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Well, 2C-I was not that cool.

what makes a psychedelic psychedelic is the "hardware" it is running on...
 
Don't use indoles/tryptamines like psilocin and LSD as benchmarks by which to compare all other psychedelic drugs.

Just because something isn't as mentally straining or is more euphoric than LSD / shrooms says nothing about its psychedelic nature. I've personally had difficult and mentally straining 2C-I trips.

I think it could be fair to say that LSD is *more* psychedelic than 2C-I... at least I certainly feel that way. But if you look at the primary effects of 2C-I, which are visual effects, getting you high, and changing the way you think (even if it's not an extreme change) these are clearly the effects of psychedelic drugs.

Nobody can say mescaline is not psychedelic, and I've had a couple 2C-I trips that were similar to mescaline in many ways.
 
The notion that a chemical is not psychedelic if it is euphoric, not pushy, and fun to dance on is quite silly. Remember...set, setting, and expectations all influence the outcome of a trip.

For me, 2C-I proved to be a warm and very useful psychedelic. If not for the headaches it seemed to produce most of the times I tried it, I'd have used 2C-I more often. I will never use 2C-I again because of the headaches, but it will always be close to my heart.

Here is my favorite 2C-I report. I was the lucky person blessed with the experience. Quite a remarkable experience from a "non-psychedelic," psychedelic.


December 14, 2001

I’ve been in a bit of a rut lately, feeling rather listless and lost. I wouldn’t call it depression, but I am not exactly happy these days. Work and school just feels so routine now, and neither seems to be providing me with any sense of fulfillment or satisfaction. Though I am only one semester away from graduation, the end seems no where near in sight and school doesn’t seem like anything more than something I have to do. I’m thinking a solo trip may be just what I need to help me get past this negative space I am in. 2C-I seemed quite introspective the last time, and I have been wanting to try it out again. So 2C-I it is. I’ve fasted all day, except for breakfast, and feel very positive about my decision to trip tonight.


12:01 AM

I swallow 25 mg of 2C-I dissolved in some orange juice. I could not taste a thing.


12:26

The material has made itself known very quickly this time. Last time (with 26 mg), I did not really feel much at all for over an hour. There is some stimulation and already some mild color enhancement. I feel both warm and cold simultaneously. Definitely a +1. I think a nice hot shower is in order.


12:50

Wow, 2C-I seems so different than the last time. Tonight the effects are not so subtle. Tasks such as brushing my teeth and turning on the computer seem harder than should be. The last time, this material was seemingly lighter on my psyche. In other words, I was very clear-headed and lucid. This time however, the mental effects remind me of something from the indole world, vaguely LSD-like in some aspects. A strong +2 ½.


1:02

I’ve logged in at my favorite IRC chatroom. I don’t intend to spend the trip on the computer, but for now I feel compelled to chat with others. My body is feeling a little heavy this time. On my last 2C-I voyage, I had very little body load. Now I am quite stimulated and there is even some mild jaw tension. There is also some nausea, though none too severe at this point. Still, all in all this is a very easy compound to tolerate. LSD is much more of a somatic burden than this stuff. Nearly a full +3 I’d say.


1:14

Nausea is now pretty bad. Some marijuana is in order. Still typing away at on-line friends. I can’t seem to draw myself away from the computer.


1:21

Wow, puked up all of the orange juice, and a bunch of stomach acid. The last time I took 2C-I, I had absolutely no nausea. It is as if I am on a completely different drug this time. Odd to say the least. Still climbing towards a peak, but definitely a +3 now.


1:25

All right, I will not waste a trip sitting on the computer in an IRC chatroom. Off to the couch to listen to music and travel hyperspace.


1:52

Can’t type now, but I simply must document that a most incredible event has happened. More later. Perhaps one of the most dramatic and important experiences of my life. I am at a loss for words. Life has a lot more meaning now, I’ll say that. I’m not climbing anymore, but the effects are definitely still peaking. Back to tripping.


2:17

Things seem to be declining a bit. I’m going to go on a nice long walk and contemplate what just happened. I am glowing inside. Without getting into what happened (I want to write about it when I am no longer tripping), let’s just say I have never felt such a sense of purpose in living. The universe has truly blessed me tonight and I will return the favor.


3:00

I feel like my purpose in tripping tonight has been accomplished. I’ve logged back into IRC, and I am going to chat as I prepare myself some ketamine. Existence is so beautiful.


3:06

Enjoying some nice pot as I prepare myself for a ketamine experience. I am still tripping pretty hard, though the effects are definitely on the decline. All around me, things are quite sparkly and alive. 2C-I visuals are not what I consider overwhelming, but tonight they sure are impressive. Still not to the degree of 2C-T-7, but who cares! No matter how many times I trip, playing with tracers never gets old. This trip has been a very meaningful event for me, I can not stress this enough. Talk about life changing! It feels as though this night was planed since the day I was born. As though all previous events of my existence simply led up to this night.


3:15

I’ve just taken 100 mg of ketamine.


3:21

The winds are getting strong. Ketamine taking hold strongly already.


4:56

All right, I am back to this world, as best I know and remember it. I’ve just had a true breakdown of reality. They are never going to believe this back home. I can’t type anymore. I’ll finish this tomorrow.


---------------------------------------------


Mid July, 2002

Well, tomorrow has turned into seven months. School and work can do that to one’s schedule. Life is very different now since that trip. I have graduated from college with a bachelor’s degree in psychology and sociology. I have moved from my childhood home in the mid-west to a beautiful town in the foothills of the Colorado Rockies. I am also in a close relationship again with my partner of long ago, whom I spoke about in earlier trip reports, and we plan on spending the rest of our lives together. Anyway, back to the report. I will give the details of the experience as best I can. Unfortunately, time tends to erase some of the fine points.

Around 1-½ hours into the experience, I finally got myself off the computer and laid on my couch. “Rushes”, an incredible ambient music disk Paul McCartney under the pseudonym of The Fireman, was played through a pair of headphones. As I side-note, it is a most highly recommended disk for the entheogenic experience. The trip almost immediately took on a completely new dimension.

Slowly, a glowing warmth began to erupt in my solar plexus, and it gradually began to build in intensity. I am still at a loss to describe it, but I can only state that it was the most intense sense of well being I have ever known. To call it ‘euphoria’ is almost insulting. Euphoria is the warm glow you get with opiates. This was not euphoria, it was universal cosmic bliss. This feeling had meaning. It was not drug-induced happiness. I literally did not know what to do with it all. All joys and pleasures I have ever conceived of paled in comparison to this. I actually sobbed at one point, in sheer ecstasy. For some reason however, I felt almost unworthy of it all. Who was I to be having such a blissful and mystical experience? It was so overwhelming, I wondered if my body might explode. I was touched and graced by understanding, beauty and love that I had never before known. I just couldn’t figure out where this was all coming from, what it all meant, and why I deserved to be experiencing it.

At the height of it all, I had an out-of-body experience where I was one with everything. (Yes, the classic ‘one with the universe trip’) I again felt more love and acceptance than I ever knew existed. I was home. This love was the love of the universe, which was also the love I felt for myself, myself being the universe. I knew it was a most blessed privilege to be there. At the height of the experience, I literally couldn’t see the room. I had no reference to where my body was. I was simply surrounded by a luminous, golden light. The experience was literally as powerful as a 5-MeO-DMT, or even a ketamine, OBE. It was truly an occurrence that I felt gifted and blessed with to actually experience. I mean 25 mg of 2C-I doesn’t normally do that sort of thing. I’m not sure any dose of 2C-I normally does that. I remember asking myself at one point, “What was I supposed to do with this? Where do I go next?”

The next thing I remember, is suddenly being told by the universe to ‘give of myself.’ The message was then made more specific. I am to donate bone marrow one day to save someone’s life! I suddenly knew it was always my destiny to do this, and by doing so I could in the very least give back for the experience of universal bliss I had just been blessed with. All I can say about it is this was not something my mind suddenly decided to do. I had never even previously thought of becoming a living donor. It was a message that was given to me from outside my realm of consciousness. In the universe itself, I read of my destiny.

Soon after I decided to take a nice walk outside, and when I returned I decided that I would finish off the night with some ketamine. I wasn’t looking for anything in particular with this combo, but the explorer in me wanted to see what might happen. I have decided to leave the details from the experience out of this trip-report because what happened is well beyond my ability to describe and wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense to anyone but myself.

Seven months later, my will to donate bone marrow is not diminished. I have since done some research and was happy to find that the donation of bone marrow is really not evasive surgery at all, at least compared to donating a kidney. This is very reassuring because I have a low threshold to pain, and I’ve never had surgery before. I don’t have a date for doing this at this time, but when the stars are right it will occur and I will live with the satisfaction of knowing I have saved someone’s life. It's one of the reasons why I am here.
Click to expand...

I tried 2C-I a few times after this, each time taking 16mg. At that dosage, the visuals were considerably more tame, but the introspection and insight-producing properties were still quite useful.

2C-I is definitely not a pushy or challanging psychedelic, but it was remarkably insightful and rewarding for me.
 
Saying that 2C-I isn't psychedelic because it isn't like a tryptamine (LSD/mushrooms) is like saying that benzodiazepines aren't depressants because they're not like opiates.

I suppose it is possible that different people will have different reactions, but the OP would be the first person I have ever encountered in my research who would find 2C-I's effects to be anything but psychedelic. Obviously, nobody can argue pro or con with regards to someone's subjective experiences, I'm just saying that the vast majority of people who have used 2C-I consider it psychedelic.
 
I should add that peoples' reactions to psychedelics (particularly the 2Cs) can and do vary. Some folks think 2C-B is the greatest synthetic psychedelic since LSD. I find 2C-B amusing, but largely forgettable. There are people who consider DMT the holy grail of psychedelics. I didn't find DMT very useful at all (at least smoked), and much prefer 5-MeO-DMT. I know people who sware by 2C-T-2, but I don't like the bodyload and much prefer 2C-T-7. I can go on, but I am sure I made the point.
 
Oh, of course, I understand that reactions can and do vary, but to say that 2C-I isn't psychedelic because it doesn't feel like LSD or psilocybin is fallacious
 
Some merging with another thread similar to this.

Personally, I thought 2c-i was pretty boring. Well...except for the physical challanges.
 
Psychedelic actually comes from the Greek meaning "to reveal the mind". On that basis, there are compounds that are classed as not being hallucinogens eg cannabis/THC that deserve to be called psychedelic, and there are hallucinogens like atropine that are definitly not psychedelic.

Just because a compound is not mind-revealing in you, does not mean that it is like that for the general population. In that case, it might be as well to specify that you personally don't find it psychedelic, but that a majority of people do.

Using that as a basis, I think you'd have to include 2C-I as a psychedelic for the majority of people who use it (personally, I find it a minor league psychedelic - but some eg MGS, have had epiphanies from using it)
 
But what does that mean "to reveal the mind"? I can go to sleep at night, and then wake up the next day, and it reveals things about my mind. Does that mean sleep is "psychedelic"? Every day experiences reveal things about my mind too. And I've had many people tell me that speed, coke and heroin can be mind revealing. So where does one draw the line between whats mind revealing and what is not?

Its so totally subjective, that whether a drug is "psychedelic" or not is a more matter of consensus than anything else.

Also if it gives you an epiphany, wouldn't that make it "generating god within", i.e. "entheogenic"? "Entheogenic" is not the same as "psychedelic", unless perhaps you believe that "God" and "mind" are the same thing.
 
^^

Epiphany is defined in the OED as "any moment of great or sudden revelation". No god, or mention of god in there. There's a Christian festival of Epiphany, but that's got nothing to do with drugs or revelations.

All drugs give insight to the working of the mind (esp to someone observing the person who has taken the drug), but the main effect of most drugs is not to produce a state where the person questions the nature of reality, or their relationship to it (actually they question their model of reality, constructed from their experiences). Drugs that produce that as one of their primary effects are the ones I generally refer to as psychedelics.

As the world of semantics is rather short on absolutes, that's a good enough description of psychedelics for me.
 
gloggawogga said:
Also if it gives you an epiphany, wouldn't that make it "generating god within", i.e. "entheogenic"? "Entheogenic" is not the same as "psychedelic", unless perhaps you believe that "God" and "mind" are the same thing.
Click to expand...

That is a very good point. Peoples' underlying belief structures make it very difficult to define such things... especially when their beliefs have been seriously molded by psychedelic/entheogenic experiences.

But I think most of us can agree that certain drugs have a higher potential to bring forth a psychedelic/entheogenic experience than others. For example, I think it would be difficult for the majority of people to eat 200ug of LSD and *not* have a psychedelic experience. But 30ug of LSD seems to me like a "smart drug"... is that still psychedelic? Also, I've had psychedelic experiences on MDMA, but I'm sure many people do not consider these experiences psychedelic either because 1) Their threshold of definition is higher, or 2) They get different effects from the drug than I do.

I think if we took a poll... using MDMA, 2C-I, and LSD, and asking, "Which is the most psychedelic?" the answers would be pretty consistent: #1 LSD, #2 2C-I, #3 MDMA.

Therefore I believe, even though it is possible for some people to eat 2C-I and not have a psychedelic experience because perhaps they are resistent to these effects of the drug, that 2C-I can be considered a "medium psychedelic". That is, we all know there are drugs that are more intense (LSD, 2C-E, DMT, etc) and we all know there are drugs that are less intense (MDMA, 2C-C, Methylone, etc), and it is fair to put 2C-I somewhere in the middle.

And your mileage will vary :)
 
Well I disagree with the merge. I think it is cool just not psychedelic. So the to ideas are very different.

I would class it as a hallucagen not psychedelic. Sorry I dont get any crazy horrible thoughts like other psychedelics. My mind is in control and I enjoy that.

The first time I did it I was un impressed and found it boring.

But every time I have done it at a club it has been great.
 
I think if we took a poll... using MDMA, 2C-I, and LSD, and asking, "Which is the most psychedelic?" the answers would be pretty consistent: #1 LSD, #2 2C-I, #3 MDMA.
Click to expand...

Which goes back to what I said: whether a drug is "psychedelic" or not is a more matter of consensus than anything else.

Sorry for the merge, realeasygoing, but we only need one thread like this for 2c-i. Whether its "cool" or not is a matter of consensus too :)
 
I have most certainly had some very powerful psychedelic experiences with 2c-i. It is one of my favorite compounds. How deep does the rabbit hole go? It all depends on the individual. The same dosage can sometimes be very tame and easy to manage, while other times it takes me right over the edge. It was during a 2c-i trip that it really hit me that my 2 year long drinking binge of a 5th of vodka a day was going to kill me, and I quit drinking cold turkey. 2c-i is profoundly more than just an amphetamine for me.

There are many catalysts for a psychedelic experience, and not all of them are drugs.

A friend of mine thought that he was going to die while on 20mg. This was not because he was physically distressed, he simply thought that everything was coming undone and reality would obviously crash at any moment. I had to leave with him during the middle of a concert and baby-sit him in a hotel room for many hours, during which time I reassured him that life was suppose to have sharp edges, that it is all part of the human experience, that there were a lot of people who cared about him. It was a very moving experience for both of us. When he woke up in the morning, he quit smoking. Several weeks later he told me that the experience had lasted a total of 3 days for him, during which time he made some important life decisions that he had been avoiding. The experience had floored him, and this is someone who has tripped on LSD hundreds of times with me 'back in the day.'

hhhhmmmmm...

Looks like a psychedelic.
Feels like a psychedelic.
Tastes like bookocky.

Must be a psychedelic!
 
> Personally, I thought 2c-i was pretty boring. Well...except for
> the physical challanges

Of what challenges do you speak?
 
To me, a psychedelic (mind-manifesting) chemical is any chemical that gives insight to hidden or otherwise overlooked psychospiritual workings.

I like the proposition that, instead of saying some drugs are psychedelics and others are not, that some drugs are more or less psychedelic than others.

I might add another layer to this by sying that some materials are more "complete" psychedelics than others. Some psychedelics, such as DPT and LSD (to me) seem to cover the whole spectrum, while others like 2C-I and Psilocybin seem to cover only certain "areas." That does not make them necessarily "bad" - it depends on what you are looking for when you take a psychedelic. If I was not ready to deal with emotional/anxiety issues at a particular time, but wanted a psychedelic experience nontheless, I would most certainly go for 2C-I or DiPT before I go for LSD.
 
I can sympathize with the lack of mindfuck at lower dosages. Below 35 mg it's really not a psychedelic, but more like MDMA; a nice little substance that makes you feel good and see stuff. It just doesn't seem... signifigant.

But try a 60 mg dose, and it's a whole different beast. There is definitely a massive change in the way you think. Not to mention a euphoria equal to an average roll, and more visuals than any other substance I've tried. Including the most divine aural hallucinations; all the background sounds like fans, flourescent lights, people in the distance, etc. all combined in my head to form the most beautiful music I've ever heard that persisted even after I left the area with the component sounds.
 
> Personally, I thought 2c-i was pretty boring. Well...except for
> the physical challanges

Of what challenges do you speak?
Click to expand...

Cardiac symptoms, i.e. severe chest pain, mainly at moderate to high levels of exertion but not at all while resting. However, uncomfortable "spikes" of nerve energy shooting down my arms and legs while resting. Pretty much couldn't be comfortable with my body no matter what I did.
 
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