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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Vyvanse & increasing yield of d-amph conversion in metabolosis?

L

Lookslikeahog

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Joined
Feb 24, 2023
Messages
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Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??
 
How about drawing blood, adding the vyvanse, trypsin directly to
The blood, wait, and return the the body.
 
Lookslikeahog said:
Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??
Click to expand...
Or lastly, inject it into a raw steak with bloody, let it set, and eat it rare?
 
N
Lookslikeahog said:
Is there any way to get I higher dose of the weight of vyvanse to convert to d-amph in the bloodstream than it normally does? If 70mg was like 20 or 30 amph-d, could you get 40 or 50 d amph somehow from the 70 taking something else??
Click to expand...
Not how it works. Vyvanse is a heavier compound since it has a lysine molecule attached to the d-amp. Lysine has a molecular weight of 146g/mol while dextro-amp has a molecular weight of 135g/mol. So more than half the weight of your Vyvanse pill is actually lysine not dextro-amp.
 
Lookslikeahog said:
Or lastly, inject it into a raw steak with bloody, let it set, and eat it rare?
Click to expand...
I don't think that bovine blood has the correct amino acid cleaving enzyme.

If you get human blood from somewhere you don't need to put trypsin in it. The mechanism of hydrolysis is done by an unknown amino peptidase.

I don't believe trypsin is effective because it is present in the stomach and duodenum. If it was, all the lisdexamphetamine would be hydrolyzed to d-amphetamine in the duodenum and small intestine, making it instant release.
 
Th
shugenja said:
I don't think that bovine blood has the correct amino acid cleaving enzyme.

If you get human blood from somewhere you don't need to put trypsin in it. The mechanism of hydrolysis is done by an unknown amino peptidase.

I don't believe trypsin is effective because it is present in the stomach and duodenum. If it was, all the lisdexamphetamine would be hydrolyzed to d-amphetamine in the duodenum and small intestine, making it instant release
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Thats irrelevant, you can’t make vyvanse instant release with other blood because you need a circulatory system which is heated to the optimal temperature for the enzyme so it doesn’t either denature or react too slowly with the substrate.

Also, you’d have to leave it in the blood provided the temperature was optimal for a shit ton of time because their is no agitation of the solution otherwise. Cleaving enzymes don’t just navigate to the substrate like homing missiles it’s an entropic process.

Even further, you are likely to render the compound inactive if you don’t consider non-competitive inhibition for other substrates that might be present in whatever blood your using.

This is a completely ridiculous question to entertain especially since he’s considering drawing blood and you wouldn’t even increase the amount of d-amp yielded because there isn’t 70mg of d-amp in 70mg of lisdex
 
Yeah, unlike with say codeine + glutethimide, which can result in increased conversion of codeine to morphine, the amount of dextroamphetamine in vyvanse is set in stone.
 
reflexor said:
Th

Thats irrelevant, you can’t make vyvanse instant release with other blood because you need a circulatory system which is heated to the optimal temperature for the enzyme so it doesn’t either denature or react too slowly with the substrate.

Also, you’d have to leave it in the blood provided the temperature was optimal for a shit ton of time because their is no agitation of the solution otherwise. Cleaving enzymes don’t just navigate to the substrate like homing missiles it’s an entropic process.

Even further, you are likely to render the compound inactive if you don’t consider non-competitive inhibition for other substrates that might be present in whatever blood your using.

This is a completely ridiculous question to entertain especially since he’s considering drawing blood and you wouldn’t even increase the amount of d-amp yielded because there isn’t 70mg of d-amp in 70mg of lisdex
Click to expand...

Not really. The study below indicates that aliquots were only brought to temperature and not kept at 37°.

"Here, we report that LDX hydrolytic activity resides in human red blood cell lysate and cytosolic extract but not in the membrane fraction."

"Duplicate 1.98 mL samples of blood or fractionated blood were equilibrated to 37°C for 5 minutes before addition of 20 μL of stock LDX to produce a final LDX concentration of 1 μg/mL. At 0, 15, 30, 60, 120, and 240 minutes after addition of LDX..."

Notice they did not keep the blood samples at 37°, simply brought to temp for 5 min.

Lisdexamfetamine prodrug activation by peptidase-mediated hydrolysis in the cytosol of red blood cells - PMC

Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate (LDX) is approved as a once-daily treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in children, adolescents, and adults in some countries. LDX is a prodrug comprising d-amphetamine covalently linked to l-lysine via ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But letting it sit there for 4 hours is necessary for it to get (most of) the d-amphetamine out.

If you read the paper, you'll see that you can actually mix it into human blood, let it sit there for 4 or 5 hours and then it will be pretty much all d-amphetamine.

It's sort of gross, I mean that's really going beyond the pale.
 
shugenja said:
Not really. The study below indicates that aliquots were only brought to temperature and not kept at 37°.

"Here, we report that LDX hydrolytic activity resides in human red blood cell lysate and cytosolic extract but not in the membrane fraction."

"Duplicate 1.98 mL samples of blood or fractionated blood were equilibrated to 37°C for 5 minutes before addition of 20 μL of stock LDX to produce a final LDX concentration of 1 μg/mL. At 0, 15, 30, 60, 120, and 240 minutes after addition of LDX..."

Notice they did not keep the blood samples at 37°, simply brought to temp for 5 min.

Lisdexamfetamine prodrug activation by peptidase-mediated hydrolysis in the cytosol of red blood cells - PMC

Lisdexamfetamine dimesylate (LDX) is approved as a once-daily treatment for attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in children, adolescents, and adults in some countries. LDX is a prodrug comprising d-amphetamine covalently linked to l-lysine via ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

But letting it sit there for 4 hours is necessary for it to get (most of) the d-amphetamine out.

If you read the paper, you'll see that you can actually mix it into human blood, let it sit there for 4 or 5 hours and then it will be pretty much all d-amphetamine.

It's sort of gross, I mean that's really going beyond the pale.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the information, I admit I hadn’t really checked the viability, just the proposal made me feel half sick. I cannot imagine drawing blood, doing a lab experiment on it and then god forbid reinjecting it, keep in mind drinking your own blood is only a minor step down from I.V.

In any case, I strongly recommend against trying to hack the MOA of vyvanse, in a way like this.
 
negrogesic said:
Yeah, unlike with say codeine + glutethimide, which can result in increased conversion of codeine to morphine, the amount of dextroamphetamine in vyvanse is set in stone.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree, the yield would not increase no matter what high school lab experiment you perform.
 
Thanks. These guys normally give me 2 adderall 30 per day, even if I haven’t been treated for a year. The new helper practitioner gives me 40mg vyvanse because of the shortage of adderall. I feel like I’ve taken a sugar pill or placebo. It has ZERO effects and zero motivation. I may quit all together after trying it yesterday.
 
Lookslikeahog said:
Thanks. These guys normally give me 2 adderall 30 per day, even if I haven’t been treated for a year. The new helper practitioner gives me 40mg vyvanse because of the shortage of adderall. I feel like I’ve taken a sugar pill or placebo. It has ZERO effects and zero motivation. I may quit all together after trying it yesterday.
Click to expand...
And it cost me
$400!!!!!
 
reflexor said:
Thanks for the information, I admit I hadn’t really checked the viability, just the proposal made me feel half sick. I cannot imagine drawing blood, doing a lab experiment on it and then god forbid reinjecting it, keep in mind drinking your own blood is only a minor step down from I.V.

In any case, I strongly recommend against trying to hack the MOA of vyvanse, in a way like this.
Click to expand...
If someone (SO) was actually going to do this, SO would likely want to do it in volume, and get a liter or 2 of donated whole blood.

After allowing the unknown amino-peptidase to do it's work, SO would want to extract the d-amphetamine freebase from the blood, then make it a salt.

Not extremely difficult but tedious with multiple steps.

Still pretty gross.
 
shugenja said:
If someone (SO) was actually going to do this, SO would likely want to do it in volume, and get a liter or 2 of donated whole blood.

After allowing the unknown amino-peptidase to do it's work, SO would want to extract the d-amphetamine freebase from the blood, then make it a salt.

Not extremely difficult but tedious with multiple steps.

Still pretty gross.
Click to expand...
Lol. Just hypothetical though. But the point would be useless because your yield would be the same of d-amph taking the pill or doing it this way. Minimal benefit for lots of gross work.
 
Lookslikeahog said:
Lol. Just hypothetical though. But the point would be useless because your yield would be the same of d-amph taking the pill or doing it this way. Minimal benefit for lots of gross work.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Vyvanse is insanely expensive when you consider that your 40 mg prescription for the month might contain 400 mg total amphetamine.

That's a dollar a milligram. $1,000 a gram.
 
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