Vyvanse & increasing yield of d-amph conversion in metabolosis?

[Lookslikeahog]

Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??

 

[Lookslikeahog]

How about drawing blood, adding the vyvanse, trypsin directly to
The blood, wait, and return the the body.

 

[Lookslikeahog]

Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??

Or lastly, inject it into a raw steak with bloody, let it set, and eat it rare?

 

[reflexor]

N

Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??

Not how it works. Vyvanse is a heavier compound since it has a lysine molecule attached to the d-amp. Lysine has a molecular weight of 146g/mol while dextro-amp has a molecular weight of 135g/mol. So more than half the weight of your Vyvanse pill is actually lysine not dextro-amp.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Or lastly, inject it into a raw steak with bloody, let it set, and eat it rare?

I don't think that bovine blood has the correct amino acid cleaving enzyme.

If you get human blood from somewhere you don't need to put trypsin in it. The mechanism of hydrolysis is done by an unknown amino peptidase.

I don't believe trypsin is effective because it is present in the stomach and duodenum. If it was, all the lisdexamphetamine would be hydrolyzed to d-amphetamine in the duodenum and small intestine, making it instant release.

 

[reflexor]

Th

I don't think that bovine blood has the correct amino acid cleaving enzyme.

If you get human blood from somewhere you don't need to put trypsin in it. The mechanism of hydrolysis is done by an unknown amino peptidase.

I don't believe trypsin is effective because it is present in the stomach and duodenum. If it was, all the lisdexamphetamine would be hydrolyzed to d-amphetamine in the duodenum and small intestine, making it instant release

Thats irrelevant, you can’t make vyvanse instant release with other blood because you need a circulatory system which is heated to the optimal temperature for the enzyme so it doesn’t either denature or react too slowly with the substrate.

Also, you’d have to leave it in the blood provided the temperature was optimal for a shit ton of time because their is no agitation of the solution otherwise. Cleaving enzymes don’t just navigate to the substrate like homing missiles it’s an entropic process.

Even further, you are likely to render the compound inactive if you don’t consider non-competitive inhibition for other substrates that might be present in whatever blood your using.

This is a completely ridiculous question to entertain especially since he’s considering drawing blood and you wouldn’t even increase the amount of d-amp yielded because there isn’t 70mg of d-amp in 70mg of lisdex

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah, unlike with say codeine + glutethimide, which can result in increased conversion of codeine to morphine, the amount of dextroamphetamine in vyvanse is set in stone.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Th

Thats irrelevant, you can’t make vyvanse instant release with other blood because you need a circulatory system which is heated to the optimal temperature for the enzyme so it doesn’t either denature or react too slowly with the substrate.

Also, you’d have to leave it in the blood provided the temperature was optimal for a shit ton of time because their is no agitation of the solution otherwise. Cleaving enzymes don’t just navigate to the substrate like homing missiles it’s an entropic process.

Even further, you are likely to render the compound inactive if you don’t consider non-competitive inhibition for other substrates that might be present in whatever blood your using.

This is a completely ridiculous question to entertain especially since he’s considering drawing blood and you wouldn’t even increase the amount of d-amp yielded because there isn’t 70mg of d-amp in 70mg of lisdex

Not really. The study below indicates that aliquots were only brought to temperature and not kept at 37°.

"Here, we report that LDX hydrolytic activity resides in human red blood cell lysate and cytosolic extract but not in the membrane fraction."

"Duplicate 1.98 mL samples of blood or fractionated blood were equilibrated to 37°C for 5 minutes before addition of 20 μL of stock LDX to produce a final LDX concentration of 1 μg/mL. At 0, 15, 30, 60, 120, and 240 minutes after addition of LDX..."

Notice they did not keep the blood samples at 37°, simply brought to temp for 5 min.

Lisdexamfetamine prodrug activation by peptidase-mediated hydrolysis in the cytosol of red blood cells

Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate (LDX) is approved as a once-daily treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in children, adolescents, and adults in some countries. LDX is a prodrug comprising d-amphetamine covalently linked to l-lysine via a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But letting it sit there for 4 hours is necessary for it to get (most of) the d-amphetamine out.

If you read the paper, you'll see that you can actually mix it into human blood, let it sit there for 4 or 5 hours and then it will be pretty much all d-amphetamine.

It's sort of gross, I mean that's really going beyond the pale.

 

[reflexor]

Not really. The study below indicates that aliquots were only brought to temperature and not kept at 37°.

"Here, we report that LDX hydrolytic activity resides in human red blood cell lysate and cytosolic extract but not in the membrane fraction."

"Duplicate 1.98 mL samples of blood or fractionated blood were equilibrated to 37°C for 5 minutes before addition of 20 μL of stock LDX to produce a final LDX concentration of 1 μg/mL. At 0, 15, 30, 60, 120, and 240 minutes after addition of LDX..."

Notice they did not keep the blood samples at 37°, simply brought to temp for 5 min.

Lisdexamfetamine prodrug activation by peptidase-mediated hydrolysis in the cytosol of red blood cells

Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate (LDX) is approved as a once-daily treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in children, adolescents, and adults in some countries. LDX is a prodrug comprising d-amphetamine covalently linked to l-lysine via a ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But letting it sit there for 4 hours is necessary for it to get (most of) the d-amphetamine out.

If you read the paper, you'll see that you can actually mix it into human blood, let it sit there for 4 or 5 hours and then it will be pretty much all d-amphetamine.

It's sort of gross, I mean that's really going beyond the pale.

Thanks for the information, I admit I hadn’t really checked the viability, just the proposal made me feel half sick. I cannot imagine drawing blood, doing a lab experiment on it and then god forbid reinjecting it, keep in mind drinking your own blood is only a minor step down from I.V.

In any case, I strongly recommend against trying to hack the MOA of vyvanse, in a way like this.

 

[reflexor]

Yeah, unlike with say codeine + glutethimide, which can result in increased conversion of codeine to morphine, the amount of dextroamphetamine in vyvanse is set in stone.

Absolutely agree, the yield would not increase no matter what high school lab experiment you perform.

 

[Lookslikeahog]

Thanks. These guys normally give me 2 adderall 30 per day, even if I haven’t been treated for a year. The new helper practitioner gives me 40mg vyvanse because of the shortage of adderall. I feel like I’ve taken a sugar pill or placebo. It has ZERO effects and zero motivation. I may quit all together after trying it yesterday.

 

[Lookslikeahog]

Thanks. These guys normally give me 2 adderall 30 per day, even if I haven’t been treated for a year. The new helper practitioner gives me 40mg vyvanse because of the shortage of adderall. I feel like I’ve taken a sugar pill or placebo. It has ZERO effects and zero motivation. I may quit all together after trying it yesterday.

And it cost me
$400!!!!!

 

[SpiralusSancti]

keep in mind drinking your own blood is only a minor step down from I.V.

Who decides if it’s step down or up from I.V.…. This is a tie imo lol.

 

[Jabberwocky]

And it cost me
$400!!!!!

Can you get XR Adderall?

Insurance doesn't cover Vyvanse?

 

[Lookslikeahog]

I could but I’ve heard you can’t get any of the adderall because of the shortage.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for the information, I admit I hadn’t really checked the viability, just the proposal made me feel half sick. I cannot imagine drawing blood, doing a lab experiment on it and then god forbid reinjecting it, keep in mind drinking your own blood is only a minor step down from I.V.

In any case, I strongly recommend against trying to hack the MOA of vyvanse, in a way like this.

If someone (SO) was actually going to do this, SO would likely want to do it in volume, and get a liter or 2 of donated whole blood.

After allowing the unknown amino-peptidase to do it's work, SO would want to extract the d-amphetamine freebase from the blood, then make it a salt.

Not extremely difficult but tedious with multiple steps.

Still pretty gross.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I could but I’ve heard you can’t get any of the adderall because of the shortage.

Teva is supposed to have back orders filled about now for XR.

As an alternative:

Aytu BioPharma's Adzenys XR ODT is bioequivalent to Adderall XR. It is available as of the 17th of February.

 

[Lookslikeahog]

Teva is supposed to have back orders filled about now for XR.

As an alternative:

Aytu BioPharma's Adzenys XR ODT is bioequivalent to Adderall XR. It is available as of the 17th of February.

Thank you!

 

[Lookslikeahog]

If someone (SO) was actually going to do this, SO would likely want to do it in volume, and get a liter or 2 of donated whole blood.

After allowing the unknown amino-peptidase to do it's work, SO would want to extract the d-amphetamine freebase from the blood, then make it a salt.

Not extremely difficult but tedious with multiple steps.

Still pretty gross.

Lol. Just hypothetical though. But the point would be useless because your yield would be the same of d-amph taking the pill or doing it this way. Minimal benefit for lots of gross work.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Lol. Just hypothetical though. But the point would be useless because your yield would be the same of d-amph taking the pill or doing it this way. Minimal benefit for lots of gross work.

Yup.

Vyvanse is insanely expensive when you consider that your 40 mg prescription for the month might contain 400 mg total amphetamine.

That's a dollar a milligram. $1,000 a gram.