☠ WARNING ☠ Warning: Mislabeled Batch of 2C-B-Fly That Has Caused Deaths

[egor]

Yes. The same batch.
About the isomer, not sure. What is sure is that BDF dosing is not a sure thing (see the erowid two different dosages chart). So this one seems potent and starting at 120 ugs it looks like a winner.

Also, the effects he describes at this dose aren't so long lasting. I'd give you his trip report but it's in Spanish.

I'm sure someone around here can translate

 

[Shakti]

I just wondered if any actual analysis had been done on the samples of DOB-Dragonfly to support the different isomer thing. I have a feeling the less potent batch was just impure or was something else.

That's quite possible. I don't know the answer.

 

[moniorojo]

I'm sure someone around here can translate

It lasted 6 hours (with some after effects that wouldn't let him sleep, there might be some tolerance to phens)
30 mins after ingestions: pleasure similar to low dose triptamine, feel alright.
45: Feel incredibly well. An amphetamine touch with triptamine euphoria. Feel like god. Previous anxiety towards the substance has gone.
1h30: Still feel great. Laughter. Nice talking on the phone to friends.
2h: If heaven exists its name is BDF. Colours intensified. Cry of happiness.
2h30: Slight nausea but still alright. Light can nag a little. Slight space distortions. Difficulty typing.
3h: Strong space distortions. Slight fractal visuals with eyes closed. Music sounds great.
3h20: Light starts to be annoying. Leave only 4 small lightbulbs on.
4h: Effects start to decline slightly.
4h30:I can still feel it clearly.
5h: Sleepy but decide not to go to bed in order to continue enjoying the substance. Music and thoughts flowing.
5h30: Weak Effects. Go to bed.
6h: Difficulty sleeping.

Pulse and arterial preasure well throughout the experiment.

 

[swilow]

I'd agree that in the grand scheme of things such as international relations the deaths of a few reckless drug fiends isn't going to even ripple the surface - unless it's some high ranking politicians offspring that was so unlucky.

I can't wait to try the B9 batch :D

No seriously, I agree- its unfortunate and sad that individals have died (RIP)- we are very low on the radar of the powers-that-be. I just hope some sort of indivudal morality doesn't allow this shit to happen again, because I don't think any of those so-called powers really care.

 

[Snapinho]

It lasted 6 hours (with some after effects that wouldn't let him sleep, there might be some tolerance to phens)
30 mins after ingestions: pleasure similar to low dose triptamine, feel alright.
45: Feel incredibly well. An amphetamine touch with triptamine euphoria. Feel like god. Previous anxiety towards the substance has gone.
1h30: Still feel great. Laughter. Nice talking on the phone to friends.
2h: If heaven exists its name is BDF. Colours intensified. Cry of happiness.
2h30: Slight nausea but still alright. Light can nag a little. Slight space distortions. Difficulty typing.
3h: Strong space distortions. Slight fractal visuals with eyes closed. Music sounds great.
3h20: Light starts to be annoying. Leave only 4 small lightbulbs on.
4h: Effects start to decline slightly.
4h30:I can still feel it clearly.
5h: Sleepy but decide not to go to bed in order to continue enjoying the substance. Music and thoughts flowing.
5h30: Weak Effects. Go to bed.
6h: Difficulty sleeping.

Pulse and arterial preasure well throughout the experiment.

That's so odd. I remember that about two years ago there were 2 batches of BDF going around; you needed only 400 ug. from the so-called 'European' batch for a good trip, and about 1000 ug (1 mg for you dummies out there) from the 'American' batch for a similar dose. Both amounts led to equally long trips, iirc; at least over 10 hours, and for me it was hard to sleep after 12 to 14 hours post ingestion.

And now we have someone that took 120 ug. and apparently had an excellent trip and could sleep at almost half the time it took most users to go to sleep.

If so, then BDF truly gives new meaning to the 'your mileage may vary' paradigm.

 

[joanmiro]

I can't believe after all that's happened people find it worthwhile or desirable to experiment with this stuff, especially when there are so many better and safer compounds out there.

 

[Snapinho]

i can't believe after all that's happened people find it worthwhile or desirable to experiment with this stuff, especially when there are so many better and safer compounds out there.

+23

 

[Snapinho]

I received this morning the graphics of the GC/MS from Energycotnrol:

The result of the batch "b1" from HaputRC is: bromodragonfly=95% & derivates (synth-subproducts) <5%

here we go:



The best think you can do with this batch is throw it to trash.

Just out of curiosity... why can't I find this same graph on the site of Energy Control?

 

[moniorojo]

I can't believe after all that's happened people find it worthwhile or desirable to experiment with this stuff, especially when there are so many better and safer compounds out there.

I don't see it that way. NOW that it has been analyzed. Now that we know what it is. Now that we know the starting dose. Now is the time to give it a try. It was before that it was not recomendable. I think it is clear that from now on, having a RC before sending the product to a lab to asure what it is will not be recomendable.

 

[iom]

I can't believe after all that's happened people find it worthwhile or desirable to experiment with this stuff, especially when there are so many better and safer compounds out there.

I respect that you survived a close encounter with this compound, and I also acknowledge that, from a harm reduction standpoint and given that at least two have lost their lives with this stuff, people really shouldn't be messing with it.

On the other hand, to say there are better and safer compounds misses an important point. The doses involved in these unfortunate incidents were far above what would be recommended, had the material been properly identified. Similar situations could arise if e.g., DOI were distributed as 2C-I, DOM were distributed as 2-CD, or 2C-E were distributed as Mescaline. Speaking of such things, Mescaline may have a *lower* margin of safety than BDRFLY (at least, that's what animal studies suggest), but we don't think of Mescaline as being unsafe, in part because obtaining and consuming toxic quantities is rather difficult.

What makes B-DFLY particularly dangerous (though ironically LSD shares this property) is its extreme potency. There are very few *poisons* that are this potent. Compare B-DFLY to infamous things like strychnine (LD50 ~10mg) or cyanide (LD50 ~100mg). As such, all research materials whose identity is in any way uncertain should be handled as though they are extremely toxic. This means one working with them should be absolutely meticulous and take all available precautions.

These include: working in areas without drafts that can lift powder particles into the air; not working in areas where food is also handled; thoroughly cleaning all utensils used and surfaces surrounding the work area afterwards; washing one's hands well with soap before touching any part of the body or anything else for that matter; and, never ingesting any unmeasured amount of powder residue, especially if any clumps (regardless of size) are present. Never forget that substantial amounts of chemical may also be absorbed directly through the skin!

If one intends to ingest the material, one should not do so until the material to be ingested has been accurately weighed or diluted suitably (with liquid not inert powder, and be absolutely certain that it dissolves completely!), and then only at quantities of a tenth of a milligram or less. Let's just hope a chemical supplier doesn't confuse 2CB-FLY with botulism toxin or dimethyl mercury anytime in the near future...

 

[moniorojo]

On the other hand, to say there are better and safer compounds misses an important point. The doses involved in these unfortunate incidents were far above what would be recommended, had the material been properly identified. Similar situations could arise if e.g., DOI were distributed as 2C-I, DOM were distributed as 2-CD, or 2C-E were distributed as Mescaline. Speaking of such things, Mescaline may have a *lower* margin of safety than BDRFLY (at least, that's what animal studies suggest), but we don't think of Mescaline as being unsafe, in part because obtaining and consuming toxic quantities is rather difficult.

Agreed.
The deaths if I remember well: 10 and 18 mgs. That's 100-180 times 100 ugs.
What would happen if someone had 100-180 times a low dose of 2c-e?!
One of the hospitalizations was for 4 mgs. That's 40 times 100 ugs...

 

[Somapolis]

It lasted 6 hours (with some after effects that wouldn't let him sleep, there might be some tolerance to phens)
30 mins after ingestions: pleasure similar to low dose triptamine, feel alright.
45: Feel incredibly well. An amphetamine touch with triptamine euphoria. Feel like god. Previous anxiety towards the substance has gone.
1h30: Still feel great. Laughter. Nice talking on the phone to friends.
2h: If heaven exists its name is BDF. Colours intensified. Cry of happiness.
2h30: Slight nausea but still alright. Light can nag a little. Slight space distortions. Difficulty typing.
3h: Strong space distortions. Slight fractal visuals with eyes closed. Music sounds great.
3h20: Light starts to be annoying. Leave only 4 small lightbulbs on.
4h: Effects start to decline slightly.
4h30:I can still feel it clearly.
5h: Sleepy but decide not to go to bed in order to continue enjoying the substance. Music and thoughts flowing.
5h30: Weak Effects. Go to bed.
6h: Difficulty sleeping.

Pulse and arterial preasure well throughout the experiment.

That doesn't sound like Bromo-dragonfly at all. The time for onset and the duration overall is totally wrong.

 

[vidaverde]

still cant believe yall are trying this. you have no idea what the long term effects could be.

seriously, you must be down right stupid to experiment with your life.
you do have a death wish.

let the experts figure this out. you obviously have no idea how to think logically much less comprehend what is going on here.

all drugs should be taken away from you.
forever, dude.

I just hope nobody else is as dumb and everyone stays away to prevent any further incidents like the deaths and hospitalizations resulting from this poison.

 

[joanmiro]

What makes B-DFLY particularly dangerous (though ironically LSD shares this property) is its extreme potency. There are very few *poisons* that are this potent. Compare B-DFLY to infamous things like strychnine (LD50 ~10mg) or cyanide (LD50 ~100mg). As such, all research materials whose identity is in any way uncertain should be handled as though they are extremely toxic. This means one working with them should be absolutely meticulous and take all available precautions.

Yes, but the thing is, LSD is completely benign physically. Bromo-dragonfly is far from it, as the deadly experiences we have seen occur demonstrate. Further, its potency in comparison with more "traditional" poisons simply exhibits that it is unfit for recreational human use.

That doesn't sound like Bromo-dragonfly at all. The time for onset and the duration overall is totally wrong.

I agree. For me things didn't start getting real bad until the 5-6 hour range.

 

[joanmiro]

I just hope nobody else is as dumb and everyone stays away to prevent any further incidents like the deaths and hospitalizations resulting from this poison.

VidaVerde is right...this stuff is poison (as demonstrated by iom's post and real life events...)

Just because you can get high and trip off a miniscule amount doesn't make it any less lethal or poisonous.

And the hospitalizations at 1 milligram should keep any sane person away from the stuff.

 

[EntheoDjinn]

Sounds worse than Datura - and people still want to do it.

Serious question below, related I think to this post in that it might bring out some important, hitherto undebated harm reduction dialogue.

"To those who still want to try this substance, albeit cautiously, what are the redeeming qualities that you seem to think can be utilised, enjoyed or whatever, (apart from the adrenalin rush or extreme ego trip sometimes afforded to those brave creatures who engage in high risk behaviour)? Rights of passage, self-development by ordeal? Be very interesting to know "

E

p.s. Mods - I hope this isn't insensitive given the context of death and other seriously traumatic experiences. Please dump or move to an appropriate thread if you feel it is.

 

[SKL]

Sounds worse than Datura - and people still want to do it.

Serious question below, related I think to this post in that it might bring out some important, hitherto undebated harm reduction dialogue.

"To those who still want to try this substance, albeit cautiously, what are the redeeming qualities that you seem to think can be utilised, enjoyed or whatever, (apart from the adrenalin rush or extreme ego trip sometimes afforded to those brave creatures who engage in high risk behaviour)? Rights of passage, self-development by ordeal? Be very interesting to know "

E

p.s. Mods - I hope this isn't insensitive given the context of death and other seriously traumatic experiences. Please dump or move to an appropriate thread if you feel it is.

best post so far since the GC/MS results

to evreyone who's trying to figure out how to trip on this shit, I really don't get it. for the love of God.

is it an ego trip? an elitist thing? i get as much of a kick out of being on the cutting edge as anyone, but that's just sick.

really, dudes, are you that broke that $100 worth of drugs is a big loss? if so, you probably shouldn't be spending your hard earned money on drugs. pay your energy bill or something. this shit is killing people, toss it out.

or better yet, get it analyzed, contribute to the safety and knowledge of the scene, and not satisfying your own ego and hunger for altered states.

and seriously, how morbid would it be to trip on a substance that's killing people and has the potential to fuck up an already-fragile scene's delicate ecosystem? and how irresponsible? and how disrespectful to the memory of the dead?

there's so much wrong with this behavior, and about perseverating on it on the message board.

let's keep this about reducing drug-related harm, not promoting it. if you want Br-DFLY, it circulates, what you have now is a big question mark. if it winds up being Br-DFLY, then we already know what it is, and the information is elsewhere, so stop hijacking this thread about your efforts to salvage a trip out of a tragedy with considerable human cost. but it's not, and it's my hunch that this story isn't over.

so let's get this back on topic.

 

[moniorojo]

I really don't get it either. Substances don't kill people. Substances have no will to kill or to do anything. Several mistakes by several human beings in China, Denmark and the ones who DECIDED to get the untested substance into their bodies did the killing. These are the irresponsible, disrespectful with both living and dead who "fuck up an already-fragile scene's delicate ecosystem". Not my friend who: knowing the lab results decided to accurately measure a reasonable dose and ingest it.
This is really disappointing. I thought this was a first class drug forum. I'm sorry people died. I'm sorry people ended up in hospital. But BDF is not to blame. People with names and surnames are to blame. I won't bother anymore with this thread. Blame me all you want for speaking my mind. I thought this place was all about speaking our minds.

 

[swilow]

I don't see it that way. NOW that it has been analyzed. Now that we know what it is. Now that we know the starting dose. .

Correction; you know what was analysed and nothing more; unless you analysed your own goods . Out of respect for the dead who died guinea pigging this (and distatste for the lab behind the synth), this stuff should be destroyed, and not through metabolism.

On the other hand, people wll shoot up bad batches of heroin in full knowledge....fortunately no psychedelics have such a pull to them, and CAN and SHOULD be discarded when they cause trouble.

Personally- I ain't gonna trust a thing obtained from any vendor over the last 2-3months; simply not worth it.

 

[iom]

Yes, but the thing is, LSD is completely benign physically. Bromo-dragonfly is far from it, as the deadly experiences we have seen occur demonstrate. Further, its potency in comparison with more "traditional" poisons simply exhibits that it is unfit for recreational human use.

LSD is NOT physically benign. Its negative physiological effects increase with dosage as with any substance. See: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

Please read the abstracts and note that LSD has been cited as a cause of death more than once and that the symptoms accompanying overdose are strikingly similar to those described by you concerning your bromo-dragonfly overdose: hyperthermia, tachycardia, flushing, and heavy perspiration, etc.

One of the articles listed describes a series of overdoses resulting from another drug misidentification: namely LSD was confused as being cocaine.

I have no doubt that if LSD were widely distributed as a pure powder and mislabeled as was the case with the bromo-dragonfly, a lot more people would suffer similar fates.