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Opioids Want to try Subs for the first time

buttershots21

buttershots21

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
161
Location
Michigan
I currently take 120mg oxycodone/APAP a day or 120mg morphine a day to feel normal with a slight feel good to go along with it. How much sub would I have to take to kill pain, not have withdrawals, and to feel good? I hope it's not a crazy amount. I got a hold of some 8mg tablets. Will that be enough? The Sub thread has lots of great information, but nothing this specific that I could find to tailor to my needs.
 
If you are just trying to feel normal start out really low, like 1mg, and go from there. Don't try to chase a high on it, take it, see how much you need to feel normal.

Sub is grossly over prescribed imo, and Dr's like to prescribe amounts like 16mg, etc. Ridiculous.
 
I was on about the same dose as you and just started subs today. My doctor gave me 2mg to start and told me to wait about 30 min and take another 2g if needed and so on... I got up to 8mg and am feeling totally normal. I waited 20 hours after my last dose of oxy and was just starting to feel WDs. I feel just totally normal, it's great.
 
Obscure:

How did you take them, sublingually I'm assuming. If so it usually can have a longer onset than 30 minutes. You can likely lower your dose, and still feel fine.
 
I plan on snorting them, so would I still do 2mgs at a time that way, or would 1mg bumps be best? Feeling normal with no pain is my goal, but after being on "regular" opiates for so long, is it even possible to catch a buzz with these? Is it safe to do so? Do I have to fear ODing on these? From everything I've heard they are very powerful and i don't want to hurt myself by doing this. My goal is to use these to maintain while I'm out of my regular opiates.
 
Roughly half the dose you take sublinqual is the dose you should take sniffing to be equal.

I usually find it's 30, 70, 100 percent for sublingual, sniffing, injecting respectively.

It's possible to catch somewhat of a buzz, but don't bother it'll be easier that way. There is a ceiling effect, anymore of 32mg won't do anything, and even reaching that dose is pretty crazy. If you are not opiate naive I wouldn't worry about od'ing from subs
 
Using it on and off to prevent dopesickness is no big deal, but please don't get on Suboxone Maintenance with a small habit like that.

And I'm not sure if Suboxone is as good of a pain reliever as full agonists, especially at doses where Norbuprenorphine is antagonized by Bupe. To prevent this, stick to small doses (less than 1-2mg sublingual, not sure how much insufflated, probably <0.5-1mg), and the Norbupe won't be affected, and the subs will basically act as a prodrug to a full agonist, Norbupe.
 
with that kinda tolerance i cant see u overdosing on subs. but yea start at a mg, see from there. careful tho- takes a couple hour to reach its peak effect IMO so u dont wanna do like... 3 1mg bumps in the first half hour cuz u dont feel better yet
 
Considering you have a moderate opiate tolerance, subs are not going to do jack shit for you.

Will they hold you? Yes..they will keep you out of withdrawals. You could probably get by with around 2-3mg bupe daily. Will they kill pain? Absolutely not. Will they make you feel good? If by good you mean high? Absolutely not.

Bupe is a partial agonist.

The only way it would encompass the qualities you desire is if you had zero opiate tolerance, and were dosing <1mg doses. It will get someone with no opiate tolerance high..and even have pain killing effects. Being a partial agonist, if doses/tolerance is not kept EXTREMELY low, these qualities go away.

For someone like you, with a moderate opiate tolerance, you can not expect to get anything more than relief from wtihdrawals. If you need a long lasting opiate to use for maint. and need something that will kill pain and make you feel good, methadone is a better choice than bupe. However, I do not recommend getting on methadone maint.
 
buttershots21 said:
I currently take 120mg oxycodone/APAP a day or 120mg morphine a day to feel normal with a slight feel good to go along with it. How much sub would I have to take to kill pain, not have withdrawals, and to feel good? I hope it's not a crazy amount. I got a hold of some 8mg tablets. Will that be enough? The Sub thread has lots of great information, but nothing this specific that I could find to tailor to my needs.
Click to expand...

if your attempting to still get high and "feel good", i don't think you are ready for subs yet. Subs are meant to just make you feel normal, without getting you high, and it has a super long half life so you don't get withdrawals at the end of every day, or every morning or whatever.

If you wanna rid yourself of your opiate addiction, you gotta really have your mindset on a sober life. Think of all that money you'll save, and you will finally feel good again just from eating right and living life! not some silly pill.

Essentially, getting on suboxone or chemical name bubrenorphine before you are ready to quit, and abusing it, is just gonna leave you with MUCH worse withdrawals that drag on because of the long half life. The idea of a suboxone maintence program is to just take enough that you feel *okay* during the day, and by okay i just mean relatively withdrawal free, not kinda high! And then slowly taper off, so you can have a much easier or at least milder detox and experience much less servere physical withdrawal, rather then what you would experience if you were just to quit cold turkey.
 
The ammount of buprenorphine that would be needed to keep someone with a tolerance such as yourself out of withdrawals is really impossible to say, but like other Bluelighters have posted, it's best to start off low (with anything) and work your way up. Many people find that with suboxone or subutex that less is more. Dosages beyond 16mg offten just increase negative side effects, though everyone is different. Buprenorphine is a very potent opioid, even if it is a partial-agonist, that being said, it is very hard to overdose on it alone, though be extremely cautious about mixing it with other CNS depressants.

The BA for the different routes of administration are roughly:
Sublingual-30%
Nasal-50%
Rectal-54%
Oral-10%
 
LeLouche:

I took all the doses SL. And yeah, I can probably make due on a lower dosage. I'm just getting to know this new substance and what it's all about.
First impressions are that it's a wonder drug, totally took away my WDs at such a low dose and made me feel great; not just normal, but really really good. Like I was on a low of dose of oxy and adderall. Just tops. Does nothing for pain relief or for getting high. It just makes me able to function very well.

@ the OP, being in a similar situation; start at 2mg and see how you feel. Do more if you need it. It lasts a long time and don't over do it, but I wouldn't worry about OD at the doses required to keep you well. I wound up doing 20mg today, just feeling it out, and I'm fine, I'm great in fact. Subs and I just became best friends.
 
My whole problem is trying to avoid WD's while being able to present my new pain clinic with an appropriate pill count for my scripts as they have told me I have to bring in all my current medications, and I'm not dumb, pretty sure they will do a count! I was hoping Subs would get me through so I could leave my scripts alone for a couple weeks. But I have to have pain relief and I can't afford to feel like shit right now from WD's. God what a hole:( I know a lot of you have habits that make mine seem tame, but I remember when a 5/500 vicodin would have me in the clouds for hours. And since these Subs are affordable, and at 8mgs each, if I only have to take 2mgs to function, that is the best deal around. My only other options are to quit or to drain my bank account to get pills to supplement and I'm pretty freaking broke right now as it is.
 
Znegative said:
The ammount of buprenorphine that would be needed to keep someone with a tolerance such as yourself out of withdrawals is really impossible to say, but like other Bluelighters have posted, it's best to start off low (with anything) and work your way up. Many people find that with suboxone or subutex that less is more. Dosages beyond 16mg offten just increase negative side effects, though everyone is different. Buprenorphine is a very potent opioid, even if it is a partial-agonist, that being said, it is very hard to overdose on it alone, though be extremely cautious about mixing it with other CNS depressants.

The BA for the different routes of administration are roughly:
Sublingual-30%
Nasal-50%
Rectal-54%
Oral-10%
Click to expand...
The only other meds I take right now are Cymbalta, Neurontin, and Zanaflex. I hope there would be no interactions between the two. I try to be cautious, and even though I have an anxiety disorder, I rarely take benzos because I know of the real danger of falling asleep and not waking up. I love my kids way too much to take that kind of risk, when I know that some deep breathing exersises and some visualization will check most panic attacks. I just wish that was as effective for pain relief. The only pain relief I can get is from the Neurontin (though it makes me loopy as hell and I don't like it at all) and the narcotics. Swimming helps a lot, but an hour out of the water and I'm right back up there again.
 
Subs will work for you, but you have to be a little clean before you go on them. I did my first dose today after 20 hours of oxy and I was in the clear. It totally took away the beginnings of WD. If you want to use subs as a range extender for your other meds, then just make sure you're good and clean before you dose and then take it easy. Do enough and not more. I would have been fine with 4mg today, my first day, but I did more because I wanted to know more about it. Subs, and I'm an FNG here, are amazing so far. They can really help you out, but I don't think they will help your pain. I work a very physical job, and with my injuries, my feet and back hurt pretty bad at the end of my shift. Subuxone did nothing to curtail that, but I wasn't dopesick, I wasn't twitching and sweating, nor was I nodding.

If you need pain meds for legitimate use and you're just not getting enough to fulfill your needs, then obviously try to get more, but if you can't, and I've been there, subs can afford you the opportunity to avoid WDs while you're using other opiates. I hope that kind of answers your questions.
 
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