• Life Advice & Visual Arts Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    🌌 Share Your Dreams! 🌌
    📸 15 Years of Photo Contests 📸
  • LAVA Moderator: Shinji Ikari

veganism and pets?

^I understand what you are saying, but I strongly disagree with the idea that it is wrong to keep cats indoors.
Cats ARE domesticated animals. If a cat is raised in the wild that is one thing...but most cats are used to being inside.

I used to work at an SPCA shelter. You do not even want to know the things I have seen while working there. The world is NOT a safe place for cats that run free. Mankind has changed the world and animals are not just equel in society like humans are.

At the shelter I saw cats that had been HORRIBLY abused by people..cats that had been shot, cats that had been run over by cars and left for dead..even cats that had been LIT ON FIRE by cruel people who think they are funny. These cats could NOT defend themselves.

I think that if you love your cat, you keep him/her inside where it's safe. Mine is perfectly happy! :)

EDIT- Just wanted to add that I was vegetarian for a year..never had any health problems. In fact, my skin was perfectly clear and I never got sick! I wish I had stuck to it. Maybe I will be again one day..
 
Last edited:
i'm getting off topic but...mynameisnotdeja - if you want to see the horrible abuse of animals, check out meat, dairy, gelatin, honey and egg farming...i don't know about your personal diet, but if you eat any of these products, you should seriously question your commitment to the prevention of animal cruelty. furthermore, is it right to feed your cat animal products and support these abuses? no.

but back to the topic. i will never buy an animal if i lived in a city. even though they are domesticated, locking an animal inside all day is not natural, its selfish. solution; don't have a pet in the city.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by MynameisnotDeja

Cats ARE domesticated animals. If a cat is raised in the wild that is one thing...but most cats are used to being inside.

Click to expand...

exactly : it's all a habit, i guess. when you find yourself a young kitten and you keep it in your house ....i am sure the cat CAN have a happy life, maybe happier then outside ( they might get ran over by a car or so ) you never know.
Personally I prefer to keep the number of non human animals in my house as low as possible.
 
i gave earlier in the thread the example of our own cats who ran away and obviously adapted without problem to the wild life since we saw them again several times
i'm not saying to open the door and put your cat outside if you live in a city, even though wild cats can survive in a city
i believe domesticated cats should be released in the country
i even agree with "pseudo-domestication" in the country = if you live in a house where the cat stays by choice and can leave anytime
 
Cats are usually able to hunt for food by themselves. You can always let it out and let it hunt for its own food as well as feeding it with whatever you choose. I think people who keep their cats indoors all the time are assholes, unless they live in an apartment building where the cat can't freely come back easily. Otherwise, a cat needs excercise and survival skills and not be some declawed piece of fur thats too fat to move and can't catch anything moving faster than a turtle.
 
Domesticated cats released into the country = feral cats who kill native wildlife.

Choose your poison!
Click to expand...
you mean like choose between having the cat kill some mice and birds to survive or having humans kill cows, chicken, lambs and fish raised in intensive farming to make cat food that you will give to your cat?

that's what you meant?
ok, i've chosen!

oooh the big nasty feral cat who's going to kill absolutely all native wildlife where it goes!!!
jokes go to the lounge usually
 
gave earlier in the thread the example of our own cats who ran away and obviously adapted without problem to the wild life since we saw them again several times
i'm not saying to open the door and put your cat outside if you live in a city, even though wild cats can survive in a city
i believe domesticated cats should be released in the country
i even agree with "pseudo-domestication" in the country = if you live in a house where the cat stays by choice and can leave anytime
Click to expand...

I strongly argree with alot of things you have said in this thread, but i feel your painting a picture of one individuals exsperience. im happy that your animals who were released into the wild survived. To me that is a wonderful thing, to see them year after year forging a life for themselves in a more native habitate. Unfortunately, i grew up in oklahoma, and i have seen semi domesticated cats who live on a farm and are just as likely to die by farming equiptment or starvation even the occasional bad child violating its person just like they are in a city. The truth is, at least for me, that cats for a long time havnt had a natural habitate. to release one into the wild is irresponsible. Cats have been on a steady process of domestication since arkaadan times before egypt rose as a civilization. I dont think this is right but it is a fact. I know it isnt right to feed a cat a diet i choose for myself i should at least give the option for the cat to choose a diet it wants. But i do not see any problems taking in a cat who is injured or who is definetly not capable of living in the wild because of previous domestication. I wouldnt however take a new born kitten and lock him away in my home. i dont feel that is right either. I would love to hear your views on taking in a pet from the shelter. your opinions of course, seem very sound, you seem like you come to your conclusions based on alot of fact and person integrity. i would like to know your opinion on a few things

1. How do you feel about taking in a previously domesticated animal with no living skills for the wild

2. how do you feel about taking in a cat who was injured and will definetly not make it in the wild?

3. how do you feel about cat owners who have an open door policy with there felines. allowing them to come and go as they please. allowing them even the option of hunting locally if they choose not to eat the things you buy for them

4. how do you feel about a feral cat choosing a life of domestication.

the last question is something that happened to me. my cat was a feral outside cat but he kept comming around our house looking inside. we offered a bit of food for it when it was looking lean. and over time, around 3 years, the cat adopted us. it took even longer for the cat to want to socialize with us but we gave it the time and space to do it. eventually the cat was very affectionate with us on its own terms without our imposing our want on it.


-phil-
thanks in advance
 
Originally posted by vegan
you mean like choose between having the cat kill some mice and birds to survive or having humans kill cows, chicken, lambs and fish raised in intensive farming to make cat food that you will give to your cat?

that's what you meant?
ok, i've chosen!

oooh the big nasty feral cat who's going to kill absolutely all native wildlife where it goes!!!
jokes go to the lounge usually


8)

So you'd rather put a domesticated animal who's not harming anyone or anything and having a nice relaxing life into an environment it's not familiar with, subsequently have it kill native animals (which in Australia includes koalas, endangered birds, sugar gliders, lizards, etc) and breed more feral cats to kill more native animals solely because you have a moral objection to it living with people who love it?

And somehow you can justify this by saying that humans kill cows and lambs?

Que?
 
There are a good number of options you can pursue if you really really don't want to feed your kitties meat. I recently got another catalog from PETA listing some of the vegan varieties of cat food as well as other food. Unfortunately, I don't have the list available right now. If you visit PETA's website, you can request a free "friendly consumer" pack. You'll get a list of regular vegan items like bags and clothes as well as a list of general consumer brands that do/don't test on animals...inside is a section on animal foods.

However, while I am a vegan as well I still feed my cat food with meat in it until I can find an alternative that will fit his diet. It's true, cats are natural meat eaters so it really is a rather difficult restriction to place on their diets. In addition, I have a male cat who has urinary tract problems and thus far the only food I've found to cater to this problem is a Purina One brand.

Your best bet may be to go with a company that at least doesn't test on animals (yeah, even companies that are supposed to be catering to our animal companions are really really cruel to animals) until you can find an alternative.

http://vegancats.com/

Excerpt from PETA factsheet:
If you have been feeding your companion animals commercial pet foods, you may be jeopardizing their health. Supermarket pet foods are often composed of ground-up parts of animals deemed by Agriculture Department inspectors unfit for human consumption. The flesh of animals who fall into one of the categories of the four D’s – dead, dying, diseased, or disabled – is what often goes into pet food. Many of these animals have died of infections, dehydration, or exposure to extreme heat or cold. In all but a few states, it is legal to remove unusable parts from chickens and sell them to pet food manufacturers. For example, some cheap or generic kibble-type dog food contains ground-up feathers. In the chicken inspection lines, deformed or tumorous legs are often cut off and put in a separate area for nonhuman consumption. Also, most pet foods contain the same hormones, pesticides, and antibiotics that are found in commercial meat products for humans. If you are concerned about your companion animals’ health and about the cruelties of the meat industry, now is the time to stop buying meat-based pet food.


Commercial Vegan Dog and Cat Food

Below is a list of companies that sell vegan dog and/or cat food.

Boss Bars
P.O. Box 517
Patagonia, AZ 85624
888-207-9114, fax: 888-207-9114
(100% certified organic dog biscuits, 4 flavors, including wheat- and corn-free)

Evolution
287 E. 6th St., Ste. 70
St.Paul, MN 55101
800-659-0104
651-228-0632
(Dog and cat kibble and canned food, ferret kibble, fish food)

Harbingers of a New Age
717 E. Missoula Ave.
Troy, MT 59935
406-295-4944
(Vegecat, Vegekit, and Vegedog supplements, recipes for homemade vegan dog, cat, and kitten food, digestive enzymes, and acidifying nutritional yeast)

Natural Life Pet Products
1601 W. McKay
Frontenac, KS 66763
800-367-2391, fax: 316-231-0071
(Canned and kibble dog food)

Nature’s Recipe
341 Bonnie Cir.
Corona, CA 91720
800-843-4008, fax: 909-278-9727
(Canned and kibble dog food – call for closest distributor)

Pet Guard
P.O. Box 728
Orange Park, FL 32067-0728
800-874-3221, fax: 904-264-0802
(Canned dog food and biscuits, digestive enzymes)

Wow-Bow Distributors
13-B Lucon Dr.
Deer Park, NY 11729
516-254-6064, fax: 516-254-6036
(Canned and kibble dog food and biscuits, nutritional supplements)

Wysong Corporation
1880 N. Eastman Rd.
Midland, MI 48642
800-748-0188, fax: 517-631-8801
(Dog and cat kibble)

Hope that's of help!:D :D :D :D
 
1. How do you feel about taking in a previously domesticated animal with no living skills for the wild
Click to expand...
it's almost always the case
people usually don't go and catch a cat in the wild to domesticate it
to me it's the same as having it from birth, because the "no skills for the wild" argument is wishful thinking in my opinion.
i trust cats to have a way better capacity to adapt to the wild than humans for instance
2. how do you feel about taking in a cat who was injured and will definetly not make it in the wild?
Click to expand...
rather good
3. how do you feel about cat owners who have an open door policy with there felines. allowing them to come and go as they please. allowing them even the option of hunting locally if they choose not to eat the things you buy for them
Click to expand...
i have no problem with that at all
4. how do you feel about a feral cat choosing a life of domestication
Click to expand...
no problem as long as the domestication is with "open door policy"
So you'd rather put a domesticated animal who's not harming anyone or anything and having a nice relaxing life into an environment it's not familiar with, subsequently have it kill native animals (which in Australia includes koalas, endangered birds, sugar gliders, lizards, etc) and breed more feral cats to kill more native animals solely because you have a moral objection to it living with people who love it?

And somehow you can justify this by saying that humans kill cows and lambs?
Click to expand...
yes i'd rather put a ...

the cat's not hurting anyone
but humans are doing the harm in its place
in both cases, animals die and end up as food for the cat

in one case, those are free animals who've had a free life until then
in the other case, those are animals that have suffered all their lives in intensive farming.
the last ones are created for production, they would not exist and suffer if they were not planned to become cat food.

so yes, i prefer to let the cat kill "innocently" than to have humans raise their profits by making the life of the animals to be killed even more miserable


into an environment it's not familiar with, subsequently have it kill native animals (which in Australia includes koalas, endangered birds, sugar gliders, lizards, etc)
Click to expand...
for some reason you like to think of these cats as newly released in the wild, but you must be aware that release of cats doesn't really happen all the time
these cats that you call feral are just wild cats, totally familiar with their environment
they don't kill native animals any more or any less than other carnivores do, and i don't see you asking for the domestication of all carnivores to prevent them from hunting animals (since we have lamb for them in the fridge)

what's the big deal with koalas?
has the life of a koala more value for you than that of a cow?
why, because it's cute?
so if i see a better looking person than you, he'll have more the right to live than you?
because there are less numerous?
i live in catalonia. there are 6 billions catalans
does that mean that the life of a catalan has 3 times the value of that of an australian?
to the animal itself, its life has the same value be it in a population of millions or the last of its species
 
My references to specific native animals were just for information's sake, since you said "some mice and birds" in reference to native animals. Nothing to do with being better looking, I'm not a koala spokesperson or anything.

My problem isn't with carnivores killing other animals for food, it's with the idea of releasing already domesticated animals into an ecosystem that's not equipped for them, for a reason that I can't really identify with. Our cat eats kangaroo meat (kangaroo being a vermin) and kibble and is extremely humanised, I just feel that releasing him into the wild because I had a personal objection to slaughtering kangaroos would cause way more harm than good - if he didn't survive, I'd effectively be responsible for his death, which is bad. If he did survive, I'd be responsible for all the animals he killed for food or for the sake of hunting, which is also bad. I see more humanity in keeping him domesticated.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I just fail to understand your point of view.
 
it's really not that hard

a carnivorous animal in the wild causes less suffering than intensive farming does

living a free life (and being killed by a cat) is better than living in a cage (and being killed by humans)

and meanwhile, the domesticated animal, fed cat food coming from intensive farming, suffers from lack of freedom

kangaroo is a vermin?
how about humans?
aren't we the nastiest parasite the earth has ever had?
would that be an argument to justify killing humans?

how come you worry about your responsability for the animals your cat might kill for food and you don't worry about the dead ones you buy at the cat food store?

you're worried that your cat might get killed if you release him?
have you read my remark about the book by boris vian?
will you never you let your child out so he doesn't get hurt?
does preventing a low probability risk justify keeping someone locked?
 
all of these comments make me curious as to what you think about humans reproducing, vegan.
 
i dont expect anything. like i said... im curious as to what you think b/c of your comments.
 
it would be easier if you had expected something, cause if not, the question is rather large, a bit like "what do you think about art?"
either i write 2 pages or i answer "about the same as everyone else"
 
well you sure have been able to answer what you think about people caring for pets... but you cant answer what you think about people caring for children? you would rather me state my assumptions so you could tell me how horribly wrong i am i guess.
 
some questions are easier to answer than others
what do i think about people caring for children?
that's cool. point. end

what do i think about people caring for pets?
that's cool. point. end

what do i think about people having pets?
now i have more things to say
and i "sure was able to answer" because the conversation started with a few specific points
(ex : Is there a vegan alternative for a pet diet?
Aren't alot of vegans against owning pets anyways?)

what do i think about humans reproducing?
well, i'd need a few specific points to start cause if not i really don't see where you want me to go.

i have ideas about the treatment of animals that are not the norm, so they come out easily when i don't agree
now when it comes to humans reproducing, my ideas might not be that much off norms, so if you don't tell me what points interest you, i can't guess.

but since you changed your question from "what do you think about humans reproducing?" to "what do you think about people caring for children?", that's easier to answer :
that's cool. point. end
 
Jimmy the Gun said:
i'm getting off topic but...mynameisnotdeja - if you want to see the horrible abuse of animals, check out meat, dairy, gelatin, honey and egg farming...i don't know about your personal diet, but if you eat any of these products, you should seriously question your commitment to the prevention of animal cruelty. furthermore, is it right to feed your cat animal products and support these abuses? no.

but back to the topic. i will never buy an animal if i lived in a city. even though they are domesticated, locking an animal inside all day is not natural, its selfish. solution; don't have a pet in the city.
Click to expand...


I support Peta and I know all about animal cruelty. Like I said I used to work at an SPCA and we got the whole Peta newsletter every month and all that. I definately strill eat chicken and eggs and am aware of what these animals suffer. I'm not perfect and don't claim to be. I do what I can. I recently have cut beef and pork from my diet. I will continue to change my diet for moral and health reasons..but I do what I can. It's not completely black and white, IMO. I feel like if I'm not eating cows or pigs, then they are not suffering for me, and if thats all I can do right now, then it's better than nothing.

As far as keeping an animal inside..when it comes to a cat, I see nothing cruel about that whatsoever. My cat is active, he plays all the time, he runs up to me and purrs when he sees me. He's happy. How is keeping him inside cruel? I just don't understand that. BTW..he is neither FAT nor DECLAWED.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top