-
PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe |
What are some synthetic cannabinoids particularly good for mellowing effects ?
- Thread starter blizzi
- Start date
monkeyemergency
Bluelighter
Jwh's just arent the same as pot. They work, for sure, and im sure some people might like it more. But no blend Jwh's will resemble weed in effects cause it isnt weed.
Could you be more specific about what you mean by mellowing? Because really quite a lot of / the majority of a long list of synthetic cannabinoids is more or less 'mellowing' or calming/relaxing/anxiolytic. Other categories of effects would be analgesia (painkilling), psychedelia (tripping effects), sedation and some may have antidepressant effects. Anxiolysis i.e. relief from anxiety, calming effects are of course closely paired with sedation but they do not necessarily have to coincide.
More background
For different cannabinoids there are binding affinities listed. This is formulated by the equilibrium dissociation constant Ki, the value means the concentration necessary to occupy half of the receptors and remain in equilibrium.
What you can memorize from this is simply that a low Ki value means high binding effectivity (so to speak), so high potency. This typically means that lower doses are required.
Though not one but two Ki values are mentioned, one for the CB1 receptor (cannabinoid receptor #1) and the other for the CB2 receptor (cannabinoid receptor #2).
The reason I am telling you all of this is because these two types of receptor are associated with somewhat different effects. So it tells you something about the effects when you compare the two Ki values.
CB1 is associated with anxiety and anxiolysis, psychedelia and sedation.
CB2 is less well understood but is associated with analgesia (pain killing effect), reducing inflammation and even anti-cancer effects (though I don't think all tumors but only certain types), and (suspected?) anti-Alzheimers effects to name a few.
CB1 and anxiety levels is a tricky subject. I think it works somewhat like this: moderate CB1 activity from a cannabinoid can reduce anxiety and could thus be called mellowing, but high CB1 activity can have the opposite effect and increase anxiety even up to the point of panic and feelings of terror. This is what often happens with cannabis overdoses or synthetic cannabinoid overdoses. There is more risk of this happening if the cannabinoid has very high affinity for CB1 (so quite a low Ki value) and/or is what is called a FULL agonist for CB1 rather than a partial agonist. These same cannabinoids that have more risk of causing anxiety rather than reducing it, are also typically more psychedelic. But I'd say that full agonists are better avoided. It seems they can have a far more profound and potentially disrupting effect than partial agonists.
Short comparison list with comments on properties
Some extra thoughts on issues I think you ought to be aware of:
- Although pain-killing effects can be a nice bonus, cannabinoids with relatively high affinity (/selectivity) for CB2 might be best avoided if possible. The full extent of effects is not yet clear at this time and it might actually have potential to produce anxiety though this is a rumor I picked up.
- You were asking for a JWH in the thread title but I will change this to synthetic cannabinoid since there are others besides the JWH series. Such as compounds that start with HU- or WIN- or CP-.
- Another thing is that if at all possible I would recommend against naphthoyl cannabinoids, they are the ones that have a double ring on the top right side of the drawn molecule. Check the molecular structure of JWH-018 for example, it has a naphthoyl group "on the right". There are some health concerns about them because of the way they can be metabolized (broken down in the body).
- From a short list of common JWH cannabinoids I gave, JWH-081 seems to be the one that has emphasis on effects that would be described by 'mellowing', I suppose. Unfortunately it does have a (methoxy)naphthoyl group so it is not ideal.
- The last thing worth noting is that people seeking synthetics that substitute for an mimick regular cannabis or THC the best... they often say that to achieve this two or more JWH-like compounds can be mixed and taken together. The interaction between them could be the reason for producing more subjectively rich and complete cannabis-like effect. Or perhaps what matters most is that the effects these compounds emphasize complement each other and together they might add up to a more all-round effect. I heard something positive about JWH-250 together with another one, not quite sure which one...
A while ago I extracted cannabis to make hash oil, and isomerized that to make the different cannabinoids in it all alike, that is: the goal was to get them into delta-9 THC rotation. Effects from this were very strong - too strong I'd say, but there also was something else: the effect seemed more one-dimensional, less complex and less rich. Which is not really that surprising since what I did was make it more similar to pure THC. I am saying this because in retrospect it reminds me of a synthetic cannabinoid: they too can be excessively potent (like JWH-018), and more simple making it more boring in a way.
A disclaimer is appropriate: we do not allow 'what should I take' threads. It seemed like the above information can be of good use to you, it is best if you have a better understanding of these matters yourself to make a good educated decision yourself. I wanted to shine a light on the different effects a few common JWH's have, not suggest to you what you should do - what you should choose. So I suggest that instead of just picking a JWH someone mentions briefly in this thread... you continue further with your own 'homework' or research on the matter. In time I'm sure you will find a cannabinoid that seems very suited for you, after some sophisticated refinement of pro's and cons
Also, welcome to BL & PD
lol
edit:
While JWH-122 can apparently feel more cannabis-like than a lot of other synthetic cannabinoids it is closely related to JWH-018 and as such in all likelihood is a full agonist. Another issue is that in addition to being excessively potent like JWH-018 it can also be very stoning. Meaning sedation (and possible couch-lock) which I think is not the same as anxiolysis / relaxation. I don't know if you guys would call feeling like a ton of bricks 'mellowing'.
Yes JWH-081 is also quite closely related to JWH-018 chemically but it does not seem like it is ridiculously heavy like other ones in the family. That fact that a number of people say it can be very relaxing and non-threatening (though of course you can probably overdose on just about all of these if you are truly reckless) makes me doubt that JWH-081 is like a full agonist. It does not seem to be mentioned anywhere whether it is a full agonist or partial agonist.
And an important announcement for all posters: do not just yell the name of a particular compound without extra info - we want to avoid talking like we try to suggest what the OP should do. So please instead of a recommendation share some information that is attempted to be objective, that leaves the OP to think about this a bit and decide autonomously. Posts in violation will be removed - we are walking a fine line with the rules as it is
More background
For different cannabinoids there are binding affinities listed. This is formulated by the equilibrium dissociation constant Ki, the value means the concentration necessary to occupy half of the receptors and remain in equilibrium.
What you can memorize from this is simply that a low Ki value means high binding effectivity (so to speak), so high potency. This typically means that lower doses are required.
Though not one but two Ki values are mentioned, one for the CB1 receptor (cannabinoid receptor #1) and the other for the CB2 receptor (cannabinoid receptor #2).
The reason I am telling you all of this is because these two types of receptor are associated with somewhat different effects. So it tells you something about the effects when you compare the two Ki values.
CB1 is associated with anxiety and anxiolysis, psychedelia and sedation.
CB2 is less well understood but is associated with analgesia (pain killing effect), reducing inflammation and even anti-cancer effects (though I don't think all tumors but only certain types), and (suspected?) anti-Alzheimers effects to name a few.
CB1 and anxiety levels is a tricky subject. I think it works somewhat like this: moderate CB1 activity from a cannabinoid can reduce anxiety and could thus be called mellowing, but high CB1 activity can have the opposite effect and increase anxiety even up to the point of panic and feelings of terror. This is what often happens with cannabis overdoses or synthetic cannabinoid overdoses. There is more risk of this happening if the cannabinoid has very high affinity for CB1 (so quite a low Ki value) and/or is what is called a FULL agonist for CB1 rather than a partial agonist. These same cannabinoids that have more risk of causing anxiety rather than reducing it, are also typically more psychedelic. But I'd say that full agonists are better avoided. It seems they can have a far more profound and potentially disrupting effect than partial agonists.
Short comparison list with comments on properties
- JWH-018 is a perfect example of such a strong cannabinoid I mentioned, it is a full CB1 agonist, is active at relatively low doses, has a good deal of psychedelic potential and has been known to cause the mentioned overdose state, so producing a lot of anxiety or panic.
- JWH-073 is a partial agonist instead of a full agonist, this makes it less volatile than JWH-018. It is said to resemble THC quite well in it's effect profile though slightly stronger.
- JWH-081 is said to be calming but not equally sedating, it also has some pain-killing properties but not terribly strong.
- JWH-133 is selective for the CB2 receptor, I guess it is not qualified to meet your requirements.
- JWH-200 bears similarities to THC but is reported to be markedly pain-killing. I don't see mention of anxiolysis.
- JWH-250 has properties in common with THC, it seems suitable to just 'get high' with a trippy edge. Apparently not sedating.
Some extra thoughts on issues I think you ought to be aware of:
- Although pain-killing effects can be a nice bonus, cannabinoids with relatively high affinity (/selectivity) for CB2 might be best avoided if possible. The full extent of effects is not yet clear at this time and it might actually have potential to produce anxiety though this is a rumor I picked up.
- You were asking for a JWH in the thread title but I will change this to synthetic cannabinoid since there are others besides the JWH series. Such as compounds that start with HU- or WIN- or CP-.
- Another thing is that if at all possible I would recommend against naphthoyl cannabinoids, they are the ones that have a double ring on the top right side of the drawn molecule. Check the molecular structure of JWH-018 for example, it has a naphthoyl group "on the right". There are some health concerns about them because of the way they can be metabolized (broken down in the body).
- From a short list of common JWH cannabinoids I gave, JWH-081 seems to be the one that has emphasis on effects that would be described by 'mellowing', I suppose. Unfortunately it does have a (methoxy)naphthoyl group so it is not ideal.
- The last thing worth noting is that people seeking synthetics that substitute for an mimick regular cannabis or THC the best... they often say that to achieve this two or more JWH-like compounds can be mixed and taken together. The interaction between them could be the reason for producing more subjectively rich and complete cannabis-like effect. Or perhaps what matters most is that the effects these compounds emphasize complement each other and together they might add up to a more all-round effect. I heard something positive about JWH-250 together with another one, not quite sure which one...
A while ago I extracted cannabis to make hash oil, and isomerized that to make the different cannabinoids in it all alike, that is: the goal was to get them into delta-9 THC rotation. Effects from this were very strong - too strong I'd say, but there also was something else: the effect seemed more one-dimensional, less complex and less rich. Which is not really that surprising since what I did was make it more similar to pure THC. I am saying this because in retrospect it reminds me of a synthetic cannabinoid: they too can be excessively potent (like JWH-018), and more simple making it more boring in a way.
A disclaimer is appropriate: we do not allow 'what should I take' threads. It seemed like the above information can be of good use to you, it is best if you have a better understanding of these matters yourself to make a good educated decision yourself. I wanted to shine a light on the different effects a few common JWH's have, not suggest to you what you should do - what you should choose. So I suggest that instead of just picking a JWH someone mentions briefly in this thread... you continue further with your own 'homework' or research on the matter. In time I'm sure you will find a cannabinoid that seems very suited for you, after some sophisticated refinement of pro's and cons
Also, welcome to BL & PD
loledit:
While JWH-122 can apparently feel more cannabis-like than a lot of other synthetic cannabinoids it is closely related to JWH-018 and as such in all likelihood is a full agonist. Another issue is that in addition to being excessively potent like JWH-018 it can also be very stoning. Meaning sedation (and possible couch-lock) which I think is not the same as anxiolysis / relaxation. I don't know if you guys would call feeling like a ton of bricks 'mellowing'.
Yes JWH-081 is also quite closely related to JWH-018 chemically but it does not seem like it is ridiculously heavy like other ones in the family. That fact that a number of people say it can be very relaxing and non-threatening (though of course you can probably overdose on just about all of these if you are truly reckless) makes me doubt that JWH-081 is like a full agonist. It does not seem to be mentioned anywhere whether it is a full agonist or partial agonist.
And an important announcement for all posters: do not just yell the name of a particular compound without extra info - we want to avoid talking like we try to suggest what the OP should do. So please instead of a recommendation share some information that is attempted to be objective, that leaves the OP to think about this a bit and decide autonomously. Posts in violation will be removed - we are walking a fine line with the rules as it is
Last edited:
LogicSoDeveloped
Bluelighter
I have only had JWH-081 in pure form as far as synthetic cannabinoids go. I have tried too many blends to count, however.
81 to me is very mild, from my experience, you can dose relatively high and still be fine. This is not to say just dose high and report back-you should of course start low, use a mg scale, and slowly go up in dose as you feel comfortable. I've used a vaporisation pipe as well as dipping the end of a cigarette in a bag of jwh-081 then shaking the excess off. The latter method is very unscientific and I don't recommend it-the only reason I used it is I have an incredibly high tolerance to cannabinoids in general.
Back to JWH-081 though, I felt like it is perfect to relax me and to put me to sleep if I'm feeling physically tired but maybe say, a bit more mentally active than I'd like to be. It definitely gives more of a body high than anything and mentally, I don't ever really feel panic or agitation. I would say it is one of my favorite synthetic cannabinoids as I don't particularly care for the stimulating ones-they always cause me ridiculous anxiety.
81 to me is very mild, from my experience, you can dose relatively high and still be fine. This is not to say just dose high and report back-you should of course start low, use a mg scale, and slowly go up in dose as you feel comfortable. I've used a vaporisation pipe as well as dipping the end of a cigarette in a bag of jwh-081 then shaking the excess off. The latter method is very unscientific and I don't recommend it-the only reason I used it is I have an incredibly high tolerance to cannabinoids in general.
Back to JWH-081 though, I felt like it is perfect to relax me and to put me to sleep if I'm feeling physically tired but maybe say, a bit more mentally active than I'd like to be. It definitely gives more of a body high than anything and mentally, I don't ever really feel panic or agitation. I would say it is one of my favorite synthetic cannabinoids as I don't particularly care for the stimulating ones-they always cause me ridiculous anxiety.
ImJustAnotherGuy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Messages
- 105
Ive tried whatever one they stuck in Zohai RX blend and I had pure jwh-018 powder. Niether one was like pot. At a very small dose it was nice, but short acting. A few too many times I took too much, a horrible feeling. Felt like my heart was beating off rhythm and was going to explode, not to mention the psychedelic effects it gave. I was near tripping. Whatever one you try just smoke a little your first time to see how it works with you