Gabapentinoids Want to take phenibut tonight after not taking it in like a year, simply because I'm out of Gabapentin and find that kava doesn't hit as well w/o it

[BourbonMac]

My script ran out for gabapentin and my doctor, as usual completely ignored it. I was fortunate enough to not really have withdrawals last night, it's refillable Sunday but he isn't in until Monday. He insists on 300 twice a day but I've realized 300 3x a day is very beneficial for my depression, so I really don't understand why he's pulling this. I want to get off Valium soon because kava has proved to be so much better, and gabapentin helps with my depression so much. Naturally I'll go some days without taking it to actually get high but much of the time that "high" is just me feeling normal, which I think is my why standards for gabapentin are far lower than the average person who takes it.

Anyway, from what I've heard, phenibut is actually much weaker despite being a more potent high and directly attaching to GABA-B. What other drugs hit GABA-B? I know kava and benzos hit GABA-A. Gabapentin has only a weak affinity to both. I don't know if phenibut binds to GABA-A.

Regardless 1.2g of this used to fuck me up bad. I don't want to get fucked up bad like that, but I'd like a dose that feels something like 900mg of Gabapentin with not a high tolerance. Do you think 600mg would do the trick, or would it just not feel the same in any way? The last time I took it, I took a gram on top of 2800mg Gabapentin as I was leaving the midwest because I was so suicidally depressed and was desperate for a pick-me-up. This proved too much though, the phenibut freaked me out to the point where I had to smoke DMT to calm down because yeah, DMT actually helps me with anxiety and such, and depression a lot too. I felt hungover as hell but I'd also stayed up all night pretty much.

Every other time I took pheni I felt good but sometimes the come-up was uncomfortable. High dose Gabapentin can be like that for me too, I call them the gaba giddies, I feel this constant need to be moving around. I really wish I had Gabapentin because I like it so much more than phenibut. But yeah, do you think 600mg of this would feel similar to 900mg gabapentin? Since 1.2g was enough to be overwhelmed, let alone a gram (the gabapentin I took on top of it probably had an impact but I had a very high tolerance at the time), I'd expect to just feel pretty good in general but I also know it takes forever to kick in. They say 3 hours after a meal right? It generally took 3 hours to kick in on an empty stomach. I had a light dinner that I finished like 30 minutes ago.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

phenibut also hits GABA A at high doses, and that is what attributes to most of it's recreational potential... in my experience/opinion

 

[BourbonMac]

So at 600mg it would likely have a weak affinity to GABA-A like Gabapentin then right?
I'm not sure what's considered a high dose. I've heard of people needing 3g plus to feel good, 1.5g is the most I've done and it was way too much. Even 1.2g has fucked me sideways. I seem rather lightweight with gabapentinoids given I can take Gabapentin pretty regularly and still get extremely high on it, which I did 2 nights ago. I'd been taking 600mg daily and then tapered to 300mg for 2 nights, then I just said screw it and took the last 3 pills. I wish I'd waited as my micronized kava came in today, it should've came in yesterday, and micronized kava + gabapentin is one of the greatest highs I've ever felt.

 

[Jnowhere]

You ran out, that terrifies me, I have read the withdrawal horror stories. Is anything legal to fight withdrawals from it? However 600mg is just a little too light a dose. But I like it, but scared of abusing it, I use it to potentiate( mis?) My other scripts. Anything legal that would fight withdrawals, in case of my own carelessness?

 

[BourbonMac]

I had been abusing it quite heavily which is the main reason I ran out. I was going through a horrible week and tolerance goes up fast, but then I just did 600 before bed for a week, then 300, and I'm out of withdrawal territory. Phenibut would have to be dosed very high to take care of gabapentin withdrawals as it's technically weaker but I still have yet to find out why. I've never been given a clear answer as to how a drug that fucks you up way more is weaker especially given it can fully find to GABA-B and GABA-A unlike gabapentin which barely does. I don't know if I'll even take the Phenibut or not, I thought about 900mg but I really don't want to feel too high from it and I had that acidic taste in my mouth from taking it.

 

[Jnowhere]

I had been abusing it quite heavily which is the main reason I ran out. I was going through a horrible week and tolerance goes up fast, but then I just did 600 before bed for a week, then 300, and I'm out of withdrawal territory. Phenibut would have to be dosed very high to take care of gabapentin withdrawals as it's technically weaker but I still have yet to find out why. I've never been given a clear answer as to how a drug that fucks you up way more is weaker especially given it can fully find to GABA-B and GABA-A unlike gabapentin which barely does. I don't know if I'll even take the Phenibut or not, I thought about 900mg but I really don't want to feel too high from it and I had that acidic taste in my mouth from taking it.

Thanks for the reply, I will keep that in mind about, the phenibut, and I am scared of withdrawal from gabapentin, after you get into your 40's withdrawal from anything is so much worse, not sure why weaker stuff can give better highs, all I know is gabapentin makes me hungry and it builds tolerance more than anything, I will admit too or not. Stay safe and I hope you feel better.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well I'm holding onto the bottle but I still just... I don't know. I never wanted to take this stuff again but I'm doing it simply because kava doesn't work well unless I've taken Gabapentin? At least that's how it has seemed to me in general. I should've tried tapering down to 300 sooner as I probably would've been fine after a week of 600. I was going to take 900mg phenibut but I just, Idk. I remember it feeling great and feeling addicting in the beginning but after awhile I grew to dislike the exact way it made me feel.

I don't even know if it'd make my kava work or not, and I don't know if the gabapentin thing actually matters or not because kava can simply not always work as well. I mean I might as well wait until tomorrow or something, I hate that it takes fucking hours for phenibut to kick in. It's been 3 hours since I ate a fish sandwich at BK and a few fries which is basically all I ate today besides a bowl of cereal.

After I get my next gabapentin script I'm flushing this shit down the toilet, it's just so inferior to gabapentin, and in retrospect there was never a time I wasn't taking at least 600mg Gabapentin while I was on it so I have no idea how it'd feel on its own if I felt anything at all. Like I might as well just try the kava. I'd recently thought magnesium glycinate too close to kava is why it didn't work this one time I took it without gabapentin, I think I'd been off gabapentin for a few days at that point. Kava is a mild VGCC like gabapentin and phenibut and magnesium completely kills the effects of both of these.

I remember after I came up hard on 1.2g, or right before it smacked me, I took an extra 300. Immediately went to take magnesium to make sure it wouldn't hit me and it worked. I don't understand how psychonautwiki can call 1-2g just "common." By a gram I get extremely fucking messed up. It even goes as far as calling 900mg gabapentin light. The first time I ever took it I was so fucked up it was ridiculous, and even with tolerance to 300-600, 900 can mess me up ridiculously bad. Many things on that site aren't accurate, like DOM which peaks 36 hours in. It says the stuff only lasts 16 hours. There have been people who trip for 3 days straight on it.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well I took it approx 2 hours ago, I can tell I'm beginning to feel it. That strange acidic taste is how I know. At 600mg it isn't that overwhelming though. I do kind of feel the "gaba giddies" in my legs which is surprising, this is a low dose, most people seem to say you won't even feel under 1-2g. I'd like to give it another half hour-ish to see how it goes, may repeat this tomorrow until I can get Gabapentin filled on Monday. I do recognize that this isn't the best move, 2x in a row, and I possibly won't even bother and just try my kava by itself. I think in some way, gabapentin has a cross tolerance with gabapentin given gabapentin binds to GABA-A some, as a VGCC (so is kava, which also binds to GABA-A just like benzos).

I feel kind of uncomfortable so far though. I have noted that this one time I took 2800mg of gabapentin by mistake with little tolerance. I just staggered for hours without keeping track at all. I thought I was gonna go nuts or even throw up. That's kind of how the come-up for phenibut always felt to me, overwhelming, but then it'd kinda chill out after that.

Kava alone helps great with gabapentin withdrawal, btw. May be why I didn't even have any. I plan to take a fuckload of kava tonight, and I hope the interaction with the low dose phenibut is similar to gabapentin, which, really is just allowing the kava to work better.

So while physically I feel like I'm on gabapentin, I don't have that great euphoria that comes with it. I do recall feeling immense euphoria on 1.2g of phenibut but it still just... didn't feel right, I don't know how to explain it. It's hard to imagine I ever struggled with this and was bartering with myself. Oh 2x a week? I'll take it Saturday and then Monday, and then I'd say, well Saturday was last week so I'll take it Wednesday.

Once I got into kava I realized I liked it a lot more, but gabapentin is still the GOAT. There is a "dirty" feeling going on so far. I'm a bit uplifted I suppose but I don't think any mental effects are present just yet. I do have a bit of a stomachache which I always used to and it'd make me really gassy. Very high doses of gabapentin will do the same thing. Maybe I should've taken 900, but I really didn't want to feel that full phenibut high, I just want it to be enough for my kava to work which again, I don't even know if the absence of gabapentin is at all related to why I didn't feel kava some of those nights, which was like, 2 nights. I did think, maybe I'll take another capsule at some point but nah, I'd dump half of one out if anything.

There's just this general... weirdness, I'd say I feel now. I used to consider higher doses could feel like shrooms in a way, but I feel that in a better way on gabapentin. Like things "pop out" more in my vision. I took 25mg of Valium an hour half ago which I think I'm feeling some sedation from rather than the phen but it's hard to tell. Phenibut is apparently stimulating at lower doses. It does *seem* like music is a bit different sounding, and I have felt phenibut before 3 hours before. Again I didn't have more than like, 600 calories for dinner. Normally I get a big ass pizza and stagger gabapentin until I'm 8 miles high.

 

[BourbonMac]

Wait... hold up... does phenibut make you lose your sense of smell? Because I can barely smell anything unless it's up in my face. I can't smell my kava which is intense smelling. It seems to be certain things. I can taste though.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

You say Phenibut is "weaker". You sure you're not thinking of it being weaker mg to mg? In equipotent doses maybe it would be better described as "different".
But, I dunno.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah, I made a thread last summer when I ran out of gabapentin before a road trip and brought this with me and was explained that it's a lot weaker, and I guess there are reddit threads on it too. All I know is Jesus I got fucked up, and mostly from the kava. I took so much I pissed the bed... And just woke up a little while ago, it's 5pm. It's a major diuretic, worse than alcohol or caffeine. I love kava and couldn't wait to get krunk but now I don't even wanna look at the stuff, I took so god damn much

 

[BourbonMac]

Wow I feel like total shit and have had restless legs all day, even after a lot of kratom. I don't understand why, I mean I was able to not take gabapentin for a night and survived just fine. It would've been filled today if my doctor didn't ghost me as often as he does.

 

[Jnowhere]

Wow I feel like total shit and have had restless legs all day, even after a lot of kratom. I don't understand why, I mean I was able to not take gabapentin for a night and survived just fine. It would've been filled today if my doctor didn't ghost me as often as he does.

Gabapentin is Nuertin( mis) my dad used to get it for diabetic leg neuropathy and 600mg is a low dose anyways, but I am wondering what is phenibut and is available at stores without a script. Also I tried mushroom gummies that promised a trip and was just a waste of money. My state, Michigan apparently legalized them and is cool about stuff except, they fuck with what I can get in terms of Oxycodone. My doctor would give me more, but is scared of the state and FDA. But what is phenibut, and any recommendations on mushroom gummies?

 

[Vastness]

Really surprised that you find kava to be better than valium... also really surprised you find phenibut to be weaker than gabapentin, or generally just less effective... for whatever reason I've just never really got much out of gabapentin even in high doses, whereas phenibut I did used to get a lot out of... I would think that a low to moderate dose of phenibut would be an absolutely fine and effective temporary substitute for gabapentin for the purposes you describe, though... my own GABA system must be wired differently somehow. Strangely I recently had some bromazolam which is apparently fairly selective at GABA-A and I got barely anything out of this either. Not sure what any of that means really.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well, my Valium tolerance is super high. When I was new to it I felt great, fantastic. I'd need 50mg at least now. 7.5mg used to get me so nice, so nice... But Kava euphoria is better to me quite a bit. It's just fleeting. Gabapentin high is better than Valium's high was overall to me I think

Did you stagger the Gabapentin? Probably, I mean you've been around awhile. Don't get me wrong phenibut fucks me up way, way, way harder than Gabapentin. It's MDMA and Xanax combined or something. I just like Gabapentin's high a lot more. But staggering is the key, some people say carbonated beverages with each dose and a low fat snack. I tend to take it before and after a fattening dinner, but never noticed a huge difference with how much food it was.

More the variety I suppose, half a large pizza won't work as much as breakfast I do on Thursdays. Eggs, toast, sausage and potatoes last Thursday, I was out of Gabapentin and took 900mg, was high as fuck, it really surprised me that my tolerance got that low that fast.

I think I still overall prefer kava to Valium. Boronguru is a cultivator that to me has identical effects to Valium when it was new to me. You can't gain a tolerance to kava or get withdrawals either. But extended use like mine will lead to red itchy dry skin. I've had this come and go the past 2ish months I've taken it about daily, except for times I dosed way too high and would be dead the next day usually from not sleeping. I never go to bed at a good time, I mean it's 5:46am and I'm posting baked and on some kava...

Only problem with kava is that it directly correlates to my Gabapentin tolerance (I think). I can't confirm that because I took 900mg Gabapentin tonight. I took fucking 3g last night though, which didn't even do as much as the 900 last Thursday because I'd taken doses like 1.5-2g days before. Tolerance buids really fast.

Withdrawals from Gabapentin can be terrible. For me it was just restless legs, usually the first time people are on it they can quit even high doses, and then suddenly withdrawals after. This was my experience. Gabapentin has a nicer high than Valium did when it was new to me. Lyrica would for sure work on you, hard to get a script for that though. It's just Gabapentin that you absorb 90% of and doesn't have to be staggered.

 

[Vastness]

Yeah I staggered it, usually I'd take 600mg every 2 hours or so up to, I dunno, damn high, maybe 2400mg / day or more even, weirdly I just barely feel it. Admittedly I'd already been taking phenibut maybe a little too often, 2g~ish 2-3 times a week maybe, a few months break here and there, so perhaps that fried my GABA system a little... the only time I think gabapentin maybe did something was a few years ago where I abstained from (almost) everything for a while after getting addicted to kratom, then just 150-450mg a day maybe relaxed me a little or helped with sleep, but... could also be the placebo of just taking something.

Lyrica definitely does work for me but it's a little too "messy-making" to be something I'm inclined to take very often or really even at all if I have to do anything that important.

Kava I've actually had mixed results with, one time a while back I remember finding it as good as phenibut, maybe even a bit better due to not feeling an extreme tolerance curve and also not having the same gastrointestinal effects that phenibut seems to cause with more frequent use, but other times since then it hasn't seemed to do much... possibly that can be explained with the brand, presumably some are more marketing than actual useful actives that make it into the encapsulated format (which is the only form I've ever taken it in). Even then though... I feel like a solid pharma benzo like diazepam or ideally clonazepam would blow it out of the water in terms of anxiety relief (which, admittedly, is the main reason I've ever taken any of these substances - and in retrospect even this benefit is short term and a somewhat poisoned chalice in many ways).

 

[swilow]

You can't gain a tolerance to kava or get withdrawals either

I just can't see how this is true if kava is a GABA A agonist. Honestly, the scene around kava seems really proselytisey and weird, like it's a perfectly safe answer to everything. Reminds me of the medical marijuana folks who just see it as panacea to all ills. IME, there just aren't intoxicating substances, let alone anxiolytics, that don't have a type of discontinuation syndrome, kava included.

I've used kava quite regularly in the past and felt proto GABA A withdrawal symptoms similar to very mild benzo withdrawal. Only mild and short lived, but restless muscles, waking up early, and increased anxiety. Having gone through protracted and intense benzo withdrawal in the past, I'm likely more susceptible than most, but i basically don't mess with kava at all as a result.

 

[drewbocop]

I just can't see how this is true if kava is a GABA A agonist. Honestly, the scene around kava seems really proselytisey and weird, like it's a perfectly safe answer to everything. Reminds me of the medical marijuana folks who just see it as panacea to all ills. IME, there just aren't intoxicating substances, let alone anxiolytics, that don't have a type of discontinuation syndrome, kava included.

I've used kava quite regularly in the past and felt proto GABA A withdrawal symptoms similar to very mild benzo withdrawal. Only mild and short lived, but restless muscles, waking up early, and increased anxiety. Having gone through protracted and intense benzo withdrawal in the past, I'm likely more susceptible than most, but i basically don't mess with kava at all as a result.

I think it's the same effect that the kratom userbase suffers from. They're terrified it will become controlled so they sugarcoat every aspect of it. Kava absolutely does come with withdrawal effects, especially using higher dose instant kava preparations...

 

[BourbonMac]

I think it's just not that common. I can take it in high doses for months and then stop without any issue. That tends to happen when the kani kani strikes (dermopathy). As for tolerance, you really can't build one. Why, I really have no idea. Someone once explained it to me and it's some long winded shit.

I understand how I might've come off as sugarcoating it a little too much. I don't think it binds to GABA-A quite as strong as benzos. But as far as substances go that can mimic benzos it really is something. It's the kratom subreddits and shit that particularly get super anal about stuff. They want you to believe there is no withdrawals, that it's like coffee, but it's not, and a lot of people learn the hard way. They cut out any negative posts about it, they won't even let you say it got you high or buzzed or anything, it's ridiculous. They all claim wds only happen in people who took like, 40-60 grams a day since this was often the case in the quittingkratom sub (the only sub that shows you how bad it can get for some people).

I'll never forget the first time I ran out, thinking it was no big deal, whist going through an incredibly intense time mentally. I was taking 8-10g a day and had only used daily for 4 months, not even, and at first I was just taking 4-6g a day. My withdrawals were so hellishly fucking awful that I was scraping dry kratom off index cards from the trash and licking bags. My entire body was restless, I felt like I had the flu, and that's when I realized, these people are full of shit. 2 months later, PsychedSubstance, that guy on YouTube who was making videos about it, how harmless it is, etc. makes a vid saying "I was wrong about kratom." Yeah, no shit, I found out before you did.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah I staggered it, usually I'd take 600mg every 2 hours or so up to, I dunno, damn high, maybe 2400mg / day or more even, weirdly I just barely feel it. Admittedly I'd already been taking phenibut maybe a little too often, 2g~ish 2-3 times a week maybe, a few months break here and there, so perhaps that fried my GABA system a little... the only time I think gabapentin maybe did something was a few years ago where I abstained from (almost) everything for a while after getting addicted to kratom, then just 150-450mg a day maybe relaxed me a little or helped with sleep, but... could also be the placebo of just taking something.

Lyrica definitely does work for me but it's a little too "messy-making" to be something I'm inclined to take very often or really even at all if I have to do anything that important.

Kava I've actually had mixed results with, one time a while back I remember finding it as good as phenibut, maybe even a bit better due to not feeling an extreme tolerance curve and also not having the same gastrointestinal effects that phenibut seems to cause with more frequent use, but other times since then it hasn't seemed to do much... possibly that can be explained with the brand, presumably some are more marketing than actual useful actives that make it into the encapsulated format (which is the only form I've ever taken it in). Even then though... I feel like a solid pharma benzo like diazepam or ideally clonazepam would blow it out of the water in terms of anxiety relief (which, admittedly, is the main reason I've ever taken any of these substances - and in retrospect even this benefit is short term and a somewhat poisoned chalice in many ways).

You don't mean 600mg all at once do you? Absorption decreases a lot after 300mg which is generally what you want to take, and stagger it by 30 minutes. This is the ideal way to reach one of the best highs I've ever felt. I have heard that about Lyrica, how it feels dirtier and some people prefer Gabapentin.

If you were taking 600mg all at once. You only absorb like 25% of that, whilst you absorb 60% of the 300mg. 300mg is the ideal amount because it only decreases from there. If you take 600 all at once, you barely absorb any more than 300mg. That's why the 300 every 30 minutes is ideal, and then the high comes in waves. Have had it feel intense like MDMA before, although I only did MDMA once (was also staggering a lot of Gabapentin) and smoking tons of weed, it was like the most heavenly high ever. Oh yeah and some shrooms too lol, fun times. The shrooms I couldn't feel much since I'd taken some the previous night but I could tell it was in there somewhere.