Very low dose of MDMA on a normal night out - safe to do this frequently?

[ReincePriebus]

Last night I went to a few bars with some close friends (who were just drinking), so as is customary for me now for nights like that, I ate about a third of a tab of acid in the middle of the afternoon - (I find this low dose has a light stimulant effect which stops me getting sleepy from the alcohol, makes me wittier and a better conversationalist, and gives the night an overall more interesting edge, check out the lsd low-dose appreciation thread if you havent heard of this before.)

then, after a few beers when getting ready to go out, i for whatever reason decided to bomb about 35mg of pure mdma. added a nice warmth to how I was feeling, plus opened me up slightly without making me venture into the territory of embarrassing confessions, and stopped me from getting pissed off by crowds of drunk people, not to mention prevented the grumpiness and urge to go home I get after the initial alcohol buzz wears off on nights when I just drink.

All in all, great experience - way better time than just drinking, saved money of course, and it was a drug cocktail i was able to enjoy with my non-druggy friends without them realising at all. The question is though, how safe is this sort of dose for frequent use? I was considering stopping using mdma anyway, not that I have ever abused it - only rolled four times ever, spaced a few months apart, but maybe I will just keep it around and use it at this very low dose once every 1-2 weeks. alternatively I could continue to roll every 2 months or so and do this once or twice in between. thoughts?

 

[Folley]

No. That's called drug addiction, and is a sure fired way to lose the magic real quick.


Learn to enjoy life sober.. you might just be surprised at what you see.

 

[JWills20]

No. That's called drug addiction

No. Drug addiction is the continued use of a mood altering substance or behavior despite adverse dependency consequences, or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors. (Definition from Wiki). None of which the OP reports in his one night of poly drug experimentation.

and is a sure fired way to lose the magic real quick.

35mg is barely a threshold dose so you wouldn't even be releasing much serotonin. How is that going to cause a loss of magic?

Learn to enjoy life sober.. you might just be surprised at what you see.

So now you're adopting a prohibitionist point of view and advocating against recreational drug use?

@OP I'd imagine that the 35mg of MDMA might be providing a light placebo effect combined with your already intoxicated mind space. 35mg is, for many, a sub-threshold dose that wouldn't be particularly noticeable.

I don't think consuming a low dose of MDMA weekly is particularly dangerous, infact I read that it may be somewhat beneficial (One report on Erowid about back-pain reduction & a journal). As Folley once stated - we don't know enough about the serotonergic system as a whole to completely understand the mechanisms behind why low doses may be positive. Neither do we know enough as to whether regular consumption of low doses would effect the 'magic' of a usual recreational dose.

Maybe try 35mg of MDMA sober? Just to test for the placebo effect. Personally, i'd say its safe to take once every 1-2 weeks as you intend to. However, most people would report underwhelming effect or no effect from 35mg. Are you testing your products? Chemicals such as 2-CB are psychoactive at much lower doses and can provide similar feelings to MDMA.

 

[Folley]

So now you're adopting a prohibitionist point of view and advocating against recreational drug use?

...... the fuck are you talking about....?


I'm talking about taking a 35mg dose EVERY WEEK, as mentioned in the OP. I never said taking one low dose was "addiction", but taking drugs EVERY week to go out to a club reeks of drug habituation, which is why I recommend he does not do it. Low doses cause serotonin release just like high doses. While it obviously isn't as much, it is still there and if you kept if up for long periods of time you would likely get the same kinds of negative effects that you get from higher doses.

Obviously this will not be as pronounced, but you are still going to be developing tolerance to the drug for an experience that you will not get much out of.



is he going to go out on the street begging to suck dick for 25mg of MDMA? No, of course not. But relying on drugs to "open you up" EVERY WEEK is a VERY slippery slope, and could easily lead to taking much higher doses that often.

If you need to go out to a club every week, learn to enjoy it without drugs. That way when the GOOD shows with big named DJs come out, you can roll balls and not be disappointed by the lackluster experience. If that's just not an option though, I would really find another drug to supplement your nights like that. MDMA is not safe for frequent use.. I don't really care how low the dose is.

2C-B would be perfect for those nights, even 5mg can open you up greatly, plus it does not have the inherit neurotoxicity that MDMA has.

 

[laugh]

welcome to bl reincepriebus!

personally, i cant see the point in dosing either drug so low, are you aware of the placebo effect?

for the situation you describe i would prefer coke, caffeine, or even dex.

 

[BlueHues]

The serotonin police in full effect....

 

[laugh]

how you been dude, havnt seen you around as much lately?

 

[BlueHues]

^Well, not the best few months, but things go up and down! thanks for asking, I always enjoy your posts, man!

I couldn't resist bust my boy Folley's balls a lil' bit!

 

[laugh]

lol.

yeh, life is an up and down game. good to see you around again!

 

[matt2012]

If the OP liked it, who am I to say 35mg is not enough?

but every week? you are asking for lot of bad effects for little return. you are still going to build a tolerance to MDMA even at that low dose so when you want to roll you are going to need more than your normal dose. and I doubt you can exscape the other bad effects this way either. it may take longer but anxiety and depression and the dreaded loss of magic will be along soon enough if you are eating MDMA once a week no matter how low the dose

 

[BlueHues]

If you're gonna do it 35mg seems a bit on the low end....as I've stated before, I only fuck with MDMA 1-2 times a year at this point, but it's really for practical reasons....It's just not something you can do even once a week and get good results from....A lot of other drugs you can do 100 times a year and get high every time, but this just isnt one of them...Shit, if it was possible, I'd do it!

Of course, you can increase your dose ridiculously for a few months and it works for awhile, but the side effects DO suck! You will become depressed and despondent....Of course, everyone seems to have to figure this out for themselves and thats kind of my point....

Although, they do use MDMA for PTSD now....I'm kind of curious of what the dosing schedule is like when used in that context...

Anyone got a link?

 

[JWills20]

...... the fuck are you talking about....?

You're telling him to stop taking drugs and enjoy life sober. That's not HR, thats prohibition.

I'm talking about taking a 35mg dose EVERY WEEK, as mentioned in the OP. I never said taking one low dose was "addiction", but taking drugs EVERY week to go out to a club reeks of drug habituation, which is why I recommend he does not do it. Low doses cause serotonin release just like high doses. While it obviously isn't as much, it is still there and if you kept if up for long periods of time you would likely get the same kinds of negative effects that you get from higher doses.

If you regard addiction as taking a drug once a week, I'd imagine most people in the world are addicted to a substance. What about the drinkers who go out 2-3 times a week? I suppose there heavily addicted?

Obviously this will not be as pronounced, but you are still going to be developing tolerance to the drug for an experience that you will not get much out of.

This doesn't make sense. Taking a dose that is generally valued as 'sub-psychoactive' is not going to cause a significant change upon the CNS as you're not changing its chemistry significantly. Hence why I suggested that it is probably a placebo effect.

is he going to go out on the street begging to suck dick for 25mg of MDMA? No, of course not. But relying on drugs to "open you up" EVERY WEEK is a VERY slippery slope, and could easily lead to taking much higher doses that often.

Where does he state that he relies on drugs to 'open up' every week? You're making flawed assumptions based on a single post.

If you need to go out to a club every week, learn to enjoy it without drugs. That way when the GOOD shows with big named DJs come out, you can roll balls and not be disappointed by the lackluster experience. If that's just not an option though, I would really find another drug to supplement your nights like that. MDMA is not safe for frequent use.. I don't really care how low the dose is.

This is your opinion, don't state it as fact. If the OP wants to go out each week and take a small dose, who are you to judge that? I'll repeat myself - low doses of MDMA have been shown to have a positive effect. I'm sure we discussed this in another thread a while back. The concept of neuroplasticity is in a peer-reviewed journal.

2C-B would be perfect for those nights, even 5mg can open you up greatly, plus it does not have the inherit neurotoxicity that MDMA has.

Inherent neurotoxicity? Maybe in ridiculously high doses. In the research you'd notice there is a difference between standard 'recreational' doses & 'neurotoxic' doses. Neurotoxic doses are often like 5mg/kg. A fair longshot off 35mg of MDMA, unless the OP weighs 7Kg.

 

[ReincePriebus]

I have a great source for drugs, everything I have is pure, I can guarantee it was not 2cb.
I really don't see how this could be termed addiction any more than you could call someone who has 2-3 beers a few times a week an alcoholic...
All I want to find out is how this could affect my proper rolls, but to be honest the last couple times I rolled I have felt slightly dissapointed at the end, and that was not from any loss of magic, just disliking the contrast between feeling so great and the inevitable return to baseline, so maybe I will limit my mdma use to this kind of thing. I've always been a fan of moderation anyway.
But it looks like very few people have tried this sort of thing so there isnt much information on the long term effects. so here's what I might do. I'll potentially stop rolling properly, and just use psychedelics for the big club nights. I'll do this sort of dose once every two weeks on nights like I described, as I do agree with matt2012 that even at a low dose once a week could be asking for trouble, well nothing serious but some unwanted tolerance developing. And I'll report back in a while.
What I hope is that this sort of use may actually enhance my social life in the way i thought would happen when I started rolling, but quickly realised that you either spend the night dancing in a loud club which is fun but you dont actually get to know people, or you sit around in someone's room just listening to music and hugging or whatever, which again is great but doesnt get you out there meeting loads of people, whether they take drugs or not.

 

[Darksidesam]

up to you op but id up the dose and decrease frequency

 

[Folley]

Alright, I'm going to clarify here.


I was not calling the OP an addict... I'm sorry it came across like that, I made my original post much too hastily. The point I'm trying to make is that using weekly for long periods of time often leads to habituation of use, where you'll go out and bomb a dose at the club just because it feels normal to at that point. I'm not trying to knock a low dose, if the OP gets enjoyment out of such a small dose... well FUCK, he must have a lot better product than I do.

This is your opinion, don't state it as fact. If the OP wants to go out each week and take a small dose, who are you to judge that? I'll repeat myself - low doses of MDMA have been shown to have a positive effect. I'm sure we discussed this in another thread a while back. The concept of neuroplasticity is in a peer-reviewed journal.

High doses of MDMA can have positive effect... taking LSD every day for months on end can have "positive effects". Having an IV pump you full of DMT for a week straight would have some "positive effects" too.... that doesn't mean you should do it. I have NO problem with the OP taking small doses... why the hell would I? The problem is that is he going to be taking it much too often if he does it at a weekly rate. Every two weeks is better, but even then.... kind of pushing it IMO.

But it looks like very few people have tried this sort of thing so there isnt much information on the long term effects. so here's what I might do. I'll potentially stop rolling properly, and just use psychedelics for the big club nights. I'll do this sort of dose once every two weeks on nights like I described, as I do agree with matt2012 that even at a low dose once a week could be asking for trouble, well nothing serious but some unwanted tolerance developing. And I'll report back in a while.

This is where my main concern was. You taking low doses every week you weren't taking larger doses, and still dropping the big doses as soon as the "one month" wait was over.

If you don't care about lessening the "main" experience and can get better (for you) effects from lower doses, I'm all for it and wouldn't want to hold you back. I just don't want you doing it too often... so if you do choose to test this out, do make sure you're still getting plenty of rest and recovery time after.




Honestly though, OP, I think you'd be much better off doing other drugs. If you want a nice light experience to open you up... I don't see MDMA doing a great job of filling that gap That's just from my experiences with it though. I would think 2C-B in low doses would be much better, and actually would recommend methylone to you..... normally, I would NEVER do that, but considering it has 1/3 the serotonin release as MDMA, but most of the same effects just in a much lighter way.. I think it could be perfect for what you want to use it for, and may actually be safer with more frequent use.



I do want to say I'm sorry to the OP though, I could have made my point in a MUCH better way, without calling you an "addict" (loaded word, anyways..). I guess this just hits a bit close to home for me, most people wouldn't consider taking MDMA every week addiction... but really, that's the only way an MDMA addict can get his "fix". Taking it everyday sure as hell won't work, so instead of addiction in the sense of the word that you apply to heroin users, it's more of an extreme drug habituation that becomes extremely hard to stop once it's begun.

I don't know you OP, so I can't say if you'll go down that road. I was just trying to say, using MDMA weekly, even at low does, is a very slippery slope that could led to much more serious problem later.

 

[n2n]

Reince, I know your sad you lost the election but drugs aren't the answer. Start liking drinking save the e for a rainy day.

 

[laugh]

Yes some amount of tolly will develop with frequent/consistent use. Small use > small tolly.

Again imo if all you are wanting is enhance your social life I believe there to be better options than very low dose mdma.

Please do report back though.

 

[fakeplastictrees4]

No. That's called drug addiction, and is a sure fired way to lose the magic real quick.


Learn to enjoy life sober.. you might just be surprised at what you see.

Your posts in the social thread seem to contradict your statement of 'learn to enjoy life sober' ...theres that whole, be the change you want to see in the world thing you might be missing out on.

 

[Folley]

Your posts in the social thread seem to contradict your statement of 'learn to enjoy life sober' ...theres that whole, be the change you want to see in the world thing you might be missing out on.

and which post would that be?

I haven't rolled in a month and a half (it will be over 2 months by the time I dose next) and haven't taken any other drugs besides weed and small amounts of alcohol for a month even though I have PLENTY around. I don't even smoke as often as I used to, I've been cutting back extremely on that part and don't drink more than once a week and even then it's only small amounts.

I just don't understand why people ALWAYS need drugs to go to the club.. wouldn't it be worthwhile to go there and learn how to have a good time without pumping yourself full of chemicals? Hell, it's sure cheaper.

 

[Pretty_Diamonds]

Everyone is being so mean to Folley.

OP, I think that you should be fine doing 35mgs once every two weeks or so. But, who knows? I guess the only risk is you becoming addicted to MDMA. You'll start increasing your dosage, frequency, need to take some MDMA every time you drink, etc. There's a lot of risk in your plan even though it seems like something really minor. It always starts off small but grows and grows till you're staring addiction right in the face. But goodluck! Remember to keep yourself in check. MDMA can be your best friend or your enemy. ^.^