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Heroin water/heat effecting potency of a shot

true that tricomb. I would never add heat to the local east coast powder because it dissolves so well in cold water. according to my dad even though when a solution cools down the dissolved particles precipitate, it may not happen instantly. there are so many variables at play that it's impossible to predict what will happen. a flake of dust that fell into the solution could cause it to precipitate.
 
^I just stumbled across this thread as I have been heating some of the yellow Pakistani dope I have been getting, even though it logically is unnecessary as it is comprised of diacetylmorphine HCl and cuts - ironically it is the immense amounts of cuts that fool the eye and make one think 'I want the most out of this shot and I would rather be sure that all heroin is dissolved, and then to hell with it if I inject a few adulterants compared to loosing some of my precious dope.' Stupid evil thought loop. What your dad, down508, says about the shot cooling and not everything precipitating at the same time, or a flake of dust causing precipitation of certain chemicals, is due to the latent heat of various elements and molecules. Some things retain heat better than others, and I think they may retain the heat and not conduct it into the solution, so it can feel cool while it is actually not in its entirety. So even though one thinks the shot has cooled down enough, give it a little extra time - that is if you absolutely must heat your dope.

I mostly get brown heroin which generally needs acid and heat to react and dissolve, so I am quite redundant in terms of giving the shot an extra 5-10 mins to cool, before filtering and shooting. But from experience, patience is a virtue, it only takes about twice as long for diaceyltmorphine HCl to dissolve in cold water compared to when heated, that is if it is powder. If it is tar (which I have never tried), wouldn't it be an idea to get a larger syringe to make your solutions in before filtering? This could allow you to put in the tar, add the water and shake vigorously so that it goes into solution faster, rather than having to heat it in a cooker? After that simply transfer it to a spoon or 'cooker' and filter the cold solution into your shot syringe?

Also, when I heat dope, I can smell dope evaporating. Usually when it comes to a slight boil, the vapours have the exact same smell as when heroin is smoked, which leads me to the conclusion that yes, heating degrades the potency of the shot.
 
^Due to lack of better words I wrote slight boil. For clarities sake I want to mention that I don't actually mean a rolling boil but heating it up to a point just below a slight simmer; when and if I use heat, it is a process of slow gentle heating as you say, constantly shifting position of the flame in a seemingly 8-shaped pattern. If heating a mix, I always use the lowest possible flame setting, until the slightest bubble begins to form at the bottom of the cooker. At this point I then stop and leave the solution to cool before filtering, sometimes adding a dab of cold sterile water to speed the process. At the time of the first bubble forming I believe the solution is likely around 80-90°C and the colour is generally homogeneous by then, however a lot of the time a stir of the mix is necessary after turning off the low heat in order to get a solution with the drug evenly dispersed, and at these high temperatures cut clearly coagulates or dissolves. Once cooled, however, there is usually more particulate matter that has settled either at the bottom and/or the top of the solution as a result of precipitation during cooling. So all in all I think we are on the same page, I just managed to choose the wrong words to describe my method. Slow, gentle heat, never a rolling boil or even simmer ;)
 
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do not heat the shot!!! again, i repeat, DONT FUCKING HEAT YOUR SHOTS!!! heating the shot will cause all the bacteria and cuts to dissolve into your shot, which is counterproductive. putting water on the dope separates the heroin from the cuts, so by heating the shot you are doing the exact opposite of what you are trying to obtain by ptting the liquid on the dope in the first place....

dont heat shots, dont heat shots, dont heat shots!

Ya i been down in VA for a few months and EVERYONE here loves heating their shit. i keep telling them that all that will do is dissolve unwanted cut into their shots, but they insist that it increases their rush. I've NEVER heard anyone say that in my life, but people are stuborn. especially junkies. haha
 
Ya i been down in VA for a few months and EVERYONE here loves heating their shit. i keep telling them that all that will do is dissolve unwanted cut into their shots, but they insist that it increases their rush. I've NEVER heard anyone say that in my life, but people are stuborn. especially junkies. haha

Ha, that's beyond idiotic to think heating your shot increases your rush. 8(
 
I've never heated my H. I almost always get powder (East Coast mostly) but even on the Left Coast I wouldn't heat the tar, I'd just wait a little longer and maybe stir it a itty bit 'cause I'm impatient.
 
If I had a dollar for every stupid claim I've heard people make about things affecting drug potency and things you should do to get higher...all of which are scientifically false and often completely backwards...well I'd probably have like 60 or so dollars.
 
I HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE (light heat cleans tar) AND I THINK I KNOW WHY:

I think majorigpa was using the wrong term when he said "disperse" because I think Im getting the same or similar stuff and I COMPLETELY know what he's talking about.

I put mine in my nose, "waterline" style, because all I can get out here is tar, or a light tan powder that immediately turns into nasty tar as soon as it can absorb moisture from the air. I dissolve it and filter it the same as one would to IV

past few months I started getting sinus infections probably from putting dirty tar heroin up my nose every day. I started looking for ways to knock as much of the cut out as possible, and possible lower the acidity a bit so it doesnt do as much tissue damage.

I ran across some posts on various boards where some tar users said that by adding TINY amounts of baking soda to their shots before slightly heating, they managed to precipitate out some of the nastier, oiler cuts that looked like shoepolish.

so i started doing this, but the problem is trying to find that "sweet spot" where the ph is such that the dope doesnt' fall out of solution with the cut, too much soda and its ruined.

i started experimenting adding less and less baking soda to see what the smallest amount I could get this "clean up" effect from was.

* note about this particular tar* all of the types of tar I have gotten this to work with are all quite "potent" but nonetheless leave a murkey, muddy, opaque solution even when only a moderate amount (.05 - .35) is dissolved COLD and filtered through cotton

This next part is why I think we shouldnt be so quick to discount MAJORIGPA's insistance that mild heat cleans up his stuff....

at a certain point, the amount of baking soda I added became so small that "bubbles" no longer formed (signaling the beginning of the desired reaction) unless VERY MILD heat was added, allowing the solution to become VERY WARM (NOT HOT).

I quickly realized that my experiment needed a "control" to rule out the bizzarre possibility that warming the solution was causing the majority of the cut to become insoluable.

the results of my control experiment shocked the hell out of me, as prior to this I spent years yelling at all my friends for heating- even warming- their shots.

Cold dissolved, a brown, muddy solution.........slight heat added after the h/cut is totally dissolved, DID NOT AGITATE or stir in any way once heat is added.....quite rapidly, I noticed the microscopic sized particulate matter sticking to itself and forming larger and larger particles, and then globules, then chunks, some sink to the bottom, others float in little "pools" like oil on the surface.....Taking care not to disturb the now seperate cut, a fairly large cotton is dropped into the liquid to absorb most/all of it without re-agitating the cut..........

Result (much to my surprise the first time i did it) is a rig full of super clear light gold liquid the likes of which I have rarely seen on this coast.

In a later test I dissolved half a gram in half a cc of liquid and managed to clean it up using this method into a light gold, urine colored shot- perfectly clear

Practice and experience with this method have taught me that the less heat you can use to achieve this the better- I usually warm the cooker for less than a second at a time and wait for the heat to slowly work its way through the metal to the solution before addinganother half a second of flame, all the while keeping the cooker tilted at a 45 degree angle and slowly rotating it so the cut floating on top collects in one place quicker ( practice and you get a technique down)....



BUT WHY ON EARTH WOULD THIS COUNTERINTUITIVE BULLSHIT WORK?

my theory is that the water, as it comes out of my tap (and most of those in my city), has a PH high enough to lower the acidity of the solution just enough to mimic the effects of adding the tinyest touch of baking soda....
My guess is that were the dope acidic enough, or if neutral/acidic water were used to start with, this phenomenon as experienced by MAJORIGPA and myself seperately would no longer occur until a minute amount of base is added...


THOUGHTS?
 
Don't u have to cook #3 heroin with citric or acetic acid?my friend recently had some #3 from Norway and heat and acid were required i believe....but then i do crack shots with cold watet and citric i just stir it till it breaks doqn.would this cold waterr cook worrk with #3 smack with acid?
 
I HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE (light heat cleans tar) AND I THINK I KNOW WHY:

I think majorigpa was using the wrong term when he said "disperse" because I think Im getting the same or similar stuff and I COMPLETELY know what he's talking about.

I put mine in my nose, "waterline" style, because all I can get out here is tar, or a light tan powder that immediately turns into nasty tar as soon as it can absorb moisture from the air. I dissolve it and filter it the same as one would to IV

past few months I started getting sinus infections probably from putting dirty tar heroin up my nose every day. I started looking for ways to knock as much of the cut out as possible, and possible lower the acidity a bit so it doesnt do as much tissue damage.

I ran across some posts on various boards where some tar users said that by adding TINY amounts of baking soda to their shots before slightly heating, they managed to precipitate out some of the nastier, oiler cuts that looked like shoepolish.

so i started doing this, but the problem is trying to find that "sweet spot" where the ph is such that the dope doesnt' fall out of solution with the cut, too much soda and its ruined.

i started experimenting adding less and less baking soda to see what the smallest amount I could get this "clean up" effect from was.

* note about this particular tar* all of the types of tar I have gotten this to work with are all quite "potent" but nonetheless leave a murkey, muddy, opaque solution even when only a moderate amount (.05 - .35) is dissolved COLD and filtered through cotton

This next part is why I think we shouldnt be so quick to discount MAJORIGPA's insistance that mild heat cleans up his stuff....

at a certain point, the amount of baking soda I added became so small that "bubbles" no longer formed (signaling the beginning of the desired reaction) unless VERY MILD heat was added, allowing the solution to become VERY WARM (NOT HOT).

I quickly realized that my experiment needed a "control" to rule out the bizzarre possibility that warming the solution was causing the majority of the cut to become insoluable.

the results of my control experiment shocked the hell out of me, as prior to this I spent years yelling at all my friends for heating- even warming- their shots.

Cold dissolved, a brown, muddy solution.........slight heat added after the h/cut is totally dissolved, DID NOT AGITATE or stir in any way once heat is added.....quite rapidly, I noticed the microscopic sized particulate matter sticking to itself and forming larger and larger particles, and then globules, then chunks, some sink to the bottom, others float in little "pools" like oil on the surface.....Taking care not to disturb the now seperate cut, a fairly large cotton is dropped into the liquid to absorb most/all of it without re-agitating the cut..........

Result (much to my surprise the first time i did it) is a rig full of super clear light gold liquid the likes of which I have rarely seen on this coast.

In a later test I dissolved half a gram in half a cc of liquid and managed to clean it up using this method into a light gold, urine colored shot- perfectly clear

Practice and experience with this method have taught me that the less heat you can use to achieve this the better- I usually warm the cooker for less than a second at a time and wait for the heat to slowly work its way through the metal to the solution before addinganother half a second of flame, all the while keeping the cooker tilted at a 45 degree angle and slowly rotating it so the cut floating on top collects in one place quicker ( practice and you get a technique down)....



BUT WHY ON EARTH WOULD THIS COUNTERINTUITIVE BULLSHIT WORK?

my theory is that the water, as it comes out of my tap (and most of those in my city), has a PH high enough to lower the acidity of the solution just enough to mimic the effects of adding the tinyest touch of baking soda....
My guess is that were the dope acidic enough, or if neutral/acidic water were used to start with, this phenomenon as experienced by MAJORIGPA and myself seperately would no longer occur until a minute amount of base is added...


THOUGHTS?

Interesting post an an interesting thread.
Now I am into converting morph to H.
When we have the morphine powdered we add a touch of bi card and cook it off to clean any residual wax/ impurities before adding the dub.
Maybe this would work with tar. I say maybe as I would try it but we don't get tar here. But I would be giving it a try with a little amount and seeing how you go.
Other thing is, do not use tap water as the chlorine may be disturbing your gear.
I have always cooked my gear as I come from the old era when hep A was around, right or wrong we were instructed to do this for health reasons. I have never had an issue were my gear was destroyed or changed due to cooking.
 
Does that go for all drugs including speed. Every show I see and people eons ago used to always heat. I'm with you. I would think heat makes everything dissolve: SO same for SPEED?
 
Things you do not do with tar:

Heat (There is some terrible cuts out there for this shit and you definitely do not want plant based oils in your body, nor do you want to break down insoluble cuts...)
Add acid (It's already very acidic. Do you ever wonder why it reeks of vinegar?)
Miss you shots... Abscess... Abscess... Abscess...
 
I couldn't agree with you more…
I have 20+ years of using California black tar and here's my simple yet effective way of doing things:
First of all I have a reliable source where I get my product from so I don't have to worry about random street shit…
Once I get to a safe place such as home, I break out my clean spoon, preferably a clean rig or at least a rig that I have cleaned out with soap and/or alcohol, set those down for the moment… Take my required amount from my issue, put it in the spoon add in the amount of water which I'm used to… Either hold a lighter under it or put the gas stove on very very low setting, and just as you see tiny bubbles starting to come up, take the spoon away from the heat source...
This is where my own personal trials and tribulations coming to play and people may argue for or against it… Anyway, I let it cool down to a comfortable temperature simply use the end of the plunger to start mixing it until it becomes completely liquefied…
The rest of you probably know the Russ, but just in case, toss in a clean piece of cotton, if you have a brand-new rig that's preferable, but take your point and insert it into the cotton, and draw it up…from then on it's self-explanatory however, depending on if you want to hit a vein or muscle it or skin poppet, your best bet to avoid abscesses and whatnot, is to simply use rubbing alcohol and clean The desired entry area before hand...personally, if I can, I'll wipe it down afterwords with a little bit of alcohol and if there's any blood absorb it until it's gone and dry…
Sorry for the novella but I just felt like throwing in my two cents I've been doing this a long time and I've been there pretty much every possible experience…The trick is when heating up the tar, personally at least, when cooking it – I'll like to just bring it to a boil and then remove it from the heat source completely… Although I've had a girlfriend that would boil it for anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds and they seem to be twice as hard as I was LOL… It's just my preference to bring it to a super quick boil... again, sorry for the novella, hope this helps somebody out! ?
 
do not heat the shot!!! again, i repeat, DONT FUCKING HEAT YOUR SHOTS!!! heating the shot will cause all the bacteria and cuts to dissolve into your shot, which is counterproductive. putting water on the dope separates the heroin from the cuts, so by heating the shot you are doing the exact opposite of what you are trying to obtain by ptting the liquid on the dope in the first place....

dont heat shots, dont heat shots, dont heat shots!

If he has freebase and needs to add citric acid, then he should heat the heroin lightly with water and 20-30mg of Citric acid and then allow time for the mixture to turn somewhat clear. Allow for it to cool, filter, draw up, and shoot.

If he has salt form, then he should not need to heat it at all, it should just dissolve in water.

As far as I'm aware, black tar is freebase, but someone else can correct me if that's wrong.
 
Damn I just want to knownidnyoi can remove coke from heroin? But I'm thinking since they are both water soluble I doubt so..
 
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