So about two weeks ago i tried rolling for the first time at a Pretty Lights concert. Im not sure if it was a bad roll or if rolling truly just isnt for me but i had way to intense of a roll and did not enjoy myself at the concert but had an ok time afterwards chilling all night and smoking. Keep in mind i have smoked for about 5 years, almost everyday for about 1 1/2. Anyway for about a week after i had a horrible comedown, depressed, no appetite, bad memory, cloudy vision and head, i just didnt feel like myself. I also had no desire to smoke at all which was very weird considering how much i use to love to smoke. Well once i did try to smoke it was incredibly different than before, i got super paranoid mainly due to the fact that my head felt super cloudy and had a sort of pressure that was very uncomfortable. And not like a headache like it hurt just super congested feeling and a lot of pressure. That being said smoking has become un enjoyable for me which is something i never thought i would find myself saying and just want to know if anyone else has experienced this.
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Weird head pressure from smoking weed after trying E for the first time
- Thread starter CHILL5392
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Deleted member 137730
Greenlighter
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yes mdma can change the effects of other drugs permanently. i no longer experience weed or opiates the same as before mdma.
It is because you smoked a Sativa dominant strain. Sativas can cause anxiety and head pressure. Ever heard of the strain 'Headband'? It was given that name for the pressure that it creates in your head, feeling a bit like you're wearing a tight headband.
I think I agree a little with both response types so far: Yes, MDMA or E (of any sort) can potentially change how you 'receive' / accept drugs. However that isn't necessarily what is happening to you right now. Was this only on one occasion with only 1 strain? If so, and it was a hybrid that is sativa heavy or a near straight sativa-you might try an indica strain, in moderation, and see if you have a similar experience. If so, enjoy the times you experienced the substance and keep on truckin. Hmm.. would this have to do with a permanentchange in brain chemistry or something on those lines or for a more 'abstract' reason... cuuurious. Luckily this was not my experience post E consumption - I still enjoy everything the same. Could be diffrence of variables regarding the taking of MDMA/E.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
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I'm with Bben on this one.
MDMA, along with other psychedelics (psilosybin, LSD) have been reported to cause permanent changes in the way that cannabis effects people.
I have seen reports on opiates also being modified permanently as well.
Smoking weed during this last year has had different effects.
Many times it was VERY unpleasant with LOTS of pressure - including one SO bad my whole right arm went numb! (possible stroke/TIA).
But, as I have progressed in my recovery, I find that it is no longer so debilitating.
However, it is still pointless sometimes. I feel minor effects only...and still feel cloudy the next day.
So I just don't smoke much at all - but occasionally when I am having a GOOD day, yes it still gets me high.
I have faith that one day, my recovery will progress to the point that I can smoke more often and enjoy it the way I used to.
I do not believe the change is 'permanent' for everyone, but is a factor of the overall recovery they achieve.
I should also mention that tramadol, an opiate I used to take liberally, now is VERY stimulating.
Even in 50mg doses it makes my legs dance a lot...my pulse goes up. Very wirey, little euphoria.
However, I noticed a VERY interesting side-effect...
It substantially increased sexual sensation, which is VERY strange, as this opiate normally deadens the response.
Quite the paradoxical reaction.
But the days that followed were not pleasant - I actually felt like my serotonin levels had dropped significantly.
What used to be a very minor release of serotonin is now large enough to cause major changes in mood/digestion following use.
Hmm...
But I am only at 11 months recovery.
I will be sure to let everyone know if I can one day smoke weed and take tramadol when I want to.
Bben, have you tried smoking or taking opiates with lots of Piracetam on board?
I am curious, because I really think it would make a difference.
MDMA, along with other psychedelics (psilosybin, LSD) have been reported to cause permanent changes in the way that cannabis effects people.
I have seen reports on opiates also being modified permanently as well.
Smoking weed during this last year has had different effects.
Many times it was VERY unpleasant with LOTS of pressure - including one SO bad my whole right arm went numb! (possible stroke/TIA).
But, as I have progressed in my recovery, I find that it is no longer so debilitating.
However, it is still pointless sometimes. I feel minor effects only...and still feel cloudy the next day.
So I just don't smoke much at all - but occasionally when I am having a GOOD day, yes it still gets me high.
I have faith that one day, my recovery will progress to the point that I can smoke more often and enjoy it the way I used to.
I do not believe the change is 'permanent' for everyone, but is a factor of the overall recovery they achieve.
I should also mention that tramadol, an opiate I used to take liberally, now is VERY stimulating.
Even in 50mg doses it makes my legs dance a lot...my pulse goes up. Very wirey, little euphoria.
However, I noticed a VERY interesting side-effect...
It substantially increased sexual sensation, which is VERY strange, as this opiate normally deadens the response.
Quite the paradoxical reaction.
But the days that followed were not pleasant - I actually felt like my serotonin levels had dropped significantly.
What used to be a very minor release of serotonin is now large enough to cause major changes in mood/digestion following use.
Hmm...
But I am only at 11 months recovery.
I will be sure to let everyone know if I can one day smoke weed and take tramadol when I want to.
Bben, have you tried smoking or taking opiates with lots of Piracetam on board?
I am curious, because I really think it would make a difference.
Do you only smoke Sativas? I notice no bodily pressure at all with a pure indica/heavy (70/30+) indica dominant hybrid.
Welcome to the club of shitty weed highs after rolling. I'm surprised this has happened to you after only 1 roll, usually it takes a few more before the weed high becomes kind of uncomfortable. But yea rolling can definitely change your experience with other drugs, ime it hasn't changed other drug experiences but it has to psychedelics. I wouldn't really get head pressure but after having a good amount of MDMA experiences i would notice getting pretty damn anxious when i'd smoke weed. It got better after time, because you learn to accept the changes but it took a lot of sessions to get better. I went through a number of panic attacks as well, but i kind of learned to ignore it. Every once in a while i still get pretty uncomfortable but that's after smoking a lot in one session. My only advice would be to smoke slower and much less than what you are used to. You are not alone though, that's for certain.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
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^ Very good advice.
I learned to take ONE hit and WAIT, at least 10 minutes maybe 20.
Two to three hits was my MAX even on nights when I enjoyed it.
But I always noticed a delayed onset to the high...like part of my brain were receiving the THC while the rest was not.
This makes sense if you consider that MDMA causes a disruption in the distribution of blood around the brain - in SOME people.
One day, the blood supply should even out, and these drugs will have more predictable effects.
I can already smoke without worrying about panic, although it can still be unpleasant.
That sounds like progress, but it took months to get there.
Also, having to quit smoking resulted in a loss of tolerance to the THC!
While this would normally be a good thing, it actually makes it MUCH more intense - if its not good.
That is one of the reasons for the "2hits and wait" rule.
I learned to take ONE hit and WAIT, at least 10 minutes maybe 20.
Two to three hits was my MAX even on nights when I enjoyed it.
But I always noticed a delayed onset to the high...like part of my brain were receiving the THC while the rest was not.
This makes sense if you consider that MDMA causes a disruption in the distribution of blood around the brain - in SOME people.
One day, the blood supply should even out, and these drugs will have more predictable effects.
I can already smoke without worrying about panic, although it can still be unpleasant.
That sounds like progress, but it took months to get there.
Also, having to quit smoking resulted in a loss of tolerance to the THC!
While this would normally be a good thing, it actually makes it MUCH more intense - if its not good.
That is one of the reasons for the "2hits and wait" rule.
i was use to smoking whatever i could get. Always heads but didnt always know what strain. No matter the weed though i considered myself quite a seasoned smoker and could smoke until i passed out, but now its a different story. I dont really know how to describe the feeling though. Not a headache but more of a remaining feeling from the roll. I can remember feeling like my head exploded the night of the roll and the feeling has just not subsided i guess. Mainly on the top of my head and sides and a little in the back. Like i said though, not pain just discomfort. It also seems as if i have to focus harder to see clearly i know that sounds weird but that also may due to the fact that ive had concerns about my vision being sub par prior to rolling.
but thanks to all who responded hopefully it is just something i will have to condition myself back into. i dont really plan to ever roll again just something i felt i needed to try, but if my love for green does not come back idk what i will do 
mesial
Bluelighter
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- Sep 16, 2010
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You think you might of had a stroke smoking marijuana because you used MDMA? Really?
From reading some of your other posts you certainly seem to have a unique body chemistry... as you have reported to be quite sensitive to many substances and their side effects. I can't say I've noticed any difference in marijuana since I've rolled other than the fact that cannabis seems like a much weaker drug since I began using MDMA.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Not all strokes are disabling...but you need to remember that they are relatively common.
Leading causes of death in the USA - heart disease, cancer, stroke.
If the first two don't get you, there is a pretty good chance that a blood vessel in your brain will do you in.
Strokes are COMMON and they even happen to younger people - esp. smokers.
Not only is it the third leading cause of death, it is the number ONE cause of disability.
Anyone in healthcare will tell you that strokes are very common - and the disability hospitals are packed with people recovering from strokes.
Doing drugs, especially amphetamines or other stims (cocaine esp) increases the risk of this already common medical problem. Many of the deaths from MDMA are traced to stroke/infarction in the brain. These are normally acute cases with many other complications - but the stroke is what kills them.
Also - research using fMRI scans has shown that former users of MDMA sometimes have significant increases in blood flow to various regions around the brain. Decreases are more common and not normally associated with problems, but increases are rare and ARE associated with symptoms - including 'brain zaps', 'head pressure', and anxiety/depression.
It is important to note that these increases eventually resolve, leaving an even distribution of capillaries.
But this can take over a year.
Serotonin is used primarily to contract the smooth muscle around the intestines.
It just so happens that it also plays a significant role in the distribution of blood vessels in the brain.
That is why some elderly people think a high salt diet is the cause...because they associate the event with a heavy meal. Salt has not been linked to strokes, but elderly patients continue to suspect diet as a cause...enough for doctors to take note.
There are a broad range of digestive disorders that have VERY problematic psychological symptoms.
Even patients with simple migraines...serotonin is the suspected culprit.
But science falls short for these patients, because we simply don't understand enough about the interaction between the two nervous systems.
But believe this - serotonin has a direct and profound influence upon small blood vessels in the brain.
I can literally feel the 're-wiring' process happen. In the early stages, the nerves on my face and scalp would reliably correlate to feelings of pressure in different parts of my head. This did not include hyper-vigilance on my part - I tried to ignore it. But with enough repetition, the link became undeniable.
Signs of stroke include - weakness in one arm or leg, blindness in one eye, facial drooping on one side, and loss of speech.
But again, not all strokes cause such severe events. Even some major strokes allow the patients to regain function with time. Immediate exercise is started the very next day, and continued daily. This is the best chance a stroke patient has, other than a few novel treatments - including Viagra. Yes viagra has shown some promising results in restoring blood flow to damaged regions of the brain...
Regardless of the treatment, the level of function achieved by six months is the leading indicator for long-term prognosis.
Acute reactions to MDMA, including serotonin syndrome, have caused massive and lethal strokes.
While rare, former MDMA users have experienced stroke/CBVA during the recovery process.
Remember - the serotonin activity that occurs when digestion occurs, needs an EVEN distribution of blood vessels to be present in the brain.
This is one of the reasons you will see SO many that are recovering from MDMA drastically alter their diets.
Most people that roll have a hard time eating anything other than a protein shake the next day. That is common.
But those that have more serious problems, like me, will radically alter their diets.
I have probably not had a hemorrhage or clot.
Rather, I suspect a TIA or transient ischemic attack.
What I suspect is happening is that small blood vessels, capillaries, are being slowly redistributed around my brain.
As serotonin axons keep popping up, they drag micro-vasculature with them.
Over time, enough of these smaller blood vessels are moved - and the larger arteries supplying them are affected.
When the pressure against a larger blood vessel grows to a great enough extent, the only solution is to grow an new blood vessel - angiogenesis.
This is where Viagra comes in - the nitric oxide release is suspected as the mechanism that supports angiogenesis.
Moving on.
For months I had crawling sensations around my face/head/neck. They didn't hurt, but they often coincided with head-pressure and anxiety. Eventually this tapered off, but I started having pain in my right armpit.
Only on the right side...and it would shoot down the center of the bicep all the way to the elbow.
It was a deep aching sensation, very unpleasant. Over time, different nerves were being affected - sometimes all the way to the hand.
Then one night I smoked some good bud.
This must have been at month 6 or so.
And my brain FREAKED out...and my right arm went VERY numb.
Not just numb, there was still a deep aching pain at the same time.
But the muscle was definitely weak - lifting the arm was much more difficult than the left.
I got through it, but it took over an hour to subside.
A few weeks later, after not sleeping well for days, I ate a meal very heavy in fresh garlic.
This causes blood pressure to drop - not a good thing for possible strokes.
And when I laid down, that seemed to be the last straw.
Although I was exhausted and needed to sleep quite badly, I SHOT UP out of sleep within 10 minutes.
My whole right arm was dead. Not just numb or achy - but dead.
You know the feeling when you sleep on an arm until it wakes you up...then you wait a few minutes for the pins and needles to stop. Yeah - that kind of dead...but I hadn't cut off any circulation to my arm at all.
Pins and needles!
It hurt something fierce...but slowly the feeling came back.
Motor control was still there, so I went back to sleep.
No - I don't see the value in going to the hospital as they cannot treat strokes - and I am NOT a hypochondriac, despite what some may think.
The whole point is that this pain in my chest/arm/hand went on for months.
Weed suddenly made it WORSE one night...but GARLIC really made it POP.
After that - big improvement.
Since then, I have had very few symptoms like before.
The ones I have had are weak in comparison, and by now they are completely gone.
Whatever my brain was doing with blood vessels to cause that, it seems to be a thing of the past.
I am glad it is over - but I most certainly didn't imagine any of the symptoms.
And I have been exercising DAILY and eating very healthy this year.
As far as my 'body chemistry' goes, that is nonsense.
My BRAIN chemistry has DEFINITELY been altered by MDMA.
But before this happened, I was always able to enjoy smoking weed or taking opiates.
I never liked to drink regularly, but I was a heavy smoker for years.
And this is linked to a higher risk for problems with MDMA.
Maybe this is the reason our OP is complaining at all.
Without the heavy on-going use of cannabis, perhaps they wouldn't have reacted so badly to MDMA.
But I agree - the FIRST roll is hard to believe. I rolled at least 12 different times, taking up to 30 doses total before this happened to me. And then there was the stupid dose of benedryl I took, which caused serotonin syndrome...
Leading causes of death in the USA - heart disease, cancer, stroke.
If the first two don't get you, there is a pretty good chance that a blood vessel in your brain will do you in.
Strokes are COMMON and they even happen to younger people - esp. smokers.
Not only is it the third leading cause of death, it is the number ONE cause of disability.
Anyone in healthcare will tell you that strokes are very common - and the disability hospitals are packed with people recovering from strokes.
Doing drugs, especially amphetamines or other stims (cocaine esp) increases the risk of this already common medical problem. Many of the deaths from MDMA are traced to stroke/infarction in the brain. These are normally acute cases with many other complications - but the stroke is what kills them.
Also - research using fMRI scans has shown that former users of MDMA sometimes have significant increases in blood flow to various regions around the brain. Decreases are more common and not normally associated with problems, but increases are rare and ARE associated with symptoms - including 'brain zaps', 'head pressure', and anxiety/depression.
It is important to note that these increases eventually resolve, leaving an even distribution of capillaries.
But this can take over a year.
Serotonin is used primarily to contract the smooth muscle around the intestines.
It just so happens that it also plays a significant role in the distribution of blood vessels in the brain.
That is why some elderly people think a high salt diet is the cause...because they associate the event with a heavy meal. Salt has not been linked to strokes, but elderly patients continue to suspect diet as a cause...enough for doctors to take note.
There are a broad range of digestive disorders that have VERY problematic psychological symptoms.
Even patients with simple migraines...serotonin is the suspected culprit.
But science falls short for these patients, because we simply don't understand enough about the interaction between the two nervous systems.
But believe this - serotonin has a direct and profound influence upon small blood vessels in the brain.
I can literally feel the 're-wiring' process happen. In the early stages, the nerves on my face and scalp would reliably correlate to feelings of pressure in different parts of my head. This did not include hyper-vigilance on my part - I tried to ignore it. But with enough repetition, the link became undeniable.
Signs of stroke include - weakness in one arm or leg, blindness in one eye, facial drooping on one side, and loss of speech.
But again, not all strokes cause such severe events. Even some major strokes allow the patients to regain function with time. Immediate exercise is started the very next day, and continued daily. This is the best chance a stroke patient has, other than a few novel treatments - including Viagra. Yes viagra has shown some promising results in restoring blood flow to damaged regions of the brain...
Regardless of the treatment, the level of function achieved by six months is the leading indicator for long-term prognosis.
Acute reactions to MDMA, including serotonin syndrome, have caused massive and lethal strokes.
While rare, former MDMA users have experienced stroke/CBVA during the recovery process.
Remember - the serotonin activity that occurs when digestion occurs, needs an EVEN distribution of blood vessels to be present in the brain.
This is one of the reasons you will see SO many that are recovering from MDMA drastically alter their diets.
Most people that roll have a hard time eating anything other than a protein shake the next day. That is common.
But those that have more serious problems, like me, will radically alter their diets.
I have probably not had a hemorrhage or clot.
Rather, I suspect a TIA or transient ischemic attack.
What I suspect is happening is that small blood vessels, capillaries, are being slowly redistributed around my brain.
As serotonin axons keep popping up, they drag micro-vasculature with them.
Over time, enough of these smaller blood vessels are moved - and the larger arteries supplying them are affected.
When the pressure against a larger blood vessel grows to a great enough extent, the only solution is to grow an new blood vessel - angiogenesis.
This is where Viagra comes in - the nitric oxide release is suspected as the mechanism that supports angiogenesis.
Moving on.
For months I had crawling sensations around my face/head/neck. They didn't hurt, but they often coincided with head-pressure and anxiety. Eventually this tapered off, but I started having pain in my right armpit.
Only on the right side...and it would shoot down the center of the bicep all the way to the elbow.
It was a deep aching sensation, very unpleasant. Over time, different nerves were being affected - sometimes all the way to the hand.
Then one night I smoked some good bud.
This must have been at month 6 or so.
And my brain FREAKED out...and my right arm went VERY numb.
Not just numb, there was still a deep aching pain at the same time.
But the muscle was definitely weak - lifting the arm was much more difficult than the left.
I got through it, but it took over an hour to subside.
A few weeks later, after not sleeping well for days, I ate a meal very heavy in fresh garlic.
This causes blood pressure to drop - not a good thing for possible strokes.
And when I laid down, that seemed to be the last straw.
Although I was exhausted and needed to sleep quite badly, I SHOT UP out of sleep within 10 minutes.
My whole right arm was dead. Not just numb or achy - but dead.
You know the feeling when you sleep on an arm until it wakes you up...then you wait a few minutes for the pins and needles to stop. Yeah - that kind of dead...but I hadn't cut off any circulation to my arm at all.
Pins and needles!
It hurt something fierce...but slowly the feeling came back.
Motor control was still there, so I went back to sleep.
No - I don't see the value in going to the hospital as they cannot treat strokes - and I am NOT a hypochondriac, despite what some may think.
The whole point is that this pain in my chest/arm/hand went on for months.
Weed suddenly made it WORSE one night...but GARLIC really made it POP.
After that - big improvement.
Since then, I have had very few symptoms like before.
The ones I have had are weak in comparison, and by now they are completely gone.
Whatever my brain was doing with blood vessels to cause that, it seems to be a thing of the past.
I am glad it is over - but I most certainly didn't imagine any of the symptoms.
And I have been exercising DAILY and eating very healthy this year.
As far as my 'body chemistry' goes, that is nonsense.
My BRAIN chemistry has DEFINITELY been altered by MDMA.
But before this happened, I was always able to enjoy smoking weed or taking opiates.
I never liked to drink regularly, but I was a heavy smoker for years.
And this is linked to a higher risk for problems with MDMA.
Maybe this is the reason our OP is complaining at all.
Without the heavy on-going use of cannabis, perhaps they wouldn't have reacted so badly to MDMA.
But I agree - the FIRST roll is hard to believe. I rolled at least 12 different times, taking up to 30 doses total before this happened to me. And then there was the stupid dose of benedryl I took, which caused serotonin syndrome...
mesial
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2010
- Messages
- 249
Your symptoms are not congruent with the general population especially with your limited exposure to MDMA. I'm sorry to hear you seem overly sensitive to serotonergic substances. You seem extremely passionate about sharing your knowledge of the current research... It surprises me you didn't seek medical attention immediately when your limb was paralyzed unsuspectedly.
Strokes are common causes of death, yes... However, it's not common in the age group of MDMA users. The cardiovasculature of elderly is often compromised thus leading to hemorrhage especially when associated with uncontrolled high blood pressure. If you can show me any literature that states cannabis use in healthy individuals increases the chances of a TIA or stroke, I will quit smoking tomorrow.
I believe you have had a rough run with MDMA but your reactions are certainly far from the norm.
Strokes are common causes of death, yes... However, it's not common in the age group of MDMA users. The cardiovasculature of elderly is often compromised thus leading to hemorrhage especially when associated with uncontrolled high blood pressure. If you can show me any literature that states cannabis use in healthy individuals increases the chances of a TIA or stroke, I will quit smoking tomorrow.
I believe you have had a rough run with MDMA but your reactions are certainly far from the norm.
BIGsherm7272
Bluelighter
^ First Bad Comedown is just a paranoid wreck.....I don't think anyone should really take heed of any of his posts, as he is most likely just experiencing anxiety related issues and not a stroke.
Jackie Chan
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 181
I've taken a lot of oxycodone during the time I was recovering from mdma abuse. Maybe during and up til a few months after I last took mdma, oxy just wasn't enjoyable but I can't compare to before mdma cause I never tried opiates until after I had taken lots and lots of mdma. The thing is, as more and more time went by since I last took mdma, the more enjoyable/euphoric I found oxycodone. Same with weed too. Now after 6+ months not touching mdma oxy basically feels great much more euphoric and pleasant than the 1st few months I was just recovering from mdma abuse.
My theory is that there was some damage or downregulation in my brain caused from abusing mdma, and because of that my brains ability to experience the euphoric effects of other drugs were diminished. As my brain recovered from abusing mdma, these other drugs (oxycodone and weed) felt way more enjoyable and euphoric to me.
augustaB
Bluelighter
Definitely, that's why the oldies keep saying space your rolls out, like one every two or three months.
First Bad Comedown
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2010
- Messages
- 562
Mesial -
Since you haven't read enough of my posts to know:
My lifetime exposure to MDMA was only 30 tabs, but these were consumed within a year and a half.
Although most people have a much heavier use during their first year, mine occurred at the age of 28, after 9 years of being a regular cannabis user. This is a significant risk factor according to many papers.
It was my first 'mini-binge' that set me up for SS...I took 2.5 tabs two weekends in a row, plus another half the next day.
The last half probably did more damage than any of the others.
But it wasn't until I took a high dose of DPH (100mg) that I was pushed over the line.
In high doses benedryl inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin...and the combination of any two serotonergic substances is a risk factor for SS.
I do not believe I have an 'overly sensitive' system, but I do believe that this combination was particularly foolish.
Years of cannabis use, followed by MDMA use that goes WELL beyond recommended standards, and finally a euphoric dose of DPH.
I have done extensive research and I have NO doubt that I experienced Serotonin Syndrome, or serotonin toxicity, within 10 minutes of waking up the day after the DPH. This was 72 hours post-roll. While SS normally occurs very quickly after taking the offending drugs, acute reactions to MDMA have occurred 2-3 days after exposure - it is not so uncommon.
For the record, I visited two different ERs that week.
The first one treated me very poorly, literally acting annoyed at my 'anxiety' and only testing liver enzymes before sending me home. The second ER, a private hospital, took much better care of me - but still seemed to have little experience with MDMA patients. They gave me a sonogram to rule out liver damage, but sent me home with medication for ulcers. Hmm.
As my research continued, I discovered that patients with ailments of the GI combined with anxiety are remarkably difficult to treat. There are few medications to treat the serious cases and the connection between the gut and the brain is poorly understood. Even gastro-enterologists are amazed at the complexity - they refer to the intestines as a 'brain' itself.
As for strokes, treatment for TIAs is simple - low dose aspirin is thought to prevent further events. Since TIAs are a risk factor for more serious strokes later on, it is the only treatment. A smart doctor would also recommend changes in diet and exercise, as well as herbal anti-inflammatory options like turmeric.
More serious ischemic strokes can be treated if the patient arrives at the hospital quickly enough - as long as a clot hasn't completely shut off blood supply. Blood thinners can be given and sometimes surgery on neck arteries is required. More serious hemorrhagic strokes are difficult to treat.
In these more serious cases too often there is little that can be done.
By the time the patient has called 911, brain cells are already dying.
If the patient arrives with complete bilateral paralysis or blindness, there is little hope.
My knowledge on strokes comes not just from research.
My father-in-law has been an RN for over 20 years, with most of this time spent in ERs.
RNs are the front line in medicine, and he has been the leading RN for years.
He also consulted with actual doctors for me, if you care to know.
When I told him about my sudden loss of sensation in my arm and the other symptoms - he agreed that I probably had a stroke. Then he agreed with my decision not to go to the hospital.
He explained what limited treatment options there were, and his final judgement was that - "As long as you have regained sensation and motor control, there is no need to go in and waste your money. If you want to see what REAL stroke patients look like, go to a rehabilitation hospital. They are packed with 'em."
He agreed that a TIA is likely what occurred and that they are not normally debilitating - but they can be scary as hell.
29 year old do NOT typically have strokes, but once you approach 40 it is fairly common - esp. for smokers/drinkers.
By old age, the risk for stroke goes up every year you are alive.
He pointed out that back around 2000, when MDMA use was exploding and ERs were getting a LOT more visits - he saw several patients 'expire' due to stroke after MDMA use. There is a long list of complications that occur first, hyponatremia being the most significant as it puts pressure on the brain!
He also said that methamphetamine users have them more frequently - even during RECOVERY.
So he agreed that abstinence from a stimulant can also bring on changes in cerebrovasculature.
Both METH and Coke users are known to experience stroke, both during use and during withdrawal.
For MDMA it is less common, but not impossible.
I never said that cannabis use increases risk of stroke, but it does increase glutamate to very unpleasant levels upon discontinuation in heavy users. Weed-withdrawal can be quite unpleasant for the habitual smoker, and the onset of symptoms are so delayed (10-14 days) that the person is typically unaware of the cause. Also, cannabis can cause changes in the morphology (shape) of the PFC and it is suspected that the brain recruits other neural circuits to compensate. This is one of the possible causes of increased psychopathology among heavy cannabis users that take MDMA.
But rest assured, Mesial, cannabis does alter the brain. The longer you smoke it for, the longer it will take to regain short-term memory and executive function. While the changes are normally well-tolerated, the lasting effect is easy to detect during abstinence. After 10 years of use, it takes over a year for cognitive function to return to baseline.
After 30 years, it never returns. Of course, by then these people are in their 50s and have spent a lifetime being high. It should be no surprise that they have permanently altered their brains.
BigSherm -
I have spent nearly a year contributing to this site.
Nearly all of my posts are very long and detailed, not single line entries like your own.
While some of my posts repeat what others have said, the 'basics' that I provide are pretty damn solid.
I have had hundreds of emails going back and forth that are not visible on the boards.
At least 20-30 different people suffering consequences from MDMA use have found their way to my inbox.
Some of the have stayed with me nearly all year, while others have had brief conversations.
But they are all VERY thankful for the information I provide, because all they get from other BLers is useless statements like - "Your serotonin is too low." or "Your pills were cut with something."
The attitude about the toxicity that is WELL documented in research is pretty astounding on BL.
The 'basic' findings in research may be difficult to understand, but there is no excuse for users of MDMA to reference example of HEAVY repeat MDMA users that suffered no consequences.
This type of attitude is dangerous to the community and especially to the thousands, and eventually millions, of young users that will read what is written here.
The 'arrogance' of youth needs to be tempered - but too many of those that have suffered serious consequences from MDMA are simply incapable of doing what I do. They are either too busy recovering or they are uninterested in trying to convince people that the most amazing drug in the world is also dangerous.
So here I am - determined to help those who need it, and perhaps to prevent a few people from needing help.
"Paranoid wreck" is a pretty weak statement, as is "Fuck off".
I have only been opposed a few times on BL and ALL of them did a better job than that.
I assure you - you do NOT want to get in an ongoing conflict with me.
Others have been exhausted by me, including a former mod (socalthizzn), who only recently showed his face again.
Actually, I don't know why he left - but he seems to think I went away for a similar reason.
This is my attempt to set the record straight...he had nothing to do with my temporary withdrawal from the site and I welcome debate from him ANY day of the week. He never even really opposed me, but he took a ridiculous and partial stance in the last and only major argument I was drawn into.
It is important to note that this conflict was resolved and both parties (chitownrollin and mastersplinter) seem to get along just fine with me. No longer are they bothered by my presence or my strongly worded posts. You should join the club, BigSherm.
Here you are, reading a thread about 'head pressure' from smoking weed after the FIRST roll.
And you just couldn't help yourself...
While the OP is most certainly NOT experiencing a stroke, my bringing it up is somehow threatening and irritating to other MDMA users.
This thread reveals a rather remarkable incident - one that indicates that a SINGLE use of MDMA can result in alterations to blood flow in the brain!
I am not 'paranoid', but you most certainly are arrogant.
Maybe ignorant is the better term - perhaps you don't mean to enter threads like this to belittle the effects the OP is experiencing. Perhaps you simply fail to pick up on their significance.
News flash:
Head pressure from smoking weed after ONE use of MDMA is a BIG deal.
While contaminants MAY be the cause, we do NOT know that for sure.
We DO know that MDMA causes this problem in OTHER people.
And there is a LOT more information on MDMA and cannabis.
Have some of it:
Cerebral Vascular Accident in a young male taking MDMA.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/52xw70x2q127027h/
Cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive component of cannabis, has a modest affinity for the 5-HT1a receptor and possibly 5-HT2a. http://www.springerlink.com/content/y132n82436n8086v/
Self-reported psychological problems are closely correlated to the combination of MDMA and regular cannabis use.
Here's another - http://www.springerlink.com/content/vr8cc8rh2m1pd8j4/
Marijuana results in lowered serotonin and nor-epinephrine levels in teenagers.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217115834.htm
Low doses of marijuana increases serotonin, while large doses cause it to 'plummet'.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/a-little-mariju/
I already posted these on another thread, but there are plenty of others.
Scholar.google.com and search for MDMA +cannabis +psychopathology.
Spend a few hours reading, then come back to have an intelligent debate.
Many papers call cannabis a 'confounding factor' while others say it is more than this.
Some researchers find that long-term use of cannabis is associated with greater problems from MDMA.
There are always opposing points of view and other research papers that provide seemingly contradictory data.
Only a determined reader can really understand the real trends seen in research - and it wouldn't be that hard to see that heavy/long-term use of cannabis + MDMA is a bad combination.
This thread suggests that a single dose of MDMA might cause problems in certain heavy cannabis users.
Accept it for what it is.![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Since you haven't read enough of my posts to know:
My lifetime exposure to MDMA was only 30 tabs, but these were consumed within a year and a half.
Although most people have a much heavier use during their first year, mine occurred at the age of 28, after 9 years of being a regular cannabis user. This is a significant risk factor according to many papers.
It was my first 'mini-binge' that set me up for SS...I took 2.5 tabs two weekends in a row, plus another half the next day.
The last half probably did more damage than any of the others.
But it wasn't until I took a high dose of DPH (100mg) that I was pushed over the line.
In high doses benedryl inhibits the re-uptake of serotonin...and the combination of any two serotonergic substances is a risk factor for SS.
I do not believe I have an 'overly sensitive' system, but I do believe that this combination was particularly foolish.
Years of cannabis use, followed by MDMA use that goes WELL beyond recommended standards, and finally a euphoric dose of DPH.
I have done extensive research and I have NO doubt that I experienced Serotonin Syndrome, or serotonin toxicity, within 10 minutes of waking up the day after the DPH. This was 72 hours post-roll. While SS normally occurs very quickly after taking the offending drugs, acute reactions to MDMA have occurred 2-3 days after exposure - it is not so uncommon.
For the record, I visited two different ERs that week.
The first one treated me very poorly, literally acting annoyed at my 'anxiety' and only testing liver enzymes before sending me home. The second ER, a private hospital, took much better care of me - but still seemed to have little experience with MDMA patients. They gave me a sonogram to rule out liver damage, but sent me home with medication for ulcers. Hmm.
As my research continued, I discovered that patients with ailments of the GI combined with anxiety are remarkably difficult to treat. There are few medications to treat the serious cases and the connection between the gut and the brain is poorly understood. Even gastro-enterologists are amazed at the complexity - they refer to the intestines as a 'brain' itself.
As for strokes, treatment for TIAs is simple - low dose aspirin is thought to prevent further events. Since TIAs are a risk factor for more serious strokes later on, it is the only treatment. A smart doctor would also recommend changes in diet and exercise, as well as herbal anti-inflammatory options like turmeric.
More serious ischemic strokes can be treated if the patient arrives at the hospital quickly enough - as long as a clot hasn't completely shut off blood supply. Blood thinners can be given and sometimes surgery on neck arteries is required. More serious hemorrhagic strokes are difficult to treat.
In these more serious cases too often there is little that can be done.
By the time the patient has called 911, brain cells are already dying.
If the patient arrives with complete bilateral paralysis or blindness, there is little hope.
My knowledge on strokes comes not just from research.
My father-in-law has been an RN for over 20 years, with most of this time spent in ERs.
RNs are the front line in medicine, and he has been the leading RN for years.
He also consulted with actual doctors for me, if you care to know.
When I told him about my sudden loss of sensation in my arm and the other symptoms - he agreed that I probably had a stroke. Then he agreed with my decision not to go to the hospital.
He explained what limited treatment options there were, and his final judgement was that - "As long as you have regained sensation and motor control, there is no need to go in and waste your money. If you want to see what REAL stroke patients look like, go to a rehabilitation hospital. They are packed with 'em."
He agreed that a TIA is likely what occurred and that they are not normally debilitating - but they can be scary as hell.
29 year old do NOT typically have strokes, but once you approach 40 it is fairly common - esp. for smokers/drinkers.
By old age, the risk for stroke goes up every year you are alive.
He pointed out that back around 2000, when MDMA use was exploding and ERs were getting a LOT more visits - he saw several patients 'expire' due to stroke after MDMA use. There is a long list of complications that occur first, hyponatremia being the most significant as it puts pressure on the brain!
He also said that methamphetamine users have them more frequently - even during RECOVERY.
So he agreed that abstinence from a stimulant can also bring on changes in cerebrovasculature.
Both METH and Coke users are known to experience stroke, both during use and during withdrawal.
For MDMA it is less common, but not impossible.
I never said that cannabis use increases risk of stroke, but it does increase glutamate to very unpleasant levels upon discontinuation in heavy users. Weed-withdrawal can be quite unpleasant for the habitual smoker, and the onset of symptoms are so delayed (10-14 days) that the person is typically unaware of the cause. Also, cannabis can cause changes in the morphology (shape) of the PFC and it is suspected that the brain recruits other neural circuits to compensate. This is one of the possible causes of increased psychopathology among heavy cannabis users that take MDMA.
But rest assured, Mesial, cannabis does alter the brain. The longer you smoke it for, the longer it will take to regain short-term memory and executive function. While the changes are normally well-tolerated, the lasting effect is easy to detect during abstinence. After 10 years of use, it takes over a year for cognitive function to return to baseline.
After 30 years, it never returns. Of course, by then these people are in their 50s and have spent a lifetime being high. It should be no surprise that they have permanently altered their brains.
BigSherm -
I have spent nearly a year contributing to this site.
Nearly all of my posts are very long and detailed, not single line entries like your own.
While some of my posts repeat what others have said, the 'basics' that I provide are pretty damn solid.
I have had hundreds of emails going back and forth that are not visible on the boards.
At least 20-30 different people suffering consequences from MDMA use have found their way to my inbox.
Some of the have stayed with me nearly all year, while others have had brief conversations.
But they are all VERY thankful for the information I provide, because all they get from other BLers is useless statements like - "Your serotonin is too low." or "Your pills were cut with something."
The attitude about the toxicity that is WELL documented in research is pretty astounding on BL.
The 'basic' findings in research may be difficult to understand, but there is no excuse for users of MDMA to reference example of HEAVY repeat MDMA users that suffered no consequences.
This type of attitude is dangerous to the community and especially to the thousands, and eventually millions, of young users that will read what is written here.
The 'arrogance' of youth needs to be tempered - but too many of those that have suffered serious consequences from MDMA are simply incapable of doing what I do. They are either too busy recovering or they are uninterested in trying to convince people that the most amazing drug in the world is also dangerous.
So here I am - determined to help those who need it, and perhaps to prevent a few people from needing help.
"Paranoid wreck" is a pretty weak statement, as is "Fuck off".
I have only been opposed a few times on BL and ALL of them did a better job than that.
I assure you - you do NOT want to get in an ongoing conflict with me.
Others have been exhausted by me, including a former mod (socalthizzn), who only recently showed his face again.
Actually, I don't know why he left - but he seems to think I went away for a similar reason.
This is my attempt to set the record straight...he had nothing to do with my temporary withdrawal from the site and I welcome debate from him ANY day of the week. He never even really opposed me, but he took a ridiculous and partial stance in the last and only major argument I was drawn into.
It is important to note that this conflict was resolved and both parties (chitownrollin and mastersplinter) seem to get along just fine with me. No longer are they bothered by my presence or my strongly worded posts. You should join the club, BigSherm.
Here you are, reading a thread about 'head pressure' from smoking weed after the FIRST roll.
And you just couldn't help yourself...
While the OP is most certainly NOT experiencing a stroke, my bringing it up is somehow threatening and irritating to other MDMA users.
This thread reveals a rather remarkable incident - one that indicates that a SINGLE use of MDMA can result in alterations to blood flow in the brain!
I am not 'paranoid', but you most certainly are arrogant.
Maybe ignorant is the better term - perhaps you don't mean to enter threads like this to belittle the effects the OP is experiencing. Perhaps you simply fail to pick up on their significance.
News flash:
Head pressure from smoking weed after ONE use of MDMA is a BIG deal.
While contaminants MAY be the cause, we do NOT know that for sure.
We DO know that MDMA causes this problem in OTHER people.
And there is a LOT more information on MDMA and cannabis.
Have some of it:
Cerebral Vascular Accident in a young male taking MDMA.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/52xw70x2q127027h/
Cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive component of cannabis, has a modest affinity for the 5-HT1a receptor and possibly 5-HT2a. http://www.springerlink.com/content/y132n82436n8086v/
Self-reported psychological problems are closely correlated to the combination of MDMA and regular cannabis use.
Here's another - http://www.springerlink.com/content/vr8cc8rh2m1pd8j4/
Marijuana results in lowered serotonin and nor-epinephrine levels in teenagers.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217115834.htm
Low doses of marijuana increases serotonin, while large doses cause it to 'plummet'.
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/10/a-little-mariju/
I already posted these on another thread, but there are plenty of others.
Scholar.google.com and search for MDMA +cannabis +psychopathology.
Spend a few hours reading, then come back to have an intelligent debate.
Many papers call cannabis a 'confounding factor' while others say it is more than this.
Some researchers find that long-term use of cannabis is associated with greater problems from MDMA.
There are always opposing points of view and other research papers that provide seemingly contradictory data.
Only a determined reader can really understand the real trends seen in research - and it wouldn't be that hard to see that heavy/long-term use of cannabis + MDMA is a bad combination.
This thread suggests that a single dose of MDMA might cause problems in certain heavy cannabis users.
Accept it for what it is.
You guys need to lay off First Bad Comedown and listen to some of the stuff he says, even if his situation is different or if some of his stuff sounds far fetched. Most of the negative after effects of MDMA have cleared up for me, or i have learned to live with the changes. My rolling schedule is very similar to his as well. Anyways back when i was new to MDMA and obsessed with it , it was just my luck that most people on the ED were complete e-tards and basically all talked about how they only gained positive aspects from MDMA. I then hopped on the train and believed that MDMA was hardly damaging, much less than alcohol which is bull shit. I would have rather had people like First Bad Comedown preaching about how there is very real danger involved with your neurochemistry when you mess with MDMA even moderately. That way i could have spaced out my usage even more than i was use to, but what ever i guess you live and learn. I went through a lot of tough times during the recovery processes of MDMA but most of it has cleared up. So i am happy for that