Weed causing psychosis?

[cannabis sativa]

i dont think so, i fucked with my head pretty good when i was smoking gravity hits every hour of every day for a few weeks. i believe that had i continued i would have descended into madness. even now, 10 months after i got over my cannabis addiction i still suffer occasional bouts of panic and anxiety.

 

[Bludda]

Quote Blowmonkey: No, that's where you're wrong. Cannabis is not the causative factor, that's your girlfriend probably being predisposed to mental ilnesses. Cannabis HAS never been proven to be the causative factor, correlation does not mean causation..


Ok , I agree. Yes the issue is about whether weed CAUSES psychosis. But, in all honesty, you have to admit it starts to become a much of a muchness when one begins to differentiate between a 'normal' (what the fuck is normal anyway) person who develops a mental illness as a result of cannabis use and a person whose underlying predisposition to mental illness is triggered by cannabis use...

This is even more so the case when it would be reasonable to assume that a person's latent mental condition might never have been triggered if it weren't for the use of cannabis.

It depends how pedantic one wants to be about this issue. If the outcome is the same, is the difference between 'causing mental illness' and 'triggering hidden, possibly hitherto harmless mental illness' really that much of an issue?

 

[euphorically]

^^ Agreed with alot of what's being said.......... Keeping an open mind is going to help in many ways. Saying things like "Weed ain't bad for you at all" is about as meaningless as saying "Weed fucks your mind", both narrow minded views.

Your state of mind, before any drug taking I gather is one of the largest factors to the end result. If you put in the effort and create a healthly mind first, then the weed can act as a mind expanding tool or just a fun reward, no harm done!

 

[SickPunk]

Anyone who says weed is safe and has never been PROVEN to cause mental illness is merely being semantic. While I acknowledge weed was not the sole cause of my then-girlfriend's illness, the simple fact of the matter is that if she had not smoked a joint she, her family and myself would not have had to go through the most horrible experience of our lives.

First off, I say this with the utmost in respect - that certainly sounds like an ordeal that you had to go through. But if it was this lone joint that triggered the experience, couldn't a whole lot of things trigger it? If she was already suffering latent psychological damage from both this road rage incident and the drug use, wasn't its emergence merely a matter of time?

Arguably, if she hadn't been able to let it out and fight through this experience, couldn't it have caused her more extensive problems in the future?

 

[BilZ0r]

It's a very complicated problem, in all aspects. The actuall philosphy of science: What is causation? How can one be certain of a causation? The experimental design: Can one ever establish causation from retrospective study (i.e. looking at people after the experience)? And even the plain psychiatry: What is psychosis?

There is a tome of evidence that cannabis use correlates with psychosis, and that the more you smoke, the more likely you are to be psychotic. There are also several longtitudinal studies which show that cannabis use precedes numerous mental disorders, specifically anxiety and depression.

The problem is, people who want to bend the scientific results to support one idea or another can do so. Some say "look, there's a dose-dependent correlation, it really must be causative" others say "oh, its self-medication, and stress makes people more likely to be psychotic and smoke cannabis, and the definitions they use are too much like 'what is it like to be stoned?'"

Until they get ethical permission to get large groups of people and randomly assign them to groups which are forced to smoke high or low potency cannabis, I geuss we will never know.

 

[WRX STi]

Until they get ethical permission to get large groups of people and randomly assign them to groups which are forced to smoke high or low potency cannabis, I geuss we will never know.

god i would love to be a subject in that study ^

anyway, I have a friend that basically became schizophrenic after a few yrs of smoking weed. But with all cases like that, there is no way to answer the million dollar question: would he have gotten it if he hadn't ever smoked?

 

[n_Ovis]

Well, I had a psychosis episode that required hospitalization back in February. Ive been smoking herb 6 or 7 times a week since then and I havent had any kind of relapse or even mild symptoms of psychosis.

Personally, I dont think weed would cause psychosis in a normal person, its just not that strong of a drug. Now I could see it possibly causing a relapse in someone with previous psychosis episodes even tho it hasnt caused that for me.

 

[Bludda]

If she was already suffering latent psychological damage from both this road rage incident and the drug use, wasn't its emergence merely a matter of time?

Arguably, if she hadn't been able to let it out and fight through this experience, couldn't it have caused her more extensive problems in the future?

I understand what you're saying SickPunk - and that is exactly what I believed happened. Yet, the only thing I can know from this experience was that it happened as a result of smoking that joint.

Yes, it is possible that another event may have eventually triggered her illness. It is also possible that if she had given her brain a break she may have been able to repair her fractured mind before it broke.

Saying that it was beneficial in that it may have prevented a more serious eiposode in the future is a very positive way of looking at the whole thing (it also happens to be the way I choose to look at this chapter of my life). Then again, she may have never had to experience Hell at all, ever, if she hadn't smoked that joint.

However , all of this is speculation. The one thing that isn't speculation is that, in this instance, cannabis was the trigger. Whether something else could have been a trigger at a different time is not the issue.

The difference is (with reference to my ex-girlfriend's experience):

Weed+Trauma+Recreational Drug Use+Possible Underlying Mental Illness = Psychosis

compared to:

Trauma+Recreational Drug Use + Possible Underlying Mental Illness = EITHER: Psychosis OR No Psychosis


Now don't get me wrong, I don't hate weed and I'm not anti-weed. I used to love the shit and smoked for years. However, the above differece is a big enough difference for me - because when it comes to playing with one's mind, the stakes are very, very high. It's a pity that it took something really horrible and extreme to happen for me to learn this.

Sorry for getting a bit off topic, I suppose all I'm saying is to not take refuge behind arguments like "Weed has never been proven to cause Psychosis" to justify your own smoking. I'd rather take a drug, know the risks, take responsibility for my actions and know what do if a risk eventuates; than delude myself, not be prepared and possibly get bent over and fucked.

Like any drug, I believe there is a 'safe' way to use weed. I believe finding this safe ground is hard, given black and white arguments like "Weed causes psychosis" and "Weed has never been proven to cause psychosis".
If there is not enough information available to for you to make an informed opinion on whether the amount you smoke will cause you problems, make a choice. Know yourself, know your drug, know the risks.


That's when you should sit back, relax, and roll up....

 

[awatkins]

i dont think so, i fucked with my head pretty good when i was smoking gravity hits every hour of every day for a few weeks. i believe that had i continued i would have descended into madness. even now, 10 months after i got over my cannabis addiction i still suffer occasional bouts of panic and anxiety.

dude, we are talking about PSYCHOSIS, not neurosis which is what panic and anxiety is, completely different story man, psychosis is being out of touch reality, anxiety and panic is a response to realtiy; delusions and hallucinations and such typcially are not a response to reality
besides the typical pot smoker does not take gravity hits every hour of every day for weeks, shit man ofcourse you are fucking up your head if you smoke that much, but seriously dude your case is far from representative of population, weed-smoking behavior

 

[Black Octagon]

BUMP

I'm gonna dig up this old thread because the 8th issue of Erowid Extracts (June 2005) has just come out online. So anyone interested can now read the full text of "Cannabis and Psychosis: A Guide to Current Research about Cannabis and Mental Health" by Earth Erowid here.

Enjoy.

 

[BilZ0r]

I was at a seminar by one of the authors on this paper. Interesting statistics... cannabis had no influence on people on the whole, but when you split down the cohort into two groups, those with the mutant COMT gene, and those without, you saw a large statistically significant result, COMT mutants go crazy on the chron.

 

[Black Octagon]

Hmm, so its possible that the real problem is that 'weed-smokers' are being homogenised? That different people's brains react differently to THC because of substantive differences in their brain chemistry?

 

[drug_wench]

some ppl DO get really paranoid on weed, and some ppl even somewat hallucinate
i imagine all that cud lead to psychosis in susceptible ppl
my friends schizophrenic uncle had his first episode of psychosis after starting smoking weed regularly

 

[frizzantik]

Cannabis Psychosis: Reefer Madness for the new Millenium

I'm sure some people do have serious medical conditions, and I wouldn't be suprised if cannabis aggrivates that condition.

I just find it laughable that the anti-pot crusaders use this "cannabis psychosis" as an argument to reclassify weed as a Class B drug, while not being very concerned about alcohol psychosis.. surely alcohol should at least be as illegal as pot before they bother trying to get pot upgraded

 

[Flowingbeyond]

it is real, but dont be scared. Its not like youre rotting from the inside out... Its more like a really strong trip that never ends. lol



HAHAHAHHAHA. oh man. I uhhh yeah... It can cause psychosis, but a drug user is used to it... Just fuckin rock on brothers and sisters. I lost my sense of self a while ago, but who knows. Maybe its just ascension in consciousness anda high level of kundalini going in the wrong direction. ???

either way, shit comes and goes, and pharms can do a lot of work on a mind with mixed up signals, its just a phase....

 

[Xorkoth]

Responsible marijuana use (like most of the time you're sober, but you can still smoke daily) can keep you more grounded to reality, in a way, by providing all the de-stressing that it does while being far safer than alcohol. Puts things into perspective, you know? If you find you're high nearly all the time (like I used to be), the detachment slowly grows. Being sober can fix this, but of course many virtually never are. It's safe to say, I think, that marijuana has no negative impact on my life or performance in life's activities anymore like it used to, because my primary frame of reference is once again sobriety (with a lot of psychedelic states mixed in to never allow myself to forget what's important in life).

 

[Flowingbeyond]

None of the true psychotic thoughts actually take over, but odd things occur in my mind. Yet not unlike Xorkoth, my primary frame of reference is reality and my sight isnt impaired, so I know id never let anything bad happen. or stupid...

Im still aware.

 

[SexWivMusic]

Lol, it's all in your mind.

& it's our mind that allows us 2 interface with everything. It's the processor of our computer (body), what happends when your PC processor gets fried? No more computer...

 

[tiger-bunny]

weed has helped me become more psychotic while already tweaking, it seems to boost the paranoia and visuals from sleep dep+meth. can make day 5 feel like day 10 if u havnt been smoking weed the whole binge and then sit down and puff a ton of weed.

 

[ayjay]

I think the more relevant approach to this is to frame it in harm reduction terms, from the smoker's perspective:

If I smoke, I want to be able to spot the early warning signs of developing mental health issues. I also want to know some strategies to manage these. These strategies may include reducing or ceasing smoking, but also some other angles as well (cos not everyone is ready/willing/able to slow down)

As an aside - are there any studies that focus on the ratio of THC to other cannabinoids, in terms of impact on mental health? I find some of the nonsense about "the hyge is so much stronger" to be laughable, but it would be interesting if you could produce a product that resulted in less mental health issues ...