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Was this an over or under shot dose?

Ganj

Ganj

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Once my friend had a pretty emotionless experience with mushrooms, as in it was such a powerful trip he essentially blacked out and simply couldn't process it, remembers very little of it and took a few hours to remember how to speak after the whole thing. At this point he was not very experienced with mushrooms at all and did not expect such an intense experience.

I read delightful reports of feelings of being isolated in space, nothing near you for millions of miles just floating watching the entire universe warp, shift and explode or getting crazy real life like CEV's of being in grand buildings and of course the sensation of dying and being re-born. Did his trip go so pear shaped due to inexperience or was the dose simply too high for him? We put around 60 libs in a pan and boiled it for 20 mins, not exactly a very large amount when split 35-65 him taking the larger dose. But I have also read of low doses being very uncomfortable and scary, do you think if he had taken more the experience would have been more memorable?

He noted a lot of changing from 0 to 1 to 2 to 3 dimensions somehow, with a colour being one dimension and sound being another sort of thing...

So too much or too little?
 
Sounds like the dose was way too high for inexperienced. Idk why you'd think lower doses are scarier though
 
60 libs means sixty Psilocybe semilanceata mushrooms. Method of ingestion also seems pretty important. Ive eaten 20 libs in school and hid it fine and drunk 25 as tea and fell in love with bright blue glowing plants and tried to climb into heaven.
 
60 liberty caps should be about 2 dry grams which should be enough for a 'normal' or medium level trip (level 3 of 5 levels at the shroomery, check the calculator) - pretty much a full dose assuming average potency and average size shrooms. Mushrooms are natural products and potency can vary a lot. Probably a bell curve shaped distribution function or something.

Also, occasionally mushrooms can cause weird/unusual symptoms; even kinda fucked up and scary but not actually dangerous / damaging / unhealthy symptoms. For example brain zaps, blackouts and whiteouts. Mushrooms seem to have a mysteriously higher incidence of such responses compared to other psychedelics. Even when compared to other, synthetic, tryptamines though I think those might be a slight bit closer. Secondary alkaloids doing some modulations perhaps..

Method of ingestion is probably not the reason or explanation for what happened to you, variance in potency may be why. When you ate the 20 liberty caps, did you chew them well? Perhaps if you swallowed dry shrooms whole there could be delay in effect because of slow digestion of fibrous mushroom tissue, that delay might subsequently cause acute onset tolerance. But even this is farfetched. Mushroom tea cannot really be more potent than eaten mushrooms in terms of how much alkaloids are ingested, since it adds no extra drug. However tea being a liquid is very readily absorbed and a very sharply spiking peak blood plasma level of tryptamines can cause the opposite (actually absence) of tolerance. You are caught off guard so to speak.
Again, if when you ate the 20 you managed to prevent proper absorption somehow (stomach content could be another factor there) there may be something to it... but if you would check our shroom subthread on tea you will probably not conclude that tea is generally hyperpotent.
 
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I agree that small amount of mushrooms can be uncomfortable, but also have a story of being caught off-guard by liberty cap tea. Came on really hard and fast, I got 'over-excited' juggling and playing with bubbles, nearly had a panic attack and in the process of calming myself down I went into a dream-like state where I was apparently unconscious.

This was off a brew shared many ways, roughly even doses, no-one else had similar effects, and I had plenty of experience with mushrooms.

They're just mischievous little things!
 
alf meneas said:
They're just mischievous little things!
Click to expand...

This made me chuckle =D

When I ate the 20 caps, I simply swallowed, no chewing at all, that makes a lot of sense solipsis thanks, lucky I didnt chew them if this is the case as I was very close to ,loosing it when my classmates started to look sinister as hell, wiry hair, intimidating smiles and scary looking eyes, was just very mild visuals.

Funnily enough when I drunk the tea, I experienced no specific peak, there were lots of fake peaks which I thought were real followed by a fantastic grand finale where the ground became mm's thick and fire works shot out of the floor into the sky.

I used the shroomery a lot but mainly for identification, was the 2nd ID request I put up which were actually libs, I still remember the excitement.

Can you explain what white-outs and brain zaps are?
 
They are effects that appear to be linked with unusual electrical activity and/or serotonin levels or fluctuating changes thereof in the brain. Hyperpolarisation of neurons and short-circuiting may be involved resulting in feedback loops and surges in brain activity. Seizures and epileptiform activity are possible manifestations. A whiteout would be a more gradual form of that and rapid dissociation, depersonalisation and derealisation may be experienced and people have reported their vision turning white instead of dark when losing consciousness. I find it hard to say whether consciousness or awareness are lost or gained in a whiteout, functionally you would probably say lost and amount of brain activity is IMO not a measure of consciousness but instead field coherence of CNS activity.
Brain zaps are thought to be (possibly( caused by unusual levels of serotonin or rather the fluctuation. They commonly arise when discontinuating SSRI medication (anti-depressants) and sometimes coming down from a strong MDMA experience. I've had them, it is like the name just says a zap in the brain. A sudden jolt of unstable brain activity that may or may not function as a notch when neurotransmitter levels are shifting. They feel very annoying and disconcerting and a bit scary causing concern for one's health... however they are not actually considered to be dangerous for the health. Even seizures don't really cause damage AFAIK unless there are multiple full-on ones in succession.

I know one or two things about it but the rest I finished by theorizing so be aware of that. However I do think myself that this is correct and imagine that how it could work is someone being in a condition involving altered management of neurotransmitter levels such as the use of drugs that inhibit serotonin reuptake. Elevated levels of synaptic serotonin that would normally be 'recycled' may possibly allow for sustained firing of neurons. Including neurons that are part of feedback loops, forming self-reinforcing circuits / shortcircuits.
 
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