, enclosed hot places, and physical activity. Furthermore it would ideally be a drug that has a short elimination half-life in the body so that people aren't leaving the clubs still fucked out of their minds. It would need to be something that's easily dosed, as powders and shots are impractical in a public setting.
All the 'club drugs' that people use currently seem to suffer from these downfalls. If it's not something that's risky to use in a club environment due to environmental factors or drug combinations, it's hard to dose or too long lasting. With a short acting drug (say <90min effects like ketamine), oral ingestion can become unwieldy, as it takes about half that time to absorb. With something longer lasting like acid or dxm, people drive home wasted. With something that seems to be IDEAL for a club (IMHO) cocaine... you have to snort it and it's expensive. THC is a dead giveaway when you're smoking it as people can smell it a mile away. Nitrous requires paraphernalia and is WAY too short lasting. GHB and analogues are so dangerous with alcohol that I can scarcely believe people are foolhardy enough to take bottels of it into clubs, given the risks. Heroin kinda doesn't fit due to the difficult of shooting in a club and the effects are more introspective than social. Alcohol is widespread, but lasts long enough to present a problem for drivers. Speed and MDMA seem to be about the best options of the current drugs, for the least inconvenience and risk, but they make you heat up inside a hot club, while you're dancing, so they've got their own downfalls too.
So what fits the bill for the 'new and improved' club drug? None of the current club drugs seem to be perfect really, but they all seem to have found their place. Many of the newer research chemicals that I have tried seem to be either intensely psychedelic, and very long lasting... or totally unsuitable as a complement to the clubbing atmosphere.
To be honest, I think that a club environment is absolutely inappropriate for enjoying most drugs. Far better to recreate that environment in your home, where you have safety and can alter anything about the experience to suit yourself, and then get into bed when you're over it. The subtle effects of quite a few of the research chemicals would be missed entirely in the noise and confusion of a club too, so it detracts from the drug experience. Maybe I'm looking for the perfect drug club, rather than the perfect club drug... but I think a more complete enjoyment of a drug experience can be found at home with friends and your own choice of atmosphere and/or music. Taking drugs at a club in a public setting increases the risks on a number of levels.
I think that the next club drug will probably be a stimulant, but I'm not sure. People make wierd choices sometimes...
BigTrancer
All the 'club drugs' that people use currently seem to suffer from these downfalls. If it's not something that's risky to use in a club environment due to environmental factors or drug combinations, it's hard to dose or too long lasting. With a short acting drug (say <90min effects like ketamine), oral ingestion can become unwieldy, as it takes about half that time to absorb. With something longer lasting like acid or dxm, people drive home wasted. With something that seems to be IDEAL for a club (IMHO) cocaine... you have to snort it and it's expensive. THC is a dead giveaway when you're smoking it as people can smell it a mile away. Nitrous requires paraphernalia and is WAY too short lasting. GHB and analogues are so dangerous with alcohol that I can scarcely believe people are foolhardy enough to take bottels of it into clubs, given the risks. Heroin kinda doesn't fit due to the difficult of shooting in a club and the effects are more introspective than social. Alcohol is widespread, but lasts long enough to present a problem for drivers. Speed and MDMA seem to be about the best options of the current drugs, for the least inconvenience and risk, but they make you heat up inside a hot club, while you're dancing, so they've got their own downfalls too.
So what fits the bill for the 'new and improved' club drug? None of the current club drugs seem to be perfect really, but they all seem to have found their place. Many of the newer research chemicals that I have tried seem to be either intensely psychedelic, and very long lasting... or totally unsuitable as a complement to the clubbing atmosphere.
To be honest, I think that a club environment is absolutely inappropriate for enjoying most drugs. Far better to recreate that environment in your home, where you have safety and can alter anything about the experience to suit yourself, and then get into bed when you're over it. The subtle effects of quite a few of the research chemicals would be missed entirely in the noise and confusion of a club too, so it detracts from the drug experience. Maybe I'm looking for the perfect drug club, rather than the perfect club drug... but I think a more complete enjoyment of a drug experience can be found at home with friends and your own choice of atmosphere and/or music. Taking drugs at a club in a public setting increases the risks on a number of levels.
I think that the next club drug will probably be a stimulant, but I'm not sure. People make wierd choices sometimes...
BigTrancer
Pleonastic
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Prolly something we've never even heard of yet... remember MDMA was only first widely used in the 80's - before that most people wouldn't have really heard anything about it at all. But now, can you imagine a world without it? It just seems like it's always been there...
This will also be the reason why when we're grown up and have kids and no longer do drugs, we'll be trying to stop our children from trying the latest substances because "they haven't been tested, and there's no research, and we've never done it ourselves so we can't relate".
The cycle continues...
This will also be the reason why when we're grown up and have kids and no longer do drugs, we'll be trying to stop our children from trying the latest substances because "they haven't been tested, and there's no research, and we've never done it ourselves so we can't relate".
The cycle continues...
Leprechaun
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Well said BT. I'll take a different angle to this discussion.
I was actually having a conversation with a friend not too long ago about this subject.
We discussed the various effects people look for in a drug and what provides for great night out. We realise that the good time was based on a great many factors, too many to indicate that it was the "drug" that provided the good time, this was probably one of the lesser factors. We felt that concept of the "next" club drug had more to do with trends and culture more than purely the effects of drugs. A drug becomes popular if people experience it and gain a positive experience from it. Yet it is not only the drug that becomes the next big thing, it is the entire culture.
Most drugs can offer positive experiences, some are variable in what they show you, psychedelics are extremely variable in their effect, yet in the late 60's the american psychedelic culture was born through not only the perceptions gained through LSD but also due to the world situation at the time. In the mid 80's there was a large boom in cocaine use in america, this was also attributed to the culture at the time.
In the late 90's there has been a boom of ecstasy use. Like england the Australian rave seen has slowly shifted from the underground into the mainstream club culture, with people taking ecstasy left right and center. This is not only due to the drug, but the cultural trends and social situation present in the world. It is interesting to point out however that most countries hit by this "wave" of ecstasy have followed the almost exact same path of evolution... Interesting.
In conclusion to our discussion I took the point of view that there is no such thing as a NEXT BIG CLUB DRUG:
Primarily because a drug is associated with a culture. Things may change to such an extent that clubs might be called something else in the next few years, the music may change quite drastically, the types of drugs available may change, the world view may shift in a different direction, etc... etc... All these factors seem to form many feedback loops that create a movement as a whole.
Secondly, most drugs are experienced due to the preconception people have about the drug. How many people have I heard now that have said, "LSD man thats bad shit, it fucks you up, it stays in your brain forever!". Sooner or later the dangers of MDMA use will sink in and I wouldn't be too surprised if you hear people eating 2ct7, then being offered MDMA and saying, "that shit is bad man, it gives you holes in your brain." Its not their fault, not everyone spends hours on end research various chemicals like some of us!
The preconception of the drug is also likely to effect the usage. Most people take new drugs because that don't want to know the negative effects, or they want to be ignorant of them.
Cheers!
What a ramble!
I was actually having a conversation with a friend not too long ago about this subject.
We discussed the various effects people look for in a drug and what provides for great night out. We realise that the good time was based on a great many factors, too many to indicate that it was the "drug" that provided the good time, this was probably one of the lesser factors. We felt that concept of the "next" club drug had more to do with trends and culture more than purely the effects of drugs. A drug becomes popular if people experience it and gain a positive experience from it. Yet it is not only the drug that becomes the next big thing, it is the entire culture.
Most drugs can offer positive experiences, some are variable in what they show you, psychedelics are extremely variable in their effect, yet in the late 60's the american psychedelic culture was born through not only the perceptions gained through LSD but also due to the world situation at the time. In the mid 80's there was a large boom in cocaine use in america, this was also attributed to the culture at the time.
In the late 90's there has been a boom of ecstasy use. Like england the Australian rave seen has slowly shifted from the underground into the mainstream club culture, with people taking ecstasy left right and center. This is not only due to the drug, but the cultural trends and social situation present in the world. It is interesting to point out however that most countries hit by this "wave" of ecstasy have followed the almost exact same path of evolution... Interesting.
In conclusion to our discussion I took the point of view that there is no such thing as a NEXT BIG CLUB DRUG:
Primarily because a drug is associated with a culture. Things may change to such an extent that clubs might be called something else in the next few years, the music may change quite drastically, the types of drugs available may change, the world view may shift in a different direction, etc... etc... All these factors seem to form many feedback loops that create a movement as a whole.
Secondly, most drugs are experienced due to the preconception people have about the drug. How many people have I heard now that have said, "LSD man thats bad shit, it fucks you up, it stays in your brain forever!". Sooner or later the dangers of MDMA use will sink in and I wouldn't be too surprised if you hear people eating 2ct7, then being offered MDMA and saying, "that shit is bad man, it gives you holes in your brain." Its not their fault, not everyone spends hours on end research various chemicals like some of us!
The preconception of the drug is also likely to effect the usage. Most people take new drugs because that don't want to know the negative effects, or they want to be ignorant of them.
Cheers!
What a ramble!
Leprechaun
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Also, I doubt 5-MEO-Amt will be a likely for being a club drug.
How are you going to rack up lines of 2mg doses! With a reportedly near fatal case of 12mg intranasally.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=16817
I feel the dose response response curve is just too steep.
How are you going to rack up lines of 2mg doses!
With a reportedly near fatal case of 12mg intranasally. http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php3?ID=16817
I feel the dose response response curve is just too steep.
BigTrancer
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SeveredPsyche
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I also think the next one will be a stimulant, but I think it depends a bit on tastes in music and what they are looking for when they go out. Early to mid 90s were about LSD, pot and shrooms for me and some people I know still prefer acid to e when going out. The next club (or rave?) drug could be a psychadelic of some sort, maybe one that isn't quite such an intense headfuck as LSD is. Possibly combination pills such as MDMA/LSD, or are these already around?
Soma: I guess someone had to say it. However, nights I've enjoyed most have been with good people and good drugs. I can't remember a time going out straight and sober and having what I would call a fantastic time. Good time, yes, but not the orgasmic highs of others. The weekend just gone I was at a place where I didn't like the music much at all but still had a great night. Sometimes I like to listen to good music and jump around a bit, other times it is more a social occasion so the music isn't quite so important to me.
Soma: I guess someone had to say it. However, nights I've enjoyed most have been with good people and good drugs. I can't remember a time going out straight and sober and having what I would call a fantastic time. Good time, yes, but not the orgasmic highs of others. The weekend just gone I was at a place where I didn't like the music much at all but still had a great night. Sometimes I like to listen to good music and jump around a bit, other times it is more a social occasion so the music isn't quite so important to me.
Leprechaun and BT have posted thought provoking responses to a fairly interesting question. I agree with everything that both of them said, but I have a slightly different viewpoint again.
Given the current trend of research into the central nervous system, and the exponential growth of knowledge on how the different cells in the brain interact, combined with ever increasing research into the functional anatomy of the brain, I think its possible that the next big "drug" could be something other than a chemical entirely.
Chatting with BT on the subject, it has occured to us that chemicals are a very inefficient method of altering state of consciousness. The combined knowledge of neuroscience and technology should be sufficient to invent electrically stimulated neurotransmitter release. This is a similar idea to early experiments with rats and mice where they had to press a button to recieve a dose of a drug, but this method doesn't work through the mediator of chemical ingestion, simply altering cell electrical potential to cause release of pleasurable neurotransmitters. This way you press a button, and instantaneously experience pleasure, rather than the old, passe method of "waiting for your come up".
So isn't it possible that people could stash battery powered stimulators in their pockets rather than pills in their undies? Sure this could be easily abused, and you'd see people pushing buttons repeatedly, not listening to the music or chatting to anyone. . . . . . . .
But haven't we all seen VERY similar people at today's clubs? Just as todays drugs cause neurotransmitter depletion, so would electrical stimulation, so it would also have to come down some time. Until someone invents a way to actually inject synthesised neurotransmitters directly into a synapse, we will always have the problem of over-secretion of neurotransmitters, and subsequent depletion.
Societies methods of fucking itself over royally are advancing just as rapidly as drugs and technology.
Aldous Huxley eat your heart out.
Raider
Given the current trend of research into the central nervous system, and the exponential growth of knowledge on how the different cells in the brain interact, combined with ever increasing research into the functional anatomy of the brain, I think its possible that the next big "drug" could be something other than a chemical entirely.
Chatting with BT on the subject, it has occured to us that chemicals are a very inefficient method of altering state of consciousness. The combined knowledge of neuroscience and technology should be sufficient to invent electrically stimulated neurotransmitter release. This is a similar idea to early experiments with rats and mice where they had to press a button to recieve a dose of a drug, but this method doesn't work through the mediator of chemical ingestion, simply altering cell electrical potential to cause release of pleasurable neurotransmitters. This way you press a button, and instantaneously experience pleasure, rather than the old, passe method of "waiting for your come up".
So isn't it possible that people could stash battery powered stimulators in their pockets rather than pills in their undies? Sure this could be easily abused, and you'd see people pushing buttons repeatedly, not listening to the music or chatting to anyone. . . . . . . .
But haven't we all seen VERY similar people at today's clubs? Just as todays drugs cause neurotransmitter depletion, so would electrical stimulation, so it would also have to come down some time. Until someone invents a way to actually inject synthesised neurotransmitters directly into a synapse, we will always have the problem of over-secretion of neurotransmitters, and subsequent depletion.
Societies methods of fucking itself over royally are advancing just as rapidly as drugs and technology.
Aldous Huxley eat your heart out.
Raider
BigTrancer
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Yesterday, I heard from a promotional representative from Glaxo who told me that they are on the verge of launching a new herbal remedy that they think will take the market by storm.
This drug sounds so promising that I want to consider buying stock in the company...
The drug is called "Ginkgo Viagra," and its function is to help you remember what the fuck you are doing.
BigTrancer
This drug sounds so promising that I want to consider buying stock in the company...
The drug is called "Ginkgo Viagra," and its function is to help you remember what the fuck you are doing.
BigTrancer
sleepDeprived
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Raider said:
Yeh, when the batteries die... LOL
themagicmushroom
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I think 2CB is gonna become very popular fairly soon.
Negro-kitty
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This is my opinion as well.
Tabernacle
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Interesting ideas posited here by BT, Raider and Lep. Electrically mediated neurotransmitter release is a very interesting idea although administering the impulse to the desired region of the brain would require some damn funky helmets with wires going everywhere. I think people would tire of pushing buttons the whole time, and eventually just go back to chems with reuptake inhibitors. Next club drug? who knows i'd have said something similar to 2CB yet it pretty full on psychedelic and lasts a while. Cocaethanol maby, the drink you just can't put down (does it exist outside the body?).
BT: i'll buy shares in your drug club, would it have a lab on site?
*drools* mmmm fresh drugs.
Professor Bouncers "I'm sorry mate ya need at least a ugrad, majoring in biochem or pharmacology to get in here
P.S. I agree drugs in clubs blow, drugs at home glow
[Edit: I think you mean 'cocaethylene', ie. the metabolism byproduct of cocaine + alcohol. BT]
BT: i'll buy shares in your drug club, would it have a lab on site?
*drools* mmmm fresh drugs.
Professor Bouncers "I'm sorry mate ya need at least a ugrad, majoring in biochem or pharmacology to get in here
P.S. I agree drugs in clubs blow, drugs at home glow
[Edit: I think you mean 'cocaethylene', ie. the metabolism byproduct of cocaine + alcohol. BT]
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