What aspects of the atheist religion do you like/dislike?

[Pegasus]

^Yeah, I use Taoism for the view on life as well. I don't have an exact religion I ascribe to, but Taoism is pretty close, minus some of the mysticism. I consider the self-actualization concept of Tao to be pretty spiritual though. I could also consider myself a Christian Deist, as I follow many of the general principles of Christianity but again, none of the mystical aspects. I think the best way to describe it is that I take what I find profound from each religion that I experience.

I was thinking the other day about common themes among religions, and the one I've decided on being most crucial is the concept of being watched or judged in daily life. I believe this mindset is crucial for human society, as our society depends on humans working together. The concept of being watched acts then as a form of social contract. I think this mindset explains why we have the competition between religions that we have today, as different societies understand why they must work together with members of their own society, but haven't yet reached the understanding that they must work together with all members of the world. In time, I think this will have to change for our global society to advance past the current conflict in which we find ourselves.

 

[freemind]

As atheist I have to disagree, atheism is not a religion and is not an organized belief system, since the only thing someone has to agree to be atheist is there is no god or goddess. I also don't think it is a belief, since atheist don't believe. Atheists do disbelieve.
There are both atheists and religious people who don't respect the others because their different opinions about religion and about the existence of the Creator. These people have closed minds and claim know and think much more they actually do, and must be ignored.

What is really important is the search for truth and answers are always provisional. Close your mind is prevent change of mind. Prevent change of mind is prevent evolution of mind.

Anyway, I am atheist because I didn't find scientific, logical or statistic evidences that point to the existence of any god or goddess, and I spend a lot of time looking for these evidences because, as I said, answers are provisional. I try to make other people change their minds being polite and tolerant. Other way, it would be egotism.

 

[qwe]

What aspects of the atheist religion do you like/dislike?

this title.

 

[sarcophagus.heels]

^Yeah, I use Taoism for the view on life as well. I don't have an exact religion I ascribe to, but Taoism is pretty close, minus some of the mysticism. I consider the self-actualization concept of Tao to be pretty spiritual though. I could also consider myself a Christian Deist, as I follow many of the general principles of Christianity but again, none of the mystical aspects. I think the best way to describe it is that I take what I find profound from each religion that I experience.

I was thinking the other day about common themes among religions, and the one I've decided on being most crucial is the concept of being watched or judged in daily life. I believe this mindset is crucial for human society, as our society depends on humans working together. The concept of being watched acts then as a form of social contract. I think this mindset explains why we have the competition between religions that we have today, as different societies understand why they must work together with members of their own society, but haven't yet reached the understanding that they must work together with all members of the world. In time, I think this will have to change for our global society to advance past the current conflict in which we find ourselves.

Have you ever read Elementary Forms of Religious Life? I read it for a class last year, and Durkheim has interesting ideas on the origins and purpose of religion. He is not a religious man, but he believes that religion plays a role in society. Basically, the argument he presents is that religion is society's way of experiencing itself - that is, the individual is only able to understand the power that society has over him through the guys of a supernatural force acting on him. All religions divide things into two categories - the sacred and the profane - in the same way that society is divided into the society and the individual. That which is sacred aligns with that which is societal. It's an interesting (albeit lengthy) read - if you have the time, I highly recommend it.

I don't think that religion is necessary for society to function - in fact, I think the world would probably be better off without it. Most atrocities committed in these world are done in the name of government and/or religion, which is why I'm opposed to both. In the oft quoted words of Stephen Weinburg, "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." There's nothing wrong with approaching religious systems and taking what you find meaningful from them and integrating them into your moral system - again, I find that to be more philosophical than religious, and philosophy can be greatly beneficial. But that is a far more sensible approach to religion than most have - the grand majority of people die belonging to the same religion they were born into, and can be incredibly indoctrinated.

 

[A Blind Guy]

I have no idea what spirituality even is, and I'm prefacing my argument with that.
I have never felt the existence of something outside of myself. I do not understand how anyone could, and even under the hold of copious amounts of psychedelics I never once thought of or felt the existence of some... thing.

Pegasus said something that irritated me slightly; "everyone needs spiritual guidance in this life" and to that I will say no, you need spiritual guidance, but what is spiritual guidance anyway?
Is there anything anyone here has legitimately gained from having religion or spirituality that could not been found from other sources?
I propose no, there isn't. Morality is not god given, it is derived from our higher cognitive functions. We can use logic and reason, and so we know what is right and what is wrong, there is no need for God, any god for that matter.
Mental strength could be gained through physical exercise, as you learn to handle more pain and stress and push yourself further, your mind does the same thing. You have to learn to overcome your own mental blocks before you can do any strenuous physical performance.

So no, I do not need spiritual guidance. I know who I am, what I want to do, where I'm going, what I'm capable of. I am strong of mind and of body, and it did not take religion. It took exercise and psychedelics.

And think about religion for a couple seconds. One person believes in God, and another person believes in Allah. They will kill each other trying to prove that their God is real and another person's God is not... but there are hundreds of religions that have existed. And each religion has a holy book, which they use to argue for their God while also saying that everyone else's holy book and God are wrong.

Has anyone here read the book "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity Before Christ"?
It points out that there are 37 religions that have the same basic plot lines and moral codes as Christianity, before Moses even existed. Which means that the Jesus story was 1) Not original, 2) The morality in the bible was not original and therefore was not above the imagination of mortal men and requires no divine revelation, and a whole host of other interesting arguments against religion.

I am an atheist in that I do not believe the religions of humanity. Is there something out there? I do not know. If there is, he doesn't really care about us, with cancer, scholiosis, degenerative genetic diseases, and the scope of the universe as evidence.
If there is a creator, he is not personal to us, and is not what is defined in the Bible or any Holy Book ever written. It is arrogant and ignorant to think that your clan captured and quantified the creator of the Universe in words and that everyone else is wrong.

Also the obvious paradoxes about the God definition; the omnipotent/omniscience/free will paradoxes, the problem of evil, the problem of hell, the problem of multiple beliefs definitely lends credence to the fact that God as defined by man does not, and could not, exist.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/worldssixteen_crucifiedsaviors.pdf

That's a .pdf file of the book I mentioned. It is long but definitely worth reading if you want to learn the actual truth about your religion and the history of the religions of

 

[Pegasus]

@sarcophogas.heels I haven't read that, it sounds right up my alley though!

Regarding the second part of your post, I don't think religion is necessary for society to function if we're talking about theoretical or future societies. In today's world however, face it, there are a lot of people that are religious and there will probably still be when we die. In our world then, I don't see it possible for society to function without religion, and this is the assumption on which I was basing my earlier comments.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Atheism isn't a religion, it has no imposing order. At best you can call Dawkins a Statist. As to the question (rewritten a little) what aspects of atheism like/dislike. It of course widens the narrow scope of religious dogma but could lead to a disease called, "Ayn Rand Disease". Very serious disease indeed.

 

[freemind]

So no, I do not need spiritual guidance. I know who I am, what I want to do, where I'm going, what I'm capable of. I am strong of mind and of body, and it did not take religion. It took exercise and psychedelics.

Maybe psychedelics are the bases of many religions, including christianism.
We have a lot of sacred plants and fungi in shamanism, the most archaic and primitive form of spirituality. Mushrooms, both psilocybin and muscarinic (even if the compounds responsible for the effects are muscimol and ibotenic acid), peyote, salvia, many plants containing DMT which are orally active with the presence of some beta-Carboline, other plant derived snuffs, cannabis, sinicuichi... the list is endless.
I have not made research about psychedelic presence in the judaic-christian cult but today ayahuasca is used in Santo Daime, in a mix of psychedelic journey and christianity. Anyway, there are some paintings in old churches where the appearance of Tree of Knowledge is very similar to Amanita muscaria. I would recommend the documentaries Manifesting the Mind, DMT - The Spirit Molecule and Shamans of The Amazon. If they are good sources of information, anyway, I don't know.

So, we have psychedelics, drugs and other mind altering ritual practices in ancient religion. If the major factor of the dogma are not the drugs, what remains are the personal beliefs of the people. Different people, different places in the world, different gods. It is not difficult to realize that the worst punishment for someone who lives in a hot desert is a cave full of fire.

 

[A Blind Guy]

Maybe psychedelics are the bases of many religions, including christianism.
We have a lot of sacred plants and fungi in shamanism, the most archaic and primitive form of spirituality. Mushrooms, both psilocybin and muscarinic (even if the compounds responsible for the effects are muscimol and ibotenic acid), peyote, salvia, many plants containing DMT which are orally active with the presence of some beta-Carboline, other plant derived snuffs, cannabis, sinicuichi... the list is endless.
I have not made research about psychedelic presence in the judaic-christian cult but today ayahuasca is used in Santo Daime, in a mix of psychedelic journey and christianity. Anyway, there are some paintings in old churches where the appearance of Tree of Knowledge is very similar to Amanita muscaria. I would recommend the documentaries Manifesting the Mind, DMT - The Spirit Molecule and Shamans of The Amazon. If they are good sources of information, anyway, I don't know.

So, we have psychedelics, drugs and other mind altering ritual practices in ancient religion. If the major factor of the dogma are not the drugs, what remains are the personal beliefs of the people. Different people, different places in the world, different gods. It is not difficult to realize that the worst punishment for someone who lives in a hot desert is a cave full of fire.

There were reports of ancient use of very powerful psychoactive mushrooms found at the base of Mt. Sinai. Did I spell that right? Sinai, the one Moses found the commandments on. Yeah. That's an interesting coincidence. Google it to make sure I'm not lying, though.

I think a worse punishment for someone in a hot desert is a mouth full of fire, not a cave. "Fire For A Dry Mouth" comes to mind. Damn you, BTBAM

But can someone tell me what spirituality is and why I might not have it?

 

[HeWhoHowls]

How about terms like "make-beliefs" or "fables"? Obviously the stories have a message and are very old. A question I often would like to ask theists is wether or not they believe stories like Adam and Eve in a literal, historically correct sense, that a creator literally crafted one man then used his rib to clone a woman. Or if these stories are understood the same way fables are understood, in that Adam and Eve are just symbols for the relativity of all mankind? I can understand that there was a time when these tales were seen as literal truth, but in the modern age I have a hard time believing that so many people truly see them as such. Heaven and hell is another example. Is heaven a physical place where good people live after they die while hell is a physical place where not so nice people live after they die? Or are heaven and hell symbolic states that one creates while he is still living?

No, cuz religion is more than stories passed dwn through the millennia.
They are meanings n guidelines that helps you live a good life; well, for sane ppl at least.
I dnt believe in much of the literal interpretation, I do see it as highly esoteric n symbolic.
It is meant to be that way to seperate those not paying real attention n listening with your soul.
I dnt believe much of Genesis as literal but i do consider it absolutely possible for an enlightened man to walk the earth n literally perform various miracles.
Heres the kicker, Jesus Christ is not the only being who can do this.
Fuck, basically every village in Africa n South America have their own Jesus. A shaman envoking consciousness to act upon matter; it is not done by them but through them.
I believe all consciousness is intertwined n stems from a singular mass consciousness that we become apart of.
Becoming a part of God, we are all lil bits of divinity.
Heaven n Hell arent places, but states of being.
Without a body you cant be in a physical place.
I would imagine Hell being your permanent nightmare or just existing in a void feeling nothing but a soupy mess of every negative emotion.
Heaven would be the very opposite.
Treat your life n others in a healing manner, rise back to the cosmic bubble n either wait to remanifest or eternally exist in this realm which really cant be described by words.
But the same could be said for Hell.
Treat your life n others in a harmful manner, you can go fuck yourself.
Fuckin manifesto right there.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

No, cuz religion is more than stories passed dwn through the millennia.
They are meanings n guidelines that helps you live a good life; well, for sane ppl at least.
I dnt believe in much of the literal interpretation, I do see it as highly esoteric n symbolic.
It is meant to be that way to seperate those not paying real attention n listening with your soul.
I dnt believe much of Genesis as literal but i do consider it absolutely possible for an enlightened man to walk the earth n literally perform various miracles.
Heres the kicker, Jesus Christ is not the only being who can do this.
Fuck, basically every village in Africa n South America have their own Jesus. A shaman envoking consciousness to act upon matter; it is not done by them but through them.
I believe all consciousness is intertwined n stems from a singular mass consciousness that we become apart of.
Becoming a part of God, we are all lil bits of divinity.
Heaven n Hell arent places, but states of being.
Without a body you cant be in a physical place.
I would imagine Hell being your permanent nightmare or just existing in a void feeling nothing but a soupy mess of every negative emotion.
Heaven would be the very opposite.
Treat your life n others in a healing manner, rise back to the cosmic bubble n either wait to remanifest or eternally exist in this realm which really cant be described by words.
But the same could be said for Hell.
Treat your life n others in a harmful manner, you can go fuck yourself.
Fuckin manifesto right there.

Haha are you on something? Excuse the question but your posts seem to have at least a touch of drug-induced rambling. You say that religion isn't just stories passed down but rules and guidelines to help people to live a good life, but I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. Obviously there's more to religion than just the stories, but I think that comprises a huge part of most of the major religions, and it is through these stories that the rules and guidelines are passed down. Also, it's pretty debateable whether or not religion always helps one to live a good life - even the Bible still has instructions on how to treat slaves and how to sell your daughter, which most people would think is incongruent with a good life. I find it difficult to subscribe to your world view - if all of the so-called "shamans" of Africa and South America were legitmate surely their powers would have been documented and received huge attention by now.

If you haven't guessed yet, I'm an atheist.

 

[A Blind Guy]

Haha are you on something? Excuse the question but your posts seem to have at least a touch of drug-induced rambling. You say that religion isn't just stories passed down but rules and guidelines to help people to live a good life, but I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. Obviously there's more to religion than just the stories, but I think that comprises a huge part of most of the major religions, and it is through these stories that the rules and guidelines are passed down. Also, it's pretty debateable whether or not religion always helps one to live a good life - even the Bible still has instructions on how to treat slaves and how to sell your daughter, which most people would think is incongruent with a good life. I find it difficult to subscribe to your world view - if all of the so-called "shamans" of Africa and South America were legitmate surely their powers would have been documented and received huge attention by now.

If you haven't guessed yet, I'm an atheist.

Yeah basically this.

 

[Bardeaux]

No, cuz religion is more than stories passed dwn through the millennia.
They are meanings n guidelines that helps you live a good life; well, for sane ppl at least.

Yeah, but so are fables and certain tall-tales.

Think about Aesop. He wrote sensational, obviously fictional stories with a moral message which have been passed down since ancient Greece. He wasn't believed to be the son of god, just a story teller and the stories are remembered as such.

 

[sarcophagus.heels]

^^ Haha, I've tried a similar thing. It never goes far. I was on this Christian chat room, and I wasn't being rude or anything, I genuinely just wanted to hear how the very religious rationalized their beliefs. But I was banned from the chat room in under 15 minutes with no warning given to me whatsoever. They have no tolerance for that kind of thing. It's sad, really, because it speaks of such a closed system of knowledge - no outside opinions are even allowed in conversation.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

There are religions that aren't based around god/gods. I think athiesm is a rebellion created by the dogmatic Western religions, and unfortunately, many people stop their spiritual awakening at the point which they realize that the Jewish-Christian-Muslim belief system isn't for them, settling on the idea that they are atheists. I think some of their spirituality could be preserved if they shifted to something less dogmatic like [insert religion] Deism or an Eastern Philosophy. I firmly believe people need some sort of spirituality in their lives as a form of guidance.

This.

I dislike how the term "atheist" has been conflated in the Anglophone world with "[ontological] naturalist". I dislike how there is no middle ground, in most discourses, between negating the God of the Abrahamic faiths, and negating all things supernatural. To put it another way, I dislike how if one self-identifies as "atheist", one loses all credibility in "atheist" circles as soon as one admits to being open to the existence of other forces and things unseen, apart from gods.

Although I don't subscribe to it, I actually support the establishment of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brights_movement. "Ontological naturalism" is mouthful, and people who hold this belief need some other name, so that the word "atheist" can be reclaimed and re-broadened to rightly include people such as Buddhists and Jains.

I disagree that atheism is a religion. I also disagree that atheism is not a religion. I think atheism is one tenet that is common to many diverse religious or metaphysical worldviews, which otherwise have little in common. It's very hard to unite and form a unified front for advocacy when you're defined by something you're not, rather than by something you are. This is why atheists really do need to become Brights if they're to unite and advocate. Naturalism is a full-fledged worldview, with well-articulated answers to all the major questions of life, on which there is widespread consensus among Naturalists. The same can't be said for atheism, which merely holds that there is no god(s), but says nothing about anything else.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

Haha are you on something? Excuse the question but your posts seem to have at least a touch of drug-induced rambling. You say that religion isn't just stories passed down but rules and guidelines to help people to live a good life, but I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. Obviously there's more to religion than just the stories, but I think that comprises a huge part of most of the major religions, and it is through these stories that the rules and guidelines are passed down. Also, it's pretty debateable whether or not religion always helps one to live a good life - even the Bible still has instructions on how to treat slaves and how to sell your daughter, which most people would think is incongruent with a good life. I find it difficult to subscribe to your world view - if all of the so-called "shamans" of Africa and South America were legitmate surely their powers would have been documented and received huge attention by now.

If you haven't guessed yet, I'm an atheist.

Smart guy here is right on the money.
Haha yeah I was baked as shit.
We can agree that the two arent mutually exclusive; My drug-crazed mind missed cleaning up that.
What i was getting at is that our concentration on religion, our focus, isnt on the stories but what's behind em.
Such thngs have been documented, but what attention do you get when your shouting to an empty house, or a house that passes it off before giving it a chance.

If you havent guessed yet, I'm a Baptist Minister in Nrthern Alabama.
No I'm not.
I'm just some guy sitting in California.

 

[HeWhoHowls]

Yeah, but so are fables and certain tall-tales.

Think about Aesop. He wrote sensational, obviously fictional stories with a moral message which have been passed down since ancient Greece. He wasn't believed to be the son of god, just a story teller and the stories are remembered as such.

Yeah, there really is know two-ways about it, religous txt's n fictional fables compare easily together.
Im jus having a real bitch of a time explaining this x-factor that sets religous txt apart from all other.
I sense the information in my brain transforming into somethng I can feel rather than analyze; a phenomena I get from reading somethng as profound to my own existence as what is talked about here (not just the Bible). This doesnt happen when I'm reading any ol story or watching any ol movie.
Certainly somethng you cant put into words, you gotta feel it.

 

[freemind]

I find it difficult to subscribe to your world view - if all of the so-called "shamans" of Africa and South America were legitmate surely their powers would have been documented and received huge attention by now.

I agree, but as far as I know, the shamans were not and are not giving psychotropic drugs to sick people but taking psychedelics and finding the cure with a expanded mind, based on their knowledge on plants.

About atheism, naturalism and spirituality, atheists almost don't accept extra-material worlds because the lack of evidence. I'm atheist and I'm working on astral projection, to see with my own eyes and because I am, or at least, want to be a complete psychonaut and I see astral projection as a form of exploring your mind, anyway. Spirituality, I think, is not about worshiping gods; is about you, what will make you happy, healthier and stronger. So I can say I'm atheist but a spiritual human being too.

 

[Nagelfar]

wouldnt calling atheism a religion be the same as calling anarchy a type of government?

There's anarcho-syndicalism, anarcho-privatism, etc; all methods of 'government'. "Anarchism" is not 'no rules' but 'no rulers' from the Greek "-archon" meaning a ruler, not "-nomy" laws or "-kracy" derived power.

A 'disbelief' is a belief. Doesn't mean it is organized however. But, what 'organized' religion holds two adherents of the exact similar view as for what orchestrates the principle of organization between them?

 

[ahint]

I won't be answering the question but just where this thread is going...

I know my theism isn't logical. :D (I don't belong to any particular religion even though I go to church, but I believe in God.)
I was an atheist for most of my life, so I pretty much know all the logical arguments out there and agree with them on a logical level, but not on an emotional level. I know that sounds like a contradiction...
But IMO God is personal and beyond human understanding but I believe He is there, and that He can speak to me through emotions and music (not in the crazy hearing-voices way, but in that I know the right thing to do and how to have a relationship with Him). In believing in Him I stopped self injuring, my depression was greatly relieved, I can talk to others, and I no longer want to take my own life.
Honestly - I don't care if it isn't logical anymore. I wouldn't take away that feeling for the world.