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☠ WARNING ☠ *WARNING* Chronic ketamine/dissociative use causes bladder/organ damage

Willpower is a meaningless and useless word in these contexts. If people lack willpower it's often very unclear how to get more of it, and those who appear externally to have a noticeably high level of willpower are essentially incapable of communicating why this is, or even truly relating to those sufferring from a lack of willpower.

Willpower can make one ignorant or dismissive of more repeatable, explicable strategies for altering behaviour, that are more explicit than "have more willpower". Equally, those who appear to do things through willpower will often have actually chanced upon certain strategies (whether observable or purely cognitive) that make changing behaviours, even deeply ingrained ones resulting from addiction, far easier than would be the case without these strategies - which may be subtle, unconscious, or just so natural to certain individuals that they are not even able to observe that anything is happening beyond exercise of willpower.

Actually, it's debatable if willpower even exists as anything but that, in all contexts - an umbrella term for multiple modes of cognition that we cannot easily understand, but which appear to have powerful utility - IMO. Either way though, nothing is ever all about willpower.
 
Willpower is a meaningless and useless word in these contexts. If people lack willpower it's often very unclear how to get more of it, and those who appear externally to have a noticeably high level of willpower are essentially incapable of communicating why this is, or even truly relating to those sufferring from a lack of willpower.

Willpower can make one ignorant or dismissive of more repeatable, explicable strategies for altering behaviour, that are more explicit than "have more willpower". Equally, those who appear to do things through willpower will often have actually chanced upon certain strategies (whether observable or purely cognitive) that make changing behaviours, even deeply ingrained ones resulting from addiction, far easier than would be the case without these strategies - which may be subtle, unconscious, or just so natural to certain individuals that they are not even able to observe that anything is happening beyond exercise of willpower.

Actually, it's debatable if willpower even exists as anything but that, in all contexts - an umbrella term for multiple modes of cognition that we cannot easily understand, but which appear to have powerful utility - IMO. Either way though, nothing is ever all about willpower.
Great post, basicly what i said but alot better formulated

Maybe we could share some strategies that has helped us here.
Both short term to get out of the habit(daily, weekly or whatever loop that the person sharing was stuck in)

Becauce for me Ket has never been close to a daily thing.
Usually i rarely do it more then 2-3days, partially because tolerance.
But mostly because the physical side effects are way heavy for it to be worth whatever rush or relief it gives.
So def not something i can abuse and be functional.
My biggest issue has always been that i do it a few times and then get out.
But after a few weeks or sometimes months i get back into the habit.
 
I can't find the thread where I wanted to mention this in, but Solidago tea is what gives my kidneys a warm treat.

It messes with the cognitive effects of the ketamine, so beware, you could do something stupid on the combo.

But goldenrod is probably something that should be known for health effects and harm reduction over here.
 
A rapper once took tons of Mescaline and PCP and was throwing up blood daily couldn't eat whole meals without puking blood he went to the doctor and the doc he said "You have to honest with me if you want me to help you" he was lying all along so he finally said "bags of mescaline" he had miniature ulcer from eating Mescaline even though it's badass it can really do a number on you. Just an HR tip or for anybody in general. Rock on Folks!
 
Havent done much K for the last few months, did a little in december and a few g's last weekend.

However it seems like the physical side effects are way harder on me nowadays.
Not sure if its the specific batch or some kind of immune response/organ issues.

Usually im a bit off a day or two with shitty appetite and some lethargy.
But this time i was basicly bed ridden for almost 2days after my last dose.
Barely had energy to even get fluids and barely ate sunday/monday.

Probably a good thing since im trying to not dabble with it at all tbh.
But it kind of just popped up on saturday and i was home alone so went for it.

Hopefully i can stay strong now and keep away from any stupid situations.
Honestly the only thing i enjoy with K nowadays is to immerse myself in movies and series.
Have a hard time enjoying those sober or other drugs except oxy or superhigh dose of edible thc.
And im on a long break from thc atm and dont want to take oxy's on a regular basis.
 
Read thru this thread as I now have access to Ketamine. I did see some speculation early on in thread that because Lilly and those guys injected that maybe snorting is the issue but it seems IV is also a risk:

"Almost all of the available literature on this topic involves ketamine abusers, with a single case report documenting a pediatric patient who developed cystitis while taking ketamine chronically for pain"

Pretty sure that kid wasn't snorting it.

I'm going to attempt to keep my usage infrequent. And stop if I get any signs of trouble. Its seems to mostly be in heavy users.
 
Read thru this thread as I now have access to Ketamine. I did see some speculation early on in thread that because Lilly and those guys injected that maybe snorting is the issue but it seems IV is also a risk:

"Almost all of the available literature on this topic involves ketamine abusers, with a single case report documenting a pediatric patient who developed cystitis while taking ketamine chronically for pain"

Pretty sure that kid wasn't snorting it.

I'm going to attempt to keep my usage infrequent. And stop if I get any signs of trouble. Its seems to mostly be in heavy users.
it can happen via snorting, heavy usage of every weekend will lead to eventual bladder problems, say consuming over 8-10 grams a month.
 
Yes, and and it happens with injection, not to repeat myself, but I guess I have to.
There was speculation earlier in this thread that snorting ROA was cause, because this stuff didnt happen to john lilly who injected it. I am pointing to confirmed case of someone who got it via the IV route. And it has nothing to do with poor quality black market product if it happens with pharmaceutical grade, which was also speculation earlier in this thread.
 
I was told any 'drip' that comes into the throat must be expelled immediately or it can cause STI if swallowed. Is this accurate
 
it can happen via snorting, heavy usage of every weekend will lead to eventual bladder problems, say consuming over 8-10 grams a month.
What about spreading 1 g over six weeks can that be problematic? I used to rave and do a g in a night. Haven’t done that in years, but lately I did a gram over about six weeks for therapy. Can these lower doses be harmful?
 
I still don’t get it

I used to go to raves and would do a few vials a night. Back then each vial was half a gram.

I never had issues. I took breaks

Then after a decade I grabbed 1.2 g and spread it out over 6 weeks. I was taking it for depression. So I never actually had a major hole during this period

Is usage this slow dangerous? What is more dangerous taking high amounts once and then not doing it again like when I used to party or spreading it out like I did last time
 
Can these lower doses be harmful?
They  can be harmful in very sensitive individuals, probably, but for most people they won't be. In answer to your other question about what's more harmful, binging a few grams in a single night every six weeks or taking a few grams over 6 weeks then definitely the binge method is more harmful. Not everyone who develops bladder problems was ever a daily user, many of them (like myself, although mercifully my own issues did not appear to be permanent) were occasional weekend bingers.

It's like almost any drug really, taking lower amounts over a longer period of time is less of a shock to the system than just blasting your body and brain with a massive dose in a short time... maybe there are some exceptions but I can't think of any right now.

Personally spreading 1-2g over 6 weeks is wild to me, years and years ago I remember getting 3.5g and just doing it on the weekends over 5 or 6 weeks, nowadays if that lasted me more than 2 days it would be an achievement honestly. 😅

Probably though a big part of the reason 3.5g lasted me so long ages ago is still just coz I had to work in the week and was too busy generally to be getting spangled in the evenings on weekdays, coz even then technically I was still a weekend binger even though I remember those days being a lot more calm and low-key than later times. And actually pretty quickly I remember when I had a week off or so, usually just before Christmas when I'd go stay with family and such, I'd be planning myself a lil K holiday, pick up 7-10g and just go ham for 5 days at least or however long I knew I just had a bit of time in between all the responsibilities of adulting.

So yeah... if that's not something you identify with, I really don't think you're at risk.
 
They  can be harmful in very sensitive individuals, probably, but for most people they won't be. In answer to your other question about what's more harmful, binging a few grams in a single night every six weeks or taking a few grams over 6 weeks then definitely the binge method is more harmful. Not everyone who develops bladder problems was ever a daily user, many of them (like myself, although mercifully my own issues did not appear to be permanent) were occasional weekend bingers.

It's like almost any drug really, taking lower amounts over a longer period of time is less of a shock to the system than just blasting your body and brain with a massive dose in a short time... maybe there are some exceptions but I can't think of any right now.

Personally spreading 1-2g over 6 weeks is wild to me, years and years ago I remember getting 3.5g and just doing it on the weekends over 5 or 6 weeks, nowadays if that lasted me more than 2 days it would be an achievement honestly. 😅

Probably though a big part of the reason 3.5g lasted me so long ages ago is still just coz I had to work in the week and was too busy generally to be getting spangled in the evenings on weekdays, coz even then technically I was still a weekend binger even though I remember those days being a lot more calm and low-key than later times. And actually pretty quickly I remember when I had a week off or so, usually just before Christmas when I'd go stay with family and such, I'd be planning myself a lil K holiday, pick up 7-10g and just go ham for 5 days at least or however long I knew I just had a bit of time in between all the responsibilities of adulting.

So yeah... if that's not something you identify with, I really don't think you're at risk.
Oh don’t feel bad.

I can and always could easily control my use of coke or meth or K

But, I have been on Opioids and Benzodiazepines everyday since 1999.

Last 11years Suboxone and Xanax

:)
 
There may not be enough research done for a proper answer, but does anybody have experience with DMXE causing the same thing?
 
There may not be enough research done for a proper answer, but does anybody have experience with DMXE causing the same thing?
There's not a lot of research on the subject, but based on what we know about MXE and ketamine it is likely DMXE carries a risk of such in between that of MXE and ketamine. Would have to be pretty often and heavy use though.
 
EDIT: The first thing I want to add to this thread is that if you have any odd sensation whatsoever in your bladder, difficulty with strong stream, or pressure. STOP YOU ARE LIKELY DOING PERMANENT DAMAGE

2nd: If you are having pain, the most important thing to halt it is to switch to this diet linked below. You will only get worse if you keep eating caustic foods and already have an issue.


For those "wondering" if its just ketamine or other dissociatives, here is a paper documenting the same effects from MXE (in rats)


Damage to the ureter and kideny:


"51% of patients with ketamine-induced urinary symptoms had unilateral or bilateral hydronephrosis "
"hydronephrosis was accompanied by varying degrees of ureteral lesions, ureteral wall thickening, ureteral stenosis, or vesicoureteric reflux."
"one patient who continued to abuse ketamine ended up with gross bilateral hydronephrosis and acute renal failure "


Ketamine damages the billary tract:


Chronic biliary colic associated with ketamine abuse - NCBI


Clinical use of Ketamine for chronic pain results in liver injury:



Possible link between ketamine and bladder cancer (rodent study)


" In the present study, bladders of ketamine-treated mice exhibited squamous cell metaplasia following 12 weeks of treatment, leading to the hypothesis that long-term ketamine abuse may eventually contribute to the development of bladder cancer; however, whether ketamine abuse would eventually result in the development of bladder cancer is unknown and long-term follow-up studies are required. "

BL user thread chronicling bladder damage from K: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/threads/why-you-shouldnt-abuse-ketamine-nsfw-photos.895520/



I am aware of one former member who was killed from organ damage bile duct cancer which we all seem to agree is likely due to his super heavy disso use. sporadic dissociative use over the past 3 years or so did more damage to my body than 5 years of slamming heroin 2-5 times per day and smoking crack daily when i was younger.
Which diet are you referring to here? The link doesn't work anymore...
 
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