Vyvanse & Heart Problems

[tweex]

See if you can get scripted Guanfacine. Should kill two birds with one stone by helping alleviate cardiovascular effects of stimulants and helping ADHD without being at all sedating.

I can't wait to try guanfacine once I can source some. I had to quit my daily nicotine due to the cardiovascular effects, but I'd like to get started again with guanfacine as an adjuvant, nicotine is a nice stim.

 

[ohshitebro]

it sucks man, I got that stuff from new pdoc for sleep, HAHA... but now I just take my Dexedrine as directed. It is same med as vyvanse but instant release, and I prefer it over vyvanse anyday.

 

[Lightning-Nl]

See if you can get scripted Guanfacine. Should kill two birds with one stone by helping alleviate cardiovascular effects of stimulants and helping ADHD without being at all sedating.

I can't wait to try guanfacine once I can source some. I had to quit my daily nicotine due to the cardiovascular effects, but I'd like to get started again with guanfacine as an adjuvant, nicotine is a nice stim.

I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but Guanfacine isn't a stimulant and therefore is not controlled by the DEA.

Guanfacine is actually a CNS depressant. Even though it binds to, and slightly agonizes alpha-1a, this causes CNS depression. The reason this happens is due to the fact that, the receptor that Guanfacine agonizes (again, alpha-1a) is an auto receptor. Auto receptors are responsible for "monitoring" levels of neurotransmitters in the body. By binding to alpha-1a, thus causing the neuron to fire much quicker, this confuses the brain into believing that there are massive amounts of Epinephrine and Norepinephrine in the synapses. This makes the body attempt to compensate, and thus, body wide reuptake is induced.

I know it's odd to think that a substance that binds and agonizes one of the Adrenergic receptors would cause CNS sedation, but, again, the cause behind this is due to the fact that Guanfacine will force the body to massively lower Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels.

Guanfacine, therefore, has little to no recreational value, will actually decrease the effects of Nicotine, and getting a prescription is as easy as asking for one. No need to source any. Just go to your pediatrician and have them give you some.

 

[ohshitebro]

Klonopin is where it's at lol

I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but Guanfacine isn't a stimulant and therefore is not controlled by the DEA.

Guanfacine is actually a CNS depressant. Even though it binds to, and slightly agonizes alpha-1a, this causes
CNS depression. The reason this happens is due to the fact that, the receptor that Guanfacine agonizes (again, alpha-1a) is an auto receptor. Auto receptors are responsible for "monitoring" levels of neurotransmitters in the body. By binding to alpha-1a, thus causing the neuron to fire much quicker, this confuses the brain into believing that there are massive amounts of Epinephrine and Norepinephrine in the synapses. This makes the body attempt to compensate, and thus, body wide reuptake is induced.

I know it's odd to think that a substance that binds and agonizes one of the Adrenergic receptors would cause CNS sedation, but, again, the cause behind this is due to the fact that Guanfacine will force the body to massively lower Epinephrine and Norepinephrine levels.

Guanfacine, therefore, has little to no recreational value, will actually decrease the effects of Nicotine, and getting a prescription is as easy as asking for one. No need to source any. Just go to your pediatrician and have them give you some.

Dude he was saying to help with blood pressure and hypertension from the medicine, I am quite sure he knows guanfacine is not recreational. Cool that you know all that though.

 

[Intenselife]

I read the majority of your post, first off if your an alcoholic that in itself creates major heart problems and then vyvanse or meth (amphetamines/stimulants) also alone can create heart problems. Being an alcoholic and doing stimulants/amphetamines will have even worse effects on your heart, so your answer is within your own post. Slow down buddy xd

 

[ohshitebro]

Dudes, klonopin+d-amp = most productive ever lol

 

[Lightning-Nl]

Dudes, klonopin+d-amp = most productive ever lol

Everyone - please disregard this information. Mixing a Benzodiazepine (barbiturates, ethanol, and z-drugs also apply) with a Stimulant, especially one as powerful as dextroamphetamine, is incredibly dangerous.

This combo, no matter how small the dose, puts so much strain on the body (due to the fact that they have direct opposite effects) that it can induce something called "Autonomic Nervous System failure." The Autonomic Nervous System is a "subsection" of the Central Nervous System that is responsible for controlling involuntary muscle movements. Therefore, this is the system that controls your breathing, heart beat, etc... So, what that means when this combo induces this is, it will give you a heart attack.

Do not mix these. Doing so is extremely dangerous (if taken at the same time) and anyone that does this is just plain stupid.

 

[Intenselife]

I take my prescribed klonopins AFTER the adderall buzz has woren off the days that i do take adderall. It's safe and recommended, as it reduces the anxiety, heart rate, and overall "comedown" but i'm not too sure about if your an alcoholic as well, maybe it will easen the effects when your vyvanse or meth has WOREN off.

 

[ohshitebro]

Fox, I was talking to people who need it, if u have panic attacks the end of the day off dex sucks ass. And it was prescribed to be taken by an ADHD and anxiety specialist of 25 years. I think he would know more than you. We are talking low dose of each. My mistake for not elaborating further. Don't disregard what I said, speak with a doctor about it. It changed my life. I don't appreciate you treating me for a fool telling people to combine uppers and downers at high doses. I was stating that it was the perfect combo for my personal situation. But it's cool. I recommend the two meds, after being properly educated. And ironically "intense" I don't feel the urge to use or drink any longer, I am enrolled in college now, and am running a successful bush hogging business now :D. No hard feelings fox and I didn't mean for the experienced doctor comment to belittle your knowledge, just stating he is an expert, whom I trust

 

[ohshitebro]

And I am not just plain stupid, I am just plain listening to a doctor

 

[ro4eva]

I am enrolled in college now, and am running a successful bush hogging business now :D

What's bush hogging? Is that like muff diving?

What would you say is the average diameter of all the clits you've sampled? Don't mind me, I'm just joking.

 

[ohshitebro]

HAHAHAHA!!! Nah I don't share any of the pussy! But for real it's like mowing yards, except giant overgrown fields on a tractor.

 

[ro4eva]

Everyone - please disregard this information. Mixing a Benzodiazepine (barbiturates, ethanol, and z-drugs also apply) with a Stimulant, especially one as powerful as dextroamphetamine, is incredibly dangerous.

If that's the case then why is it standard protocol for hospital patients who are there due to a stimulant-related adverse reaction to be treated with a benzodiazepine?

I think you might mean that mixing a stimulant such as dextroamphetamine or cocaine with a narcotic such as heroin or morphine will put a lot of strain on a person's cardiovascular system due to the following:

1 - The Stimulant will constrict major blood vessels (arteries, veins), and also increase blood pressure, heart-rate and (as a result) respiratory rate, meaning that the heart will have to work harder to pump oxygenated blood to the vital organs in the body.

2 - Adding a narcotic to the mix will cause the user's breathing to be slowed (among other things). This can result in heart failure because the user needs to intake more oxygen (due to the stimulant) by way of breathing faster, but the narcotic has slowed the ability to breathe at an adequate rate.

Think of it like jogging while holding your breath. That's basically what's happening by mixing a potent stimulant with a potent narcotic. This is also why speedballs are so dangerous. This is why River Phoenix, Chris Farley and John Belushi died.

That being said, GABA agonists, such as benzodiazepines do not work the same way. They don't depress breathing in the same manner that narcotics do. Countless people (including myself) are prescribed ADD/ADHD meds (Ritalin, Dexedrine) in combination with a benzo (Xanax, Klonopin). And in the 8 years I've been on Xanax, it's been a huge help in relation to stimulant-associated adverse effects, such as anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, etc.

 

[Lightning-Nl]

If that's the case then why is it standard protocol for hospital patients who are there due to a stimulant-related adverse reaction to be treated with a benzodiazepine?

I think you might mean that mixing a stimulant such as dextroamphetamine or cocaine with a narcotic such as heroin or morphine will put a lot of strain on a person's cardiovascular system due to the following:

1 - The Stimulant will constrict major blood vessels (arteries, veins), and also increase blood pressure, heart-rate and (as a result) respiratory rate, meaning that the heart will have to work harder to pump oxygenated blood to the vital organs in the body.

2 - Adding a narcotic to the mix will cause the user's breathing to be slowed (among other things). This can result in heart failure because the user needs to intake more oxygen (due to the stimulant) by way of breathing faster, but the narcotic has slowed the ability to breathe at an adequate rate.

Think of it like jogging while holding your breath. That's basically what's happening by mixing a potent stimulant with a potent narcotic. This is also why speedballs are so dangerous. This is why River Phoenix, Chris Farley and John Belushi died.

Nope I don't.

Mixing ANY Dopaminergic/Adrenergic stimulant with any GABAergix drug is extremely dangerous. Period.

I'm fully aware that Emergency Rooms use intravenous Lorazepam to revert a stimulant overdose, however, the only reason why that's done: is due to the fact that the possibility of the patient having a seizure is a greater risk than mixing the benzodiazepine with the stimulant. Also, they aren't using huge doses of Lorazepam like a recreational user would. Bad things can happen when a GABAergic and stimulant are mixed, however, as dosage decreases, the likelihood of problems also decreases.

Also, mixing an Opiate with a stimulant is much safer than mixing a benzodiazepine with a stimulant. Sources and facts can be cited, however, this is easily found in any study.

That being said, GABA agonists, such as benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines ARE NOT GABA agonists. They don't cause the increased chloride firing into the neuron. The way Benzodiazepines work is by widening the chloride channel. GABA still has to bind to the GABA receptors in order for the impulse to be sent. However, benzodiazepines don't send a chloride impulse themselves. Therefore, they're not considered agonists.

That being said, GABA agonists, such as benzodiazepine
do not work the same way. They don't depress breathing in the same manner that narcotics do.

No.

This is entirely wrong. A benzodiazepine and opiate boat depress breathing by slowing down the autonomic nervous system. Different neurotransmitters may be involved, but the result is still the same. Autonomic Nervous System depression.

Countless people (including myself) are prescribed ADD/ADHD meds (Ritalin, Dexedrine) in combination with a benzo (Xanax, Klonopin). And in the 8 years I've been on Xanax, it's been a huge help in relation to stimulant-associated adverse effects, such as anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, etc.

This doesn't apply to what I'm saying. You don't take your stimulant ADHD med at the exact same time as the Benzo, therefore, the interaction they have with each other is minimal.

If you do take them together - stop immediately. You're going to give yourself a heart attack.

 

[ro4eva]

Benzodiazepines ARE NOT GABA agonists. They don't cause the increased chloride firing into the neuron. The way Benzodiazepines work is by widening the chloride channel. GABA still has to bind to the GABA receptors in order for the impulse to be sent. However, benzodiazepines don't send a chloride impulse themselves. Therefore, they're not considered agonists.

???

Benzodiazepines work by increasing the frequency of the opening of the associated chloride ion channel, not widening it.

Barbiturates work by increasing the duration of the opening.

Not sure where you got "widening" from.

Also, an agonist is a chemical that binds to some receptor of a cell and triggers a response by that cell. Agonists often mimic the action of a naturally occurring substance. Whereas an agonist causes an action, an antagonist blocks the action of the agonist and an inverse agonist causes an action opposite to that of the agonist.

A benzodiazepine binds to GABA-a receptors and enhances the efficiency of it by increasing the frequency of the opening of the associated C.I. channel. Therefore, a benzodiazepine is a GABA-a agonist.

Mixing ANY Dopaminergic/Adrenergic stimulant with any GABAergix drug is extremely dangerous. Period.

I disagree. Enhanced GABA neuronal firing due to the use of a benzodiazepine will - to a certain degree - inhibit adverse effects produced as a result of stimulant drug use.

This is entirely wrong. A benzodiazepine and opiate boat depress breathing by slowing down the autonomic nervous system. Different neurotransmitters may be involved, but the result is still the same. Autonomic Nervous System depression.

Benzodiazepine-enhanced, GABA-induced respiratory depression is related to smooth muscle relaxation resulting in a mechanical effect with an increase in upper airway resistance and obstructive apnea rather than a central effect.

It is generally accepted that opioid-induced respiratory depression is attributed to activation of the µ2 opioid receptor, which is mainly found in the central nervous system, particularly the spinal cord.

Overdosing on either can however lead to apnea, hypoxia, coma and ultimately death.

This doesn't apply to what I'm saying. You don't take your stimulant ADHD med at the exact same time as the Benzo, therefore, the interaction they have with each other is minimal.

Actually, I do take them together. I've been taking them together for close to 7 years. The Xanax is taken TID, and the other OD. My cardiovascular health is in good working order.

Also, mixing an Opiate with a stimulant is much safer than mixing a benzodiazepine with a stimulant. Sources and facts can be cited, however, this is easily found in any study.

I would very much like to read a study in which the conclusion of said study - beyond a reasonable doubt - is that combining a potent sympathetic nervous system stimulant with a full-agonist opioid analgesic is "much safer" (short and/or long term) than combining the same stimulant with a full-agonist benzodiazepine.

 

[ohshitebro]

I'm not a pharmacist, but they work fine together. In prescribed doses. Damn doctors tryna give us heart attacks ro4ever lol I find it funny you are very well versed on the subject, and can intelligently debate his claims, and you do all of this while being "just plain stupid" lol

 

[Intenselife]

What the hell whoever said combining an opiate with a stimulant is safer than a combining a benzo would be a lot more DANGEROUS. Benzos are commonly prescribed to many to those on stimulants to mellow out the effects (if you take them at the same time, they slow down the speediness of a stimulant but most people like me enjoy the speediness) That's why when your coming down it's better to use the benzo to get rid of the anxiety, shitty depressing feeling, etc

Maybe a low dose opiate AFTER a stimulant/amphetamine high might be ok, but not at the same time but can be done properly but the doses would have to be at a safe range, for example umm lets use meth as an example combining it with a 5-10mg oxycodone for a non tolerant user, but like 30mg can be a tad much on the riskier side. If you took a large dose of a benzo on a stimulant/amphetamine high it would just further decrease the stimulant/amphetamine high.

 

[ohshitebro]

I think it decreases the physical aspect of the stimulant but not the mental, in my experience. Like acid+benzo, you still get the awesome visuals and mindrape, without killer anxiety. I guess my GABA needs antigonisting lol

 

[ro4eva]

I'm not a pharmacist, but they work fine together. In prescribed doses. Damn doctors tryna give us heart attacks ro4ever lol I find it funny you are very well versed on the subject, and can intelligently debate his claims, and you do all of this while being "just plain stupid" lol

How stupid of me, I didn't "get it" until I read the earlier posts

Anyways, the Xanax has been an enormous help in relation to stimulant-induced adverse effects - namely anxiety, panic attacks and insomnia.

There was also a couple of incidents where I acted extremely reckless and stupid. The most recent fuck up, I had bought some ecstasy pills which turned out to be a mixture of RCs and Piperazines. I popped two and - long story short - nearly ended up dead. I believe I was able to ride out the trip because I ingested about 5mg of Xanax over the course of a couple of hours, which brought my heart rate and low-grade fever down considerably, and also allowed me to get about 6 hours of sleep. My resting heart-rate was about 180bpm before the use of Xanax, and approximately 120 afterwards. At no point was I gasping for air after using the benzo, nor did it make me feel worse. Without it, I don't think my body would have been able to cope without probably progressing to rhabdomyolysis, cardiac arrest and death.

 

[ohshitebro]

Hahahaha wow that's crazy, fuck a dealer puttin that shit into rolls