Discussion Vaping 7-OH wtf is this

Quasimoto said:
I mean literally people talking about coming off a long term fentanyl habit and saying they have no withdrawals cold turkey šŸ¤·
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On Opiophile quite a few people mentioned two things. One was that each WD seemed worse than the last. But a lot of people had at least one time where they just stopped... and nothing happened. No idea WHY as it wasn't limited to a specific compound but for whtever strange reason, a lot of people chimed in that it had happened to them ONCE.

Of course almost all went back on the geat in the weeks or months following and next time they stopped, the AWS was even worse than the last AWS they went through.

So I think it DOES happen... but I think it only happens ONCE and you don't get to choose the where and when of it.

But we all agreed if we could figure out WHY it happened, we would all get very rich until someone pointed out that in that case, expect a lot of ODs - which was a fair point.
 
4DQSAR said:
On Opiophile quite a few people mentioned two things. One was that each WD seemed worse than the last. But a lot of people had at least one time where they just stopped... and nothing happened. No idea WHY as it wasn't limited to a specific compound but for whtever strange reason, a lot of people chimed in that it had happened to them ONCE.

Of course almost all went back on the geat in the weeks or months following and next time they stopped, the AWS was even worse than the last AWS they went through.

So I think it DOES happen... but I think it only happens ONCE and you don't get to choose the where and when of it.

But we all agreed if we could figure out WHY it happened, we would all get very rich until someone pointed out that in that case, expect a lot of ODs - which was a fair point.
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Well I sorta hope that's not the case because I do plan on using it again in the future. It's a great painkiller without too much intoxication at low doses. Um, there was another point in my life where i used to powdered plant daily for a few months. No WDs then either, but maybe a month isn't really that long.
 
I have always questioned that one too. Seems to defy all logic here as well.

It is often sold with that "There is a difference between addiction and dependence" line --- I believe people get away with A LOT on their first run before serious physical addiction sets in.....no W/D though seems tough to buy

What Digdital went big; I am shocked! (haha Im just playing man -- Sounds like you are well aware of the weight of what you are playing with). What is up with the 68% number (Is there a reason for that or just a decision somewhere by someone; I think I saw 91% too)

*edit* opiophile was fun for awhile than it got a bit depressing but still full of good info. --- W/D antidote that is not just a crappier opi would be the damn holy grail. Just get all new organs and blood and brain receptors -- last one be tricky. Ooh I smell a rich ppl rumor hahaha
 
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Quasimoto said:
Just the skill / quality of the chemist

I've seen everything from 48% to 99.5% purity
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I DOUBT the 99.5% figure but in either case, what matters is what the impurities are.

If it's chromium trioxide - that 0.5% is not going to be much help.
If the 52% is simply unoxidized mitragynine, it's less active but not dangerous.
 
4DQSAR said:
I DOUBT the 99.5% figure but in either case, what matters is what the impurities are.
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Yeah... I'm definitely a skeptic, but from what I've read it's probably legit. It came from my favorite vendor who I'm close with. That particular chemist consistently puts out 85-94%, then introduced the 99.5% (which sold out quicker than syrup at a pancake factory). That batch is the only one that approached white-ish end product.

There are two different colors I've seen from 7oh batches, yellow and red. The further saturated the color, the less pure it is.

I believe the difference in color is based on what catalysts they use.

I'm pretty sure the red ones use Oxone (potassium peroxymonosulfate -apparently a branded prodcut or method). I'm unsure of the chemistry, but I also think this catalyst also leads to the 11 halogenated analogs of 7oh.

But yes your concern over toxic impurities is very real. Some batches/brands are so laden with impurities I can feel it. One brand gave me and another member here liver rash which ended up permanently scarring my skin. Another brand makes my skin tingle ans genral numbing/headache and produces hyperthermia in a way that I can only describe as methanol poisoning. Both of those brands are very popular and sold in vape shops. šŸ¤”
 
Ah - Oxone. Interesting you mention that. I HAD wondered if Oxone could be used in that single-electron oxidation as I've seen it used in related compounds. But it's usually just a reagent, not a catalyst... but who knows.

No halogens in Oxone. BUT if Oxone were used to oxidize something else that then oxidizes the mitraynine and thus is reduced, it could be part of a catalytic system. If a halogen turns up, MAYBE that suggests that hypervalent iodine compound I mentioned. I don't know a lot about it because it appeared and disappeared quite quickly due to being 'energetic' (explosive) but if one only uses a catalytic amount, I guess that would make some sense.

But strange colours and odd side-effects? Those do not sound great.

That has always been one of the main issues I have with the product. I cannot figure who, if anyone, is responsible for testing the product because no standards exist for a product to comply with.
 
@4DQSAR https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-23736-2

I think this paper inspired a lot of clandestine chemists. It specifically mentions Oxone and synth routes for 11-X-7OH derivatives (sorry mods, delete if really necessary)

I think a lot of the red batches, which are aka / sold in vape shops as "red OH" or "pseudoindoxyl", are actually the 11-x analogs

The last batch I had a week ago I think was an 11-x analog. VERY long half life. Feels like 7oh, except nausea was a major issue and was long lasting vs 7oh. I actually vomited a few times. I preferred it to regular 7oh, mainly due to the duration. I only had to dose once per day in the morning (compared to every ~6 hours with regular 7oh), and the tapering/withdrawal process was smoother.

But I honestly think these alkaloids are the devil now. These are really unusual opioids, with usually bad withdrawals.
 
It is fascinating because it's such an unusual scaffold. I'm reminded of cebranopadol which as you can see, has that substituted indole system and as BDPC has shown it's sometimes possible to swap where one would expect the tertiary amine and the oxygen-containing function.

I know Dan was SO happy when I sent him the patent covering cebranopadol because it showed that his work was being taken forward by others.

It could well be that while NOP ligands don't produce the euphoria of MOP ligands, they do produce tolerance and dependence hence the awful AWS. It's still supposed to be in trials but I'm going to bet it's never introduced into medicine. Because while it may not be as euphoric, if it's going to produce an AWFUL withdrawal. from a medical perspective, it isn't very attractive.

I suppose it wouldn't be as popular as a street drug - but heck, who is going to synthesize THAT?
 
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