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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Cheshire_Kat

(Various) - Experienced - The price of substance abuse

Shaal

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Messages
293
Hi all,

I thought it could be a good idea to share this experience here, wether some of you have experienced the same symptoms and can advise me, or some people can gain knowledge from what happened. In a nutshell: isopropylphenidate abuse (+ previous MXP use), bladder damage, vasovagal syncope / epilepsy, hospital.

Last week, I have been (ab)using isopropylphenidate (approximately 60 mg on tuesday, 45 mg on wednesday, 50 mg on thursday, 20 mg on friday). This is the 2nd time I use it that often in one single week. I started using it as a study aid since the vendors I use have stopped stocking 2-fma. I also have been using MXP for the past 3 week-ends, one dose per week-end (one dose was 25 mg, second was 95 mg, third was 60 mg and it was on friday night, so the bladder pains had alread started the day before). On the first two of these occasions, the MXP was taken with various psychedelics (reasonable doses), and also MXE. I also smoke weed daily in the evening.

So, to the point: I started having bladder pain on thursday night (urethra pain as well, much less intense). Not that intense, but still pretty nasty. I attributed it to the isopropylphenidate. I had nearly no pain after that thursday (note: I took 60 mg MXP on friday night). Until sunday night. I was watching Star Wars, lying in bed, I had smoked weed not so long ago, when I started to feel the pain again. I got up, went to pee, it was hurting. I was checking if there was no blood in my urine (there was nothing). And then, suddenly, the feeling you get when you start to faint creeped over me, but so quickly I only had the reflex to lean towards the wall. The colours changed suddenly, everything went dark, and from this point I remember nothing. I was unconscious before hitting the floor (I've had sensations of fainting before, especially when getting up quickly from a sitting position, also once when I had taken kratom and smoked strong kief; but this was much more quick and brutal). Fortunately my GF was there, she heard the sound, so she called me, I didn't answer. She then opened the toilet door, and saw me on the floor, kind of convulsing. I was hitting in the air with my feet, and had trouble breathing, making strange throat noises. My eyes were closed, my body was not rigid tho. She kept on calling me, after a while (10 sec) I stopped moving, then woke up 10-15 sec after that, with the pupils very dilated, looking extremely pale, even my lips. After waking up I was feeling extremely weak, as if I could faint again anytime. I went to open the window, breathed fresh air, ate a lot of honey, then went back to bed with my legs elevated. I was really scared that I could faint and go in that state again. Also I was scared to go piss and that it would trigger the crisis again. On the bed, my legs were trembling a lot (like an adrenaline response) and I had to do a very a strong effort to contain them from trembling. I had trouble finding my pulse, and it seemed pretty fast. A few minutes later the ambulance people confirmed this (125 bpm).

Also, I don't know when it happened (maybe during the whole syncope episode, maybe only at the begenning, or only when I came to consciouness again, I'm kind of confused about the order), but I had massive hallucinations. It was like someone was playing 15 songs at the same time in my head, at maximum volume, and I was seeing extra-bright flashes of white light, with some colours and bright lines connecting the spots where the flashes where appearing. It was so intense and brutal that I now feel like if this happens again, my brain won't be able to take it. When I came back to consciousness, thanks to my GF calling me, it pretty hard, like there was a pull to keep me unconscious. Like when I woke up from that general anaesthesia for the wisdom teeth. I have no memories of anything between the moment I lost consciouness and the moment I gained it back. It's like time stopped, only in reality, approx. 1 min had passed.

Right after this episode, my GF called the emergency doctor number, they said to call the ambulance. She did, I was taken to the closest hospital. They ran an urine test, I asked for the results, they didn't give them to me (I don't know why, maybe there was nothing significant). They kept me for some time and told me to go home and see my doctor. Which I did, I saw her today. Right now I'm still having slight pain at the bladder, and also urine leaks out a little after I go pee. I've also started to feel the fainting feeling again, very slight, when urinating, but I wonder if this is not my mind playing me. I now urinate only while sitting.

For the doctors, the main hypothesis is a vagal syncope, but they also hesitate with epilepsy (because of what seems like convulsions). They don't really seem to know what happened. The consciouness loss part seems troubling to my doctor, for a simple vagal response. I run an electroencephalography test on thursday. I'll also have to run a CT scan. I have told my doctor about the substances (at the hospital I only told them I had been taking ketamine).
Personnally, I think that maybe it was a combination of factors (the pain at the bladder, being high, getting up suddenly, anxiety of having a urinary issue, and recent substance use). I've read about people having syncopes from weed consumption only. I wonder if anyone having a syncope has the hallucination symptoms, because frankly that was the worst part...

Now I won't use MXP anymore, and especially isopropylphenidate. I have read here about someone ingesting a lot of it and having blood in his urine. I also read this very interesting post by Solipsis about substance consumption - induced bladder damage.

I hope this post can be of use. If anyone has had or knows these symptoms, or just wants to help, thanks by advance for your response!
See you!

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_methoxphenidine
substancecode_phenidines
substancecode_dissociatives
substancecode_isopropylphenidate
substancecode_stimulants
_combo_
explevel_experienced
exptype_negative
exptype_healthissues
exptype_difficult
exptype_disaster
exptype_overdose
roacode_oral
roacode_nasal
 
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thats really scary, luckily your girlfriend was there to help you. 125 bpm is not completely abnormal however it is failry high for a resting state. have you taken isopropylphenidate or MXP since?
 
I suspect MXP is the bladder and urethra causing pain culprit, as ketamine is a similar NMDA antagonist/dissociative as MXP and is notorious for doing similarly nasty things to the human bladder, usually the bladders of heavy users but not always necessarily even heavy users I would dare say. I have never and will not in the future take MXP based on this trip report. Good harm reduction work, Shaal! Thanks for sharing your experience with these drugs with us.
 
thats really scary, luckily your girlfriend was there to help you. 125 bpm is not completely abnormal however it is failry high for a resting state. have you taken isopropylphenidate or MXP since?

Yes, I'm so grateful she was there... If I was alone I wonder if I would have woken up after some time. If the hallucinations were happening during the whole blackout, as they may have (I got the impression that I noticed them while coming back to consciousness, but I'm not sure, I was confused), it feels like it could have caused damage to my brain, as they felt like an extremely nasty and psychologically painful maelstrom of destructive energy in my brain. However, apparently, fainting caused by a vasovagal response while urinating is not that uncommon in men.

I suspect the bpm of 125 was caused by an adrenaline response when I came back to consciousness. I got a sudden burst of energy and was able to walk and get to the kitchen window. Like my body was telling me "don't lose consciousness again, you won't be able to take it a second time". The trembling of the body could also have been another consequence of an adrenaline response (I don't know if that trembling was the same as the trembling that my GF saw when she first opened the toilet door while I was unconscious).

I have not used MXP or isopropylphenidate since (or anything for that matter, except weed and benzodiazepines). When I smoke weed I do it with much more caution, to avoid a drop in blood pressure that could lead to fainting. I have actually thrown away the remaining of my isopropylphenidate sample.

I suspect MXP is the bladder and urethra causing pain culprit, as ketamine is a similar NMDA antagonist/dissociative as MXP and is notorious for doing similarly nasty things to the human bladder, usually the bladders of heavy users but not always necessarily even heavy users I would dare say. I have never and will not in the future take MXP based on this trip report. Good harm reduction work, Shaal! Thanks for sharing your experience with these drugs with us.

I'm not sure about the MXP being the first culprit. I have used MXP in a regular fashion before (once a week), without any of these symptoms. In this case I took it "only" for 3 weekends in a row, once per weeend. The isopropylphenidate, however, is a pretty new animal to me, and the symptoms of bladder pain started right during the heavy use of last week. Maybe it's a combination of both substances. But I suspect that the isopropylphenidate had the greatest role of all substances taken recently. If I recall correctly, I already had weird feelings around the bladder after a heavy session maybe a month ago. This would go in the sense of the guy who had blood in his urine after sharing a gram of isopropylphenidate with his friend.

Also, I don't think it is very likely that two substances sharing a NMDA antagonism (ketamine and MXP) will also share bladder damage properties. In this matter I agree with the post by Solipsis, post that I have linked to in my original post in this thread, which states that the molecules have a direct damaging action on the bladder mucosa while being in solution in the urine. I don't wanna demonize MXP too quickly. I think the main culprit here is my recklessness with the isopropylphenidate.

Well I'm glad to share my experience, it's part of my "duty" as a RC consumer after all. ;)

P.S.: I am SO GLAD I didn't take 5-MAPB on friday night, as I was supposed to do. I'm not religious but I "thank the lord" for this. In the end we didn't go out so I didn't take it, but I cannot imagine what damage the urine retention properties of 5-MAPB would have caused to my bladder, retaining urine in there while I was still eliminating isopropylphenidate and MXP...
 
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You can have blood in your urine without it visibly discoloring it. There are kits for UTIs available OTC to determine if you do. Your doctor can do much more elaborate labwork though and if he hasn't checked already it may be worth looking into.
 
Thanks Raysu!
So I received some results from a urine test, and there is no sign of infection. Also the red blood cell count doesn't reach the maximum limit, so apparently no blood in my urine (at least not at an alarming concentration).
Next is urethral sampling...
I have also run an electroencephalography test this morning, getting results tomorrow.

Also now I have less bladder pains, but more weird sensations in the urethra (heat, itching, sometimes slight pain), and I still leak urine for approx. 20-30 minutes after urinating.

Thanks for the support guys!
 
the bladder pain is almost certainly the MXP. read up on the bladder effects of K, MXE etc.
 
Hi all,

Coming back to let you know the good news. Everything looks fine now.

I wanted to wait until I had all the results before posting here, to avoid thinking too much about all this stuff. This whole thing made my hypochondria / anxiety skyrocket, so I had to avoid thinking about it. The scariest stuff (which I also didn't tell here because I didn't want to think about it) was the fact that I had no morning boners anymore, that when I tried to masturbate I couldn't get it really hard (plus it hurt inside the penis), and that it hurt when I ejaculated (pain at the valve where the urine / sperm conducts join). I was so afraid I could have definitely lost some of my reproductive functionality... But now everything seems back in order!

Electroencephalogram: all is fine. No signs of epilepsia.
CT scan: all is fine.
Echography: all is fine, no signs of significan scarring of the bladder or kidney stones. Also my prostate is fine.
Urine samplings: all is fine, except for presence of Streptococcus B (treatment considered unnecessary).
Blood sampling: everything is fine, kidneys and liver functioning well.

The near-totality of my symptoms are gone now. A day after the syncope, I'd say my urinary / reproductive functionality was 30%. Now I'd say it's very close to 100%. It took approx. two weeks after the syncope episode for the symptoms to disappear (the nature of the symptoms evolved in time). I had noticed that the symptoms were enhanced when I smoked weed. Maybe because the cannabinoids are eliminated through the bladder, I don't know (I had noticed before that consuming weed milk made my pee smell a lot like weed). The last symptoms I had, a few days ago, were some stinging sensation under the navel. I took me like a week to start pissing while standing again (mostly because of fear of having a syncope again). At times I had to lay down for a while, because standing hurt my bladder, and sitting also hurt my bladder + weird sensations around the kidneys. Also I felt like the doctors didn't take me very seriously, and thought I was maybe creating a good part of my symptoms. Also I was eating a lot, and nearly not shitting anything. I had one day where all I was shitting was some mucus, and after that my shit was yellow and looking like clay. this lasted for 5-6 days. In the beginning I was in pain and had to lie down everytime after emptying the bladder.

Now I take this as a lesson, a reminder from my body that I should not abuse substances. I haven't taken anything since then, and I'm not gonna take anything for a while. I doubt I'll be taking any stimulants (other than caffeine) again.

the bladder pain is almost certainly the MXP. read up on the bladder effects of K, MXE etc.

I remembered that after every heavy use of isopropylphenidate, I had weird sensations in the bladder. It has never done this to me after MXP use. MXP probably played a role tho, but I personnally feel like isopropylphenidate is the main culprit.
 
It seems like I can't edit my post for some reason. I wanted to add that I've also been getting slight brain zaps when I wake up at night and start falling asleep again. Also, a stinging sensation (ressembling the one under the navel) is also felt in my anus (wtf), still to this day sometimes.

I didn't use much painkillers. I didn't want to screw my liver further more (if it was already damaged, and at the time I didn't have the results from the blood sample) with acetaminophen. And the doctor advised me against ibuprofen, since it's eliminated by the bladder and could induce more irritation.

So I've used mainly phloroglucinol (spasmolytic action, used for pains of the intestine, bile ducts, bladder and uterus). Very efficient, more than acetaminophen and ibuprofen. I hope that can be of use to somebody.
 
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