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Pharmacology Want to live longer ? Take Rapamycin.

This thread contains discussion about a Pharmacology-related topic
MedicinalUser247 said:
I was hoping that someone like you or @Skorpio could explain it because I hate doing a lot of typing.
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It’s good that you did some research and you do raise an interesting point. Rapamycin or its analogues administered under the strict supervision of a doctor could have some beneficial modulatory effects on aging related diseases, but this is still under investigation and there are many challenges such as severe and potentially life-threatening side effects.
Rapamycin works by inhibiting one of the main anabolic enzymes of the body called MTOR(mechanistic target of rapamycin). MTOR acts downstream of most if not all growth factors to promote the incorporation of nutrients into new cells or cellular material. it is most well-known for stimulating protein and lipid synthesis and it’s what bodybuilders hope to stimulate with a high protein diet and exercise. that’s because it’s one of the final effectors of muscle growth and muscle fibre expansion. however, it is also vital for immune cells to grow and become activated. for this reason, MTOR inhibitors including rapamycin are powerful immune suppressants useful for preventing organ transplant rejection. furthermore, the anti-inflammatory effect and suppression of cell growth makes wrap and useful in preventing excessive thickening of arterial walls surrounding implanted stents. when it comes to aging research which is in its early stages and full of controversy, there is a belief that pro growth signals, particularly MTOR can accelerate aging and shorten lifespan. Theories as to why this may be the case revolve around reactive oxygen species and the suppression of autophagy(degradation of unwanted protein debris by the cell) when MTOR is constantly active. there is some truth to this, as many modern lifestyle diseases such as obesity and diabetes, resulting from nutrient overload do induced tremendous near continuous MTOR Activity. nevertheless, there are many other factors involved including the toxicity of the nutrients themselves, the cell/tissue type and the specific organism.
With this in mind, some people came up with the idea that blocking MTOR activity with a small molecule like rapamycin could help delay aging and it may have worked in cell cultures. however, calorie restriction or stimulating antioxidant enzymes can do the same thing Plus as humans, we are multicellular organisms where complex cross talk between entirely different and distant tissues occurs frequently especially at the metabolic level. let’s imagine that we wanted to take rapamycin to decrease fat, something that would probably be very effective. leaving the dangers of severe immune suppression aside for a moment, it’s easy to imagine that the decreasing body fat would be something beneficial for our health. unfortunately, rapamycin is not magic and doesn’t make the calories disappear. so, if that person was to continue scoffing down high calorie food, it would just mean that the sugar, triglycerides and free fatty acids would float around in the blood instead of being stored as fat, damaging blood vessels and overloading other organs in the process. actually, one of the side effects of high dose rapamycin therapy is hyperglycaemia.
on top of that, long-term rapamycin especially in high amounts would very likely suppress muscle growth and muscle is important in protecting against metabolic diseases like diabetes, especially in the elderly.
But by far the greatest challenge to the use of MTOR inhibitors is an anti-aging therapy is immune suppression. this is by father most dangerous and life-threatening side-effect, as it entails the risk of dying from an infection which would have otherwise been mild or harmless.
In summary, taking rapamycin in the hopes of slowing aging is a bad idea and you should stay away from any doctor or medical professional offering this for that purpose. Doing it on your own without doctors supervision is a terrible idea. wouldn’t it be ironic to be successful in slowing down your body ageing process, only to die prematurely of a pretty harmless infection.
 
I do want to make clear that MTOR inhibitors like rapamycin are not bad drugs, they are important clinically relevant immuno suppressants that have saved countless lives by preventing organ transplant rejection. they are equally if not more effective and far less toxic than other immune suppressants like calcinurin inhibitors or nitrogen mustard. this should remain their primary use as suppressing the immune system is not something to be taken lightly.
I must admit, I have proposed many risky things/ideas, including the the use of dangerous drugs to improve quality of life before, but I just feel that the risk with something like this is just too much.
Bringing up ideas like this is not wrong, so long as it leads to a balanced discussion and we do our best to minimise risks.
 
I’m not sure the dose of rapamycin people take for its supposed longevity effects is similar to the immunosuppressive dose.

I don’t entirely buy that it is without long term and nuanced effects, but from what I know (which is very little), I recall one of David Sabatini’s students saying that immunosuppression isn’t an issue at that dose. The bias should be obvious there, so do with it what you will.
 
If you are interested in anti-aging I have the following document that might interest you.

Ageing, an unanswered question in the medical field, is a multifactorial process that results in a progressive functional decline in cells, tissues and organisms. Although it is impossible to prevent ageing, slowing down the rate of ageing is entirely possible to achieve. Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) is characterized by the nourishing of life and its role in anti-ageing is getting more and more attention. This article summarizes the work done on the natural products from TCM that are reported to have anti-ageing effects, in the past two decades. The effective anti-ageing ingredients identified can be generally divided into flavonoids, saponins, polysaccharides, alkaloids and others. Astragaloside, Cistanche tubulosa acteoside, icariin, tetrahydrocurcumin, quercetin, butein, berberine, catechin, curcumin, epigallocatechin gallate, gastrodin, 6-Gingerol, glaucarubinone, ginsenoside Rg1, luteolin, icarisid II, naringenin, resveratrol, theaflavin, carnosic acid, catalpol, chrysophanol, cycloastragenol, emodin, galangin, echinacoside, ferulic acid, huperzine, honokiol, isoliensinine, phycocyanin, proanthocyanidins, rosmarinic acid, oxymatrine, piceid, puerarin and salvianolic acid B are specified in this review. Simultaneously, chemical structures of the monomers with anti-ageing activities are listed, and their source, model, efficacy and mechanism are also described. The TCMs with anti-ageing function are classified according to their action pathways, including the telomere and telomerase, the sirtuins, the mammalian target of rapamycin, AMP-activated kinase and insulin/insulin-like growth factor-1 signalling pathway, free radicals scavenging and the resistance to DNA damage. Finally, Chinese compound prescription and extracts related to anti-ageing are introduced, which provides the basis and the direction for the further development of novel and potential drugs.

Shen, Chun-Yan; Jiang, Jian-Guo; Yang, Li; Wang, Da-Wei; Zhu, Wei (2017). "Anti-ageing active ingredients from herbs and nutraceuticals used in traditional Chinese medicine: pharmacological mechanisms and implications for drug discovery". British Journal of Pharmacology. 174 (11): 1395–1425. doi:10.1111/bph.13631
 
Skorpio said:
I’m not sure the dose of rapamycin people take for its supposed longevity effects is similar to the immunosuppressive dose.

I don’t entirely buy that it is without long term and nuanced effects, but from what I know (which is very little), I recall one of David Sabatini’s students saying that immunosuppression isn’t an issue at that dose. The bias should be obvious there, so do with it what you will.
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Thank you for pointing that out. I was not aware of the dosage issue. however, if it is the case that anti-aging doses are much smaller than the immunosuppressive dose, then this could be something viable.
Nevertheless, I’m generally very sceptical of anti-aging remedies, not only because most don’t work in humans but also because there can be a trade-off between quality of life and healthspan.
For example, it is believed that having less growth hormone could delay or even prevent the onset of diabetes and cancer in later life. However, this comes with increased body fat storage and fasting hypoglycaemia. therefore, I actually prefer many compounds which supposedly accelerate aging, such as growth hormone, nicotine, amphetamine type stimulants if I ever get to try them and even a high carbohydrate diet. that’s because they can improve the quality of life and I’d rather live a life that was short and sweet instead of one that was long and bitter.
 
MTOR also implicated in psychedelics and ketamine.

Btw man, you really should have mentioned MTOR.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Neuroprotection said:
Thank you for pointing that out. I was not aware of the dosage issue. however, if it is the case that anti-aging doses are much smaller than the immunosuppressive dose, then this could be something viable.
Nevertheless, I’m generally very sceptical of anti-aging remedies, not only because most don’t work in humans but also because there can be a trade-off between quality of life and healthspan.
For example, it is believed that having less growth hormone could delay or even prevent the onset of diabetes and cancer in later life. However, this comes with increased body fat storage and fasting hypoglycaemia. therefore, I actually prefer many compounds which supposedly accelerate aging, such as growth hormone, nicotine, amphetamine type stimulants if I ever get to try them and even a high carbohydrate diet. that’s because they can improve the quality of life and I’d rather live a life that was short and sweet instead of one that was long and bitter.
Click to expand...
Yeah I generally check assumptions against a general concept of “no free lunches”, and that often helps me judge claims. Idk I find lifespan extension to be potentially really unethical.
 
MedicinalUser247 said:
I was hoping that someone like you or @Skorpio could explain it because I hate doing a lot of typing.
Click to expand...
So don t know how much you hate typing but you allready did the research.
And posted a topic, thats allready quite some work.
Use copy/ paste and link to url s. Don t take very long when you got/ are the source.

Some people hate or are not so good at that [searching], why not help out a bit.
Reveal what you found, might develop into interesting things and finds.

Rapamycin is known so is it a supplement or do you need a dr.
If that s the case its not even a option as dr s, unknowingly, rather have you sick or death.
Then living healthy and long instead.
 
So quite a contraversial substance.

We have proven things that stimulate neurogenesis, prevent aptosis of good cells/ kill bad ones, extent telomeres, promote longevity.
And a wealth of info on what is a healthy lifestyle.
would we have healthy enviroment to live in [air/ water/ soil/ human creations or leftovers].
Things could go fine.

Is this Rapamycin a bit like the Omega 3 hype. Bout money more then live ?
 
Smyth2 said:
If you are interested in anti-aging I have the following document that might interest you.

Ageing, an unanswered question in the medical field, is a multifactorial process that results in a progressive functional decline in cells, tissues and organisms. Although it is impossible to prevent ageing, slowing down the rate of ageing is entirely possible to achieve. Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) is characterized by the nourishing of life and its role in anti-ageing is getting more and more attention. This article summarizes the work done on the natural products from TCM that are reported to have anti-ageing effects, in the past two decades. The effective anti-ageing ingredients identified can be generally divided into flavonoids, saponins, polysaccharides, alkaloids and others. Astragaloside, Cistanche tubulosa acteoside, icariin, tetrahydrocurcumin, quercetin, butein, berberine, catechin, curcumin, epigallocatechin gallate, gastrodin, 6-Gingerol, glaucarubinone, ginsenoside Rg1, luteolin, icarisid II, naringenin, resveratrol, theaflavin, carnosic acid, catalpol, chrysophanol, cycloastragenol, emodin, galangin, echinacoside, ferulic acid, huperzine, honokiol, isoliensinine, phycocyanin, proanthocyanidins, rosmarinic acid, oxymatrine, piceid, puerarin and salvianolic acid B are specified in this review. Simultaneously, chemical structures of the monomers with anti-ageing activities are listed, and their source, model, efficacy and mechanism are also described. The TCMs with anti-ageing function are classified according to their action pathways, including the telomere and telomerase, the sirtuins, the mammalian target of rapamycin, AMP-activated kinase and insulin/insulin-like growth factor-1 signalling pathway, free radicals scavenging and the resistance to DNA damage. Finally, Chinese compound prescription and extracts related to anti-ageing are introduced, which provides the basis and the direction for the further development of novel and potential drugs.

Shen, Chun-Yan; Jiang, Jian-Guo; Yang, Li; Wang, Da-Wei; Zhu, Wei (2017). "Anti-ageing active ingredients from herbs and nutraceuticals used in traditional Chinese medicine: pharmacological mechanisms and implications for drug discovery". British Journal of Pharmacology. 174 (11): 1395–1425. doi:10.1111/bph.13631
Click to expand...
Might include Indian Ayurveda to. Not the heavy metal shit that s old news.

So always check with these things, i knew a so called Chinese dr, she did the schooling,
but little did she know. Like.

Dried powdered Ginger was is best for warmth and fresh for naussea,
While its just a simple chemical degradation causin the change in effect.
A dr. should know.

Ginger is good anyway, to bad most is imported from China, Eco and China.
Yeah right, but everyday consumption should extent live very cheap.
 
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