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What annoys me about "blowing up" etc

Everyone should roll how they want to roll.

I love good lightshows. They fuck me up, and I like that. They put my brain on such a spinning whirlpool of sensory overload that I can't think about anything else and it's pure euphoria.

I'm also an intelligent person though, and I'm not one of those drugged up people in the corner not moving, (although I have no problem with that).

There is nothing majorly hurting the 'rave scene' to the point where it won't exist anymore. Underground will never die. Ever.

I use E for every aspect listed in this thread, the positives and [what some of us are calling] the negatives. I'd rather concentrate on making my own experience better instead of looking down on other peoples.

yaaaa know :D
 
"I'd rather concentrate on making my own experience better instead of looking down on other peoples."

Believe me, (coming from a selfish person), I know exactly what you're talking about..Whilst under MDMA at an event, the last thing on my mind is the noodles sprawled out in a corner..I party for my own reasons, and don't concern myself at an event with people who party for different reasons than me (I'm there to enjoy myself, not mingle with those I don't respect/like)...It's just that these folks affect us negatively as a whole, and many of us don't appreciate their overuse and presence at shows via what those images bring to the public (especially when they're young, which in 90% of cases they tend to be)...When they keep attending and acting out the same way over and over, it tends to irritate authoritity that they seemingly can do nothing about it...Hence, alternate other plans come into motion to stop them, even if it means stopping things for everyone else..

"There is nothing majorly hurting the 'rave scene' to the point where it won't exist anymore. "

I didn't say it wouldn't exist, I just said events are shut down, venues are lost, and the perception of us just goes down a little futher...

"Why would I want to go to a party sober?"

If you can't enjoy a party sober, you must not like it that much... You obviously like the drugs, why don't you spend more money on them and do them at home instead of spending money going out?...You wouldn't have to hear all that annoying background music while you and your friends talk and rub each other...
8)
 
David said:
Sometimes, I hate this elitest attitude some people have. I would if throwing an event would kick out the uber messed up kids in the corner out. It's just bad business to have puke covered kids in the corner. When you kick then out, give them a little card in their pocket telling them to come back when they grow up a little, and don't overdo it... Makes them think a little about next time.
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why dont you add, i thought he was too fucked up to be in my club so i threw him out on the street to drive himself home. you really want that on your conscience if he kills himself trying to get home? or if someone robs him cause he is too fucked to do anything about it? THAT is why promoters ont do it and thats why you shold not promote any parties.
 
Orpheus420, you clearly don't understand what I mean when I say, "Why would I want to go to a party sober?"


I can enjoy a party sober. I have enjoyed parties sober. But when I limit myself to only rolling at parties, and I limit myself to one party a month, why would I want to not make it the best experience possible? I don't have to roll at a party, and I will go them knowing that I won't roll. But why not roll if I can?
 
this is such an interesting thread. i'm definately with orpheus420 though on this. my take on what he is saying, correct me if i'm wrong, there is no place in this scene for those that are only in it for the high. i don't think there is anything wrong with using drugs to enhance your experience, but if you're only going to get as messed up as you can, you're missing the experience. people that are only in it for the drugs do not contribute anything to the scene except hardships for the rest of us. after you've had your thrills and don't like it anymore, all we're left with is bad press and a bad rep. you make it harder for us to have a place to go to hear our music and dance. it's frustrating for those of us who who truly love this scene and everything it stands for. i forget who mentioned it, but i think alot of it has to do with underage kids at events taking drugs. i firmly believe in not letting underage children into events. they use it as an escape place to use drugs since they have no other place to go. if that's not the case, the clubs and parties will still be there when you turn 18. i'm defintely all for "to each his own" but i'm defintely huge on respect too. respect yourself and what you believe in, but have respect for others and what they believe in.
 
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Street Knowledge said:
why dont you add, i thought he was too fucked up to be in my club so i threw him out on the street to drive himself home. you really want that on your conscience if he kills himself trying to get home? or if someone robs him cause he is too fucked to do anything about it? THAT is why promoters ont do it and thats why you shold not promote any parties.
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Maybe you missed my point. I aim at making them realize they are responsible for their own actions. If they can't even stand up with-out puking on themselves I really don't think they'll even make it to their car. Some guy that dis-respected other peoples fun, and ruin it for everyone that can handle it (because they are older, and wiser, or just don't overdo it that stupidly.) I refused to take reponsibility for someone else's actions. I might help them if they truelly need medical help, but seriously I get tired of having to play babysitter. I can stay at home, and do that. People as a whole need to learn to take responsibility for their actions, and realize that not everyone is going to treat them like they are these "special" little people. That's reality, don't let the brick hit you too hard.

Chicago got shut-down because of "ONE" self-centered girl went out to get f'ed-up, and was stupid enough to OD. Not my fault. I didn't sell her bunk ish, but I have to suffer because she wasn't smart enough to get her ish tested, or even to read up on it. I was at that event, Dancesafe was there. What's so hard about walking over to the booth to get it tested?8)
 
In game theory there is a concept called a "zero sum game", where for something to be gained, something else must be given up. In my opinion the high (good feelings) associtated with MDMA is perfectly offset by the low (the following week) and the total amount of pleasure is 0. I do believe there are some consequences beyond the low which in addition to the cost ($20) make it illogical to take MDMA for the pleasure alone. Thus the only reason one can justify using is if they find some way to get more out of the MDMA experience than just pleasure. I believe that the additional value which makes it justifyable is derived from the amazing enhancements to human communication. I think the way maximize the communication benefits is to find the ideal dosage where the effects on communication have fully manifested themselves, while the additional "floored" effects have not yet begun to manifest themselves or are at least minimized. For myself, this dosage is 40-50mg or 25mg + 100mcg LSD.

I always make a conscious effort to stay alert and able to communicate with those around me, and to make sure that I surround myself with people who are willing and able to communicate about topics which interest me. Granted, I do have a different perspective on human communication because I am an intellectual, I believe that I should spend every minute of my life learning about something. I am constantly trying to maximize my intake of knowledge as I believe this to be the path which provides me the most happiness in the long term.

I have been known to explain to those sitting in the corner too fucked up to move constantly huffing vicks or spinning around in circles or doing the same blow-up trick for an hour or more, that they are standing out from the crowd and that they are making this party fit all of the negative stereotypes of drug-abuse to the off-duty police officer working security. I explain to them that if they just want to be so high they don't have to worry about anything they might as well be shooting heroin in that corner, but since they are on MDMA they might as well take advantage of the magic which makes it so special, its communication facilitation abilities. I usually get a dirty look like I'm some sort of anti-drug freak (and if you read my posts, I'm certainly not), but every 10 times or so somebody understands, they stand up and say "you know, you're right, I could be having the night of my life", and they start moving around and doing stuff.

If I recall the distant past how I learned this lesson, it was because I was sitting in a speaker too fucked up to move on my 2nd roll and then I started thinking about what kind of memories I was going to have of the party. I had the revelation that the only thing I would remember was an incredibly vague feeling (yes, its almost impossible to remember what a roll actually feels like) and nothing else. As of that day I vowed to never stay in the same place at a party for more than 30 minutes, and it has definately made my experiences more interesting. I still have a crazy deja-vu like experience whenever I hear certain songs which were played that night (120 decibles * 8 hours of rolling my ass off in a speaker caused some weird memory formations).

I agree with what sourlemone says about the probability that someone who is stuck in an introverted rut of getting high just to get high is probably no longer enjoying it after the first time. My advice I give every tweaker I meet definately applies here: <b>"Remember, there is a HUGE difference between HAPPINESS and FUN"</b>... No matter how much fun you might be having while you smoke that crystal or while you drool on yourself in a corner, are you really happy? What can bring you happiness? How can you make yourself truly happy long term? I definately believe that MDMA can help a person find true happiness, however this is extremely unlikely when used in excess... It pains me to hear a burnt-up E-tarded MDMA abuser talk shit on the drug they used to love, because their own selfish and foolish actions have ruined its benefits for them, they assume that it could not possibly have any benefits for others. My biggest pet peeve is when drug users become anti-drug or anti-legalization because they believe that everybody is as foolish as them.
 
David said:
Maybe you missed my point. I aim at making them realize they are responsible for their own actions. If they can't even stand up with-out puking on themselves I really don't think they'll even make it to their car. Some guy that dis-respected other peoples fun, and ruin it for everyone that can handle it (because they are older, and wiser, or just don't overdo it that stupidly.) I refused to take reponsibility for someone else's actions. I might help them if they truelly need medical help, but seriously I get tired of having to play babysitter. I can stay at home, and do that. People as a whole need to learn to take responsibility for their actions, and realize that not everyone is going to treat them like they are these "special" little people. That's reality, don't let the brick hit you too hard.

Chicago got shut-down because of "ONE" self-centered girl went out to get f'ed-up, and was stupid enough to OD. Not my fault. I didn't sell her bunk ish, but I have to suffer because she wasn't smart enough to get her ish tested, or even to read up on it. I was at that event, Dancesafe was there. What's so hard about walking over to the booth to get it tested?8)
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People should take responibility for they're own actions. You are absolutely correct. And I don't think Chicago got shut down because one one girl ODed in the city. I'm not from Chicago, but I'd have to say that it was the leaders of the city, who the city elected that shut down the scene. One girl ODing is merely a catalyst for a reaction that had been brewing. And testing pills is always a good idea, it is just not practical for everyone. Not, if DanceSafe is at the party, I mean now that We don't have those Harm Reduction programs in the works for Us.

But, if people are going out, and getting so fucked they can't move, maybe they deserve to spend the night in the hospital/jail. At least make sure you have a friend to take care of you before downing seven pills at once. It's irresponsible, and dangerous.
 
A very interesting thread, I`m somewhat undecided. On one hand, why shouldn`t people be able to use drugs in any way they want. just because they are afraid of the responses from some old men in the city council. After some time of drug use it is becoming increasingly annoying to not having right to do with my own body as I self see best, and not what others want me to do with it.

But on the other hand is it so hard to just adopt to these changes? Since it really would make things easier on the rave scene.

My principle is that people should do as they please if they are just trying to be nice and not harming anyone else, the question is if I would be willing to give up my principle to the better of the rave scene, a sort of compromise. I don`t know 8(
 
Good description from AlphaNumeric earlier IMO, nothing much to add to that.

In the UK there are not too many tricks used to make people come up more (from what I've seen). Normally the attitude is take another pill if you want to come up more, and get on with having fun.

On my occasional visits to the US I have been "forced" to partake in such tricks LOL and found they did nothing much for me. Bit of a waste of time IMHO because I'd rather be talking crap to someone or dancing with them, than sniffing vics and watching them flail some glowsticks at me.

There are people who take lots of drugs everywhere in the world, taking so many drugs that you spend the night on the floor is a seperate issue to the tricks stuff. If someone wants to do that then fine by me, I have nothing against that, their choice.
 
I agree with what sourlemone says about the probability that someone who is stuck in an introverted rut of getting high just to get high is probably no longer enjoying it after the first time. My advice I give every tweaker I meet definately applies here: <b>"Remember, there is a HUGE difference between HAPPINESS and FUN"</b>... No matter how much fun you might be having while you smoke that crystal or while you drool on yourself in a corner, are you really happy? What can bring you happiness? How can you make yourself truly happy long term? I definately believe that MDMA can help a person find true happiness, however this is extremely unlikely when used in excess... It pains me to hear a burnt-up E-tarded MDMA abuser talk shit on the drug they used to love, because their own selfish and foolish actions have ruined its benefits for them, they assume that it could not possibly have any benefits for others. My biggest pet peeve is when drug users become anti-drug or anti-legalization because they believe that everybody is as foolish as them.
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Like yourself, Who mE, I am an intellectual and a seeker. I am also a fairly utilitarian person. When I use any drug I always ask myself, "What can this drug offer me? How can it improve my life and make me a better person, having used it?" I don't think I'd ever try a drug for which, based on my research, the net losses always outweighed the net gains.

Like yourself, I accept MDMA because I feel there are many positive things one can take away from the experience, especially in the way of breaking down communication barriers and letting our true feelings be known. The times I've had lousy rolls are when I expected all the experience to be right there in the pill. But when I treat the pill as simply a catalyst for real and lasting bonding or eye-opening experience, it never does me wrong.

If I have no pressing need to bond with anyone, or if I'm feeling escapist and just want to disappear into some blissful psychedelic hole (i.e. just get fucked up and forget about it all), I'll go to a musical event with a pot brownie in my belly instead of a pill. It enhances and intensifies the experience just fine, and doesn't have a tenth of the negative side effects.

I've had a 10 day long crabby comedown from every pill I've ever done, so I honestly think e's side effects are so unpleasant that it BETTER have some real and lasting good to offer, or it just ain't worth taking! :p

Your comments about happiness vs. fun sound a lot like the old "Give a man a fish..." saying. Happiness is fleeting. It's just a temporary brain state. But fun is an investment. It takes work to create real fun, even if drugs are involved. But if you're willing to put in the effort, you'll have memories that can make you smile on a rainy day years from now. And friends you can reminisce with.
 
I do take 5htp. About 200mg a day every day for a week after rolling. It alleviates the comedown, but I am still on the whole far less active, social, upbeat, or optimistic the week following a pill, postloading or none.

I am a very sensitive person, in every sense of the word. I am sensitive to even small changes in my body and brain chemistry. The good thing about this is that I can never keep up a self-destructive habit too long before my body screeches at me to stop, and so I stay pretty healthy. The downside is I'm a wuss. :/
 
^^^ Yes indeedy. 2000mg Vitamin C both pre and post. 1000mg Vitamin C every day for a week. A B-Complex every morning. Magnesium and Calcium too. 1200mg lecithin every day. Pot all day following a roll, and once a day besides. Plenty of protein in my diet, and lots of fruit juice.

I still manage to feel sub-par.

As I said, I have a body that can't take very much abuse, and that's both a blessing and a curse at the same time.

My neuroscience is shaky, but wouldn't this indicate that I experience more severe receptor downregulation than most people? I have a feeling, based on all this, that if I were to ever binge on e, I would be one of those ones who lost the magic fast and permanently.
 
The vitamin mixture seems pretty good... lecithin is good too...

I'd be more concerned about such chronic pot use... all day the day after and ever day? That's bound to induce some sort of significant neurochemical change. Have you tried not using the pot?

Also: have you tried either l-Tyrosine or l-Phenylalanine?

In any case I'm now taking this thread off topic, so I'm going to stop. PM me if you'd like this split into a separate thread.
 
Since vitamin c is very water soluble i'd consider adding a more fat soluble antioxidant to your pre and postload regime, like vitamin E or ALA.

To return to topic. People can do whatever they like on mdma, but it generally tends to lead me inward, i can't help feeling that some people who use roll tricks do it to distract themselves from stuff they don't want to deal with.
 
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^^^ I disagree. In defense of blower-uppers, one of which I am not, I think most are just trying to milk every possible drop of pleasure from the drug they've taken. I say if you're going to do something fun that takes a toll on your health and can't be done too often, why not max it out?

That said, although roll tricks do feel funky and seem to increase the pleasure of the drug, I think blower-uppers are ultimately barking up the wrong tree. The way to maximize the drug's potential is to insert it into real-life situations that already have a warm glow to them without the drug, especially parties to celebrate an achievement, and bonding nights with old friends. I think it might also be a great thing to have at certain kinds of meetings, too, especially meetings held for the purpose of dispute negotiation or creative brainstorming (e.g. for an ad campaign).

Once again, I'm very utilitarian. E is a tool. Like any tool, it can make certain tasks a lot easier. But also like any tool, its use is limited. Needle nose pliers are a lifesaver, and have helped me with many a project. But I'd never use them to change a bike tire. That's not what they're designed for. Would they get the job done? In a pinch, sure. But make a habit of using them for this puspose, and I'm likely to end up very jaded.
 
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