Vice - 5.02 of interest in over 24 hours of 'drug chemistry'

[Fertile]

Let me begin by saying I am no fan of Hamilton Morris, he's a journalist who infers that he has some knowledge of organic chemistry. He has NONE. Evidently someone less photogenic is responsible for his technical pronouncements.

But I WAS interested by a small section on his investigation into the abuse of methaqualone in South Africa. It's not synthetically complex but the official precursors are tightly controlled. 37.30-42.32 IS interesting.



Now, of not practical interest since the precursors are so tightly controlled but rather than needing PCl5 or polyphosphoric acid to dehydrate the reaction, it's driven thermally i.e. a molecule of water is driven off as steam.

It reminds me of how the Russians managed to make desoxymorphine (badly) from codeine using iodine & red phosphorous and using brick cleaner (HCl), caustic soda and gasoline to first isolate the codeine.

A testament to the human imagination. Neither reaction was ever in a formal paper or even in a paper-mill article. Someone simply used logic and possibly a pencil and paper to work it out,

When you SEE the product I am confident that nobody is about to try this (or I wouldn't have posted) but in both cases it's poor, marginalised groups using the little knowledge they obtained via word of mouth to better their lot (in the short term). I'm sure we all saw what Krokodil does to people, but here the methaqualone maker complains of urinating blood and HM mentioning that one of the precursors is known to cause bladder cancer,

I seriously doubt that the makers of either compound has a reasonable life expectancy, which tells you how they are prepared to swap the awful quantity for a short quality. Upsetting is the best term I can think of. I also know that Soviets used to make methcathinone from pseudoephedrine and Russians still abuse tropicamide (eye drops). A drug referred to as ' трехмесячный' (3 monther - life expectancy).

We keep hearing hearing about these crazy, dangerous drugs but I wonder how many more simply do not make it into mass media.

Anyway - it's an interesting watch. Ask yourself if you would touch THAT product. I don't know where the ABBA (N-acetyl anthranilic acid) came from, but it looks like coal!

 

[mdaniel80]

I def wouldn't say he has "none" but his knowledge in pharmacology is def more legit. I am a fan

 

[G_Chem]

“Evidently someone less photogenic is responsible for his technical pronouncements.”

Jesus that guy must look like a foot.

Hamilton grew on me. I used to absolutely despise him (watch his Sapo Doc, he’s such an ass to the natives it makes me cringe) but his Pharmacopoeia show was a great one to watch. He’s grown a lot through his use of psychedelics.

-GC

 

[mdaniel80]

Let me begin by saying I am no fan of Hamilton Morris, he's a journalist who infers that he has some knowledge of organic chemistry. He has NONE. Evidently someone less photogenic is responsible for his technical pronouncements.

But I WAS interested by a small section on his investigation into the abuse of methaqualone in South Africa. It's not synthetically complex but the official precursors are tightly controlled. 37.30-42.32 IS interesting.



Now, of not practical interest since the precursors are so tightly controlled but rather than needing PCl5 or polyphosphoric acid to dehydrate the reaction, it's driven thermally i.e. a molecule of water is driven off as steam.

It reminds me of how the Russians managed to make desoxymorphine (badly) from codeine using iodine & red phosphorous and using brick cleaner (HCl), caustic soda and gasoline to first isolate the codeine.

A testament to the human imagination. Neither reaction was ever in a formal paper or even in a paper-mill article. Someone simply used logic and possibly a pencil and paper to work it out,

When you SEE the product I am confident that nobody is about to try this (or I wouldn't have posted) but in both cases it's poor, marginalised groups using the little knowledge they obtained via word of mouth to better their lot (in the short term). I'm sure we all saw what Krokodil does to people, but here the methaqualone maker complains of urinating blood and HM mentioning that one of the precursors is known to cause bladder cancer,

I seriously doubt that the makers of either compound has a reasonable life expectancy, which tells you how they are prepared to swap the awful quantity for a short quality. Upsetting is the best term I can think of. I also know that Soviets used to make methcathinone from pseudoephedrine and Russians still abuse tropicamide (eye drops). A drug referred to as ' трехмесячный' (3 monther - life expectancy).

We keep hearing hearing about these crazy, dangerous drugs but I wonder how many more simply do not make it into mass media.

Anyway - it's an interesting watch. Ask yourself if you would touch THAT product. I don't know where the ABBA (N-acetyl anthranilic acid) came from, but it looks like coal!

You give folks a lot of credit.

“complains of urinating blood and HM mentioning that one of the precursors is known to cause bladder cancer,”

Take a gander a r/ketamine on Reddit. Lots of people over there abusing the fuck out of ketamine, pissing blood in severe bladder pain, still using a gram a day plus.

People looking for a fix can be blatantly ignorant. I run an FB Kratom group. Guy brings up Iboga, first comments are “where can I buy it” from folks with 0 clue what it is. A week ago someone explains how bad their phenibut withdrawal was, 3rd comment in the thread “what is the high like? Do you have a source?”

 

[mdaniel80]

“Evidently someone less photogenic is responsible for his technical pronouncements.”

Jesus that guy must look like a foot.

Hamilton grew on me. I used to absolutely despise him (watch his Sapo Doc, he’s such an ass to the natives it makes me cringe) but his Pharmacopoeia show was a great one to watch. He’s grown a lot through his use of psychedelics.

-GC

Now I’m gonna watch that doc. I love Morris and am interested to see a pre-enlightened version of him

 

[Fertile]

If you consume a drug to excess, expect a negative outcome. But just inhaling the fumes of O-toluidine is enough. That's a whole extra level of toxic. The guy was making it outside as well, He seemed unaware of the risk... which doesn't bode well for the product.

But I have to say that MOST clandestine labs are a total mess. Nothing will put you off street drugs faster than seeing where. how and by who they are produced.

 

[G_Chem]

Now I’m gonna watch that doc. I love Morris and am interested to see a pre-enlightened version of him

There’s one part in particular where the natives make him like a doll or something, he kinda scoffs at it like “we gave them all this food and supplies and this is what we got..” It’s like dude… these people just gave you their hut for your scrawny ass to lay in for a week and this is how you act?

-GC

 

[Snafu in the Void]

“Evidently someone less photogenic is responsible for his technical pronouncements.”

Jesus that guy must look like a foot.

Hamilton grew on me. I used to absolutely despise him (watch his Sapo Doc, he’s such an ass to the natives it makes me cringe) but his Pharmacopoeia show was a great one to watch. He’s grown a lot through his use of psychedelics.

-GC

Yeah, that episode was kinda cringey. He was also smoking JWH cannabinoids during that, lol. He was only like 19 or 20 at the time, just a kid really.

He has matured quite a bit. I love the guy.

 

[blistersinthedark]

He was supposed to give a chemistry talk at this psychedelic conference (Wonderland) not long ago and ended up ranting about academics, journalists and researchers who have been (rightly) raising concerns about the corporate takeover of the psychedelic space as well as the enabling and protection of sexual predators among psychedelic therapists, and questioning the facile notion that taking psychedelics inherently make you a better person. Namely trashing the work of fellow former Vice writer Shayla Love and getting really mad at the people behind Psymposia and sounding like your conservative uncle ranting about "the wokes". Absolutely pitiful.

Perhaps it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise considering he's made a career out of placing himself front and center of all the reporting he does on psychedelics, which, it should be mentioned, he had a lot of people helping him out with, including an intern he reportedly treated like dogshit as he was struggling with addiction and who ended up dying of an opioid overdose. Going to work for Compass was the last straw for me — I've lost all respect for him at this point.

 

[Skorpio]

There was some really early print interview with a Brooklyn kombucha seller where Morris was trying to be edgey and asked them if they saw their rival choking on vomit in an alley, would they let their rival die to extinguish the competition, and the kombucha cat got very upset. Was funny and cringey.

 

[Fertile]

I have to agree with you blistersinthedark. When he was in a lab, everything still had to make it look like he was the expert.

Did anyone see the piece on efavirenz (HIV medication) being smoked in South Africa. He gingerly begins to crush a tablet of the medicine and then, as he explains 'we are using a WHOLE pill' just as his bit of rolled up paper (impromptu replacement for a Pyrex funnel) spills some of the powder. It's cut just as the medicinal chemist is taking everything off him.

If you wish to perform quantitative as well as qualitative research, spilling some onto the bench isn't too sharp. He then goes on to explain how a water-trap is 'kind of like a bong'. OK, efavirenz cannot form addition salts, but it's MP is 134-136°C so those multiple traps were carefully designed to separate out different products.... in case applying a flame results in a chemical change. Someone really thought that through, but you never actually see who it is...

I would think if you have a medicinal chemist doing this work, you would ask them what the experiment was designed to do. But it isn't mentioned.

https://ibb.co/zSwZHGm

In the above picture we can see 4 chemicals... and 3 errors.

 

[yaesutom]

Hey, nobody is perfect. When your famous and have to broadcast to a wide audience, I’d imagine you have to try and modify things certain ways. I don’t know if he’s a dick behind the scenes - but a while before he was famous he DMed me, asking about the beginnings of the 4-AcO-DMT trend. I happened to be the person that first got a Chinese lab to produce a small amount for me (custom synth) and seemed deeply into it just for curiosity. All it was, was at the time none of the companies offered it because they all thought it was too close to psilocin. Also they had a hard time making it into salt form (except for oxalate) so I gave them links to a synth with fumarate.

Ever since then now it seems all the companies make fumarate salts of tryptamines. So Hamilton was curious wanted to see the email to them etc.

idk, I get he has a certain personality like he thinks it’s dumb people in psych communities are too obsessed with plants or too into thinking plant psychedelics are superior. I agree with that except I do think certain ones “feel” more natural and better but I don’t think it has to do with some plant spirits crap.

I’m an awkward person and sometimes the best intentions don’t always play out even when you try to appease people or not offend. Especially if there’s any autistic traits.

I’ve enjoyed his shows. He did have the inventor of vyvanse on a podcast… I remember thinking “why does he have to make this sound better than the simple thing it is” but turns out, that guy is super into chemistry, has eaten plenty of psychedelics (unique ones) himself and sounded pretty awesome and just got lucky that they happened to make that one into a drug.

I have a feeling that a lot of pharma companies must have a secret thing going on where they illegally have a person eat some new drug to test for how it feels before they go further with it.

How else would they know which benzos were the right feeling analogs? They can’t ask a rat. Or which other new anti depressants have crazy annoying side effects etc. seems like the cheapest thing to do would be for a willing chemist to eat some.

 

[negrogesic]

Yeah, its interesting to see the evolution of him assuming the role of "scientist" as the series goes on over time.

If you recall, the first videos he made he did from the perspective of a journalist. Over time he increasingly began adopting the persona of a "scientist", allowing people to refer to him as such and even introducing himself in that manner (eventually reaching theatrical proportions).

In that episode about mescaline containing cacti, they briefly show his "scientific notebook", which contained theatrically and unnecessarily convoluted formulas calculating surface area and other geometric aspects of cacti (presented in such a manner for no other reason than to appear complex, yet having zero value). In that episode he was also going around introducing himself as a scientist. That's was the last episode I saw (in fact I didn't even make it through that one).

To a hipster trust fund kid in Brooklyn I'm sure Hamilton Morris definitely seems like a scientist, but oddly Hamilton Morris seems to have drank his own kool-aid and appears to believe it himself.

The things of interest in his show occur when he isn't talking. Its the footage of unique things. He should have maintained the role of journalist because that is what he is.

A scientist, in the modern age, is one with an extensive academic background, works with others and publishes their findings.

He had a bl account a while back, maybe more than one, I remember he got all defensive when someone alluded to something about his series only resulting from connections through his father (or something to that extent).

 

[Skorpio]

Yeah, its interesting to see the evolution of him assuming the role of "scientist" as the series goes on over time.

If you recall, the first videos he made he did from the perspective of a journalist. Over time he increasingly began adopting the persona of a "scientist", allowing people to refer to him as such and even introducing himself in that manner (eventually reaching theatrical proportions).

In that episode about mescaline containing cacti, they briefly show his "scientific notebook", which contained theatrically and unnecessarily convoluted formulas calculating surface area and other geometric aspects of cacti (presented in such a manner for no other reason than to appear complex, yet having zero value). In that episode he was also going around introducing himself as a scientist. That's was the last episode I saw (in fact I didn't even make it through that one).

To a hipster trust fund kid in Brooklyn I'm sure Hammilton Morris definitely seems like a scientist, but oddly Hammilton Morris seems to have drank his own kool-aid and appears to believe it himself.

The things of interest in his show occur when he isn't talking. Its the footage of unique things. He should have maintained the role of journalist because that is what he is.

A scientist, in the modern age, is one with an extensive academic background, works with others and publishes their findings.

He had a bl account a while back, maybe more than one, I remember he got all defensive when someone alluded to something about his series only resulting from connections through his father (or something to that extent).

There's an interview where he is asked how he got into drugs journalism, and he was just like "I followed my dreams and started it up, anybody can do that."

Well it helps if your father makes academy award winning documentaries.

 

[Fertile]

The thing is, a medicinal chemist will gain an intimate knowledge of the structure and activity of the class of compound being developed, but it isn't remembering ANYTHING that can simply be looked up.

I have no problem with the guy as a journalist. He's more than capable. But the insinuation that he's an expert is worrying, especially when he's so vague on the topics of which he speaks. If you were attempting to suggest you were an expert on opioids and drew pretty structures as your backdrop... wouldn't you make 100% certain that they are correct? Even if you had only studied chemistry to high school level, wouldn't you make sure?

These days a lot of RC vendors really have n o idea of how a given scaffold behaves so they ARE the kind of people who might just copy a structure from an image and have it made. They make bold (mis-)steps because instead of changing the very least to generate and explore the QSAR of a scaffold, they attempt to provoke a totally different activity - often in cases where asking would have saved a lot of money but more importantly, it would save people from being put in harms way.

 

[Skorpio]

All that being said, I am glad there is a drug nerd with pretty big exposure in the media who at least avoids a lot of more new agey stuff which can come with the territory.

I have certainly had conversations with very normal people about drugs due to them watching episodes of that show, and I think they were a lot more open to a dialogue.

 

[Fertile]

I have to agree with you these - we SHOULD count our blessings!

Looking at their writings, their is or at least was a symbiotic relationship between Vice & HM. It's much better copy so state 'In House chemist Hamilton Morris' than 'Our journalist in the field of psychoactive drugs Hamilton Morris'. Half as many words to begin with!

Nichols used HM to drive home the dangers of the NBOMe class, Nutt did so because he's a media whore ;-) They were both using him to get what they wated.

Thinking about it, it's because my mother was a journalist and then a newspaper editor. Everyone you interview wants to get something out of it. As a child I got dragged along so I got to see the mechanics over and over again. As far as she was concerned, it got her the requisite number of words... but some people were a bit odd. A child drowned and the child's mother insisted they put off the interview/photographs until she could get her hair done. Even aged about 6 I thought their was something deeply wrong going on The same child had been seriously injured several times to the point where all of the journalists ran a bet on WHEN he would end up dead. Dark, but what could they do? Worry?

So it's quite possible that I'm subconsciously wondering what the motivation is.

 

[fastandbulbous]

He did add bits tothe interview I did with him, without being shown first. Most didn't bother me, but I wish he had left my accident as my own fault, rather than blaming others. Anonimity, by all means, but not happy with making stuff up.

 

[Delmonte421]

The thing is, a medicinal chemist will gain an intimate knowledge of the structure and activity of the class of compound being developed, but it isn't remembering ANYTHING that can simply be looked up.

I have no problem with the guy as a journalist. He's more than capable. But the insinuation that he's an expert is worrying, especially when he's so vague on the topics of which he speaks. If you were attempting to suggest you were an expert on opioids and drew pretty structures as your backdrop... wouldn't you make 100% certain that they are correct? Even if you had only studied chemistry to high school level, wouldn't you make sure?

These days a lot of RC vendors really have n o idea of how a given scaffold behaves so they ARE the kind of people who might just copy a structure from an image and have it made. They make bold (mis-)steps because instead of changing the very least to generate and explore the QSAR of a scaffold, they attempt to provoke a totally different activity - often in cases where asking would have saved a lot of money but more importantly, it would save people from being put in harms way.

not everyone thinks like you do as they just want to see the money and careless about the end user.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I have to agree with you these - we SHOULD count our blessings!

Looking at their writings, their is or at least was a symbiotic relationship between Vice & HM. It's much better copy so state 'In House chemist Hamilton Morris' than 'Our journalist in the field of psychoactive drugs Hamilton Morris'. Half as many words to begin with!

Nichols used HM to drive home the dangers of the NBOMe class, Nutt did so because he's a media whore ;-) They were both using him to get what they wated.

Thinking about it, it's because my mother was a journalist and then a newspaper editor. Everyone you interview wants to get something out of it. As a child I got dragged along so I got to see the mechanics over and over again. As far as she was concerned, it got her the requisite number of words... but some people were a bit odd. A child drowned and the child's mother insisted they put off the interview/photographs until she could get her hair done. Even aged about 6 I thought their was something deeply wrong going on The same child had been seriously injured several times to the point where all of the journalists ran a bet on WHEN he would end up dead. Dark, but what could they do? Worry?

So it's quite possible that I'm subconsciously wondering what the motivation is.

I did the interview purely because I was asked. Admittedly, my bit about a dissociative that was a bit more bladder friendly was part, but mainly mxe came about because of self interest (and a certain amount of guilt when I found our about the first mxe linked fatality). That it proved so good is pure serendipity.