Benzos Valium - HELP

[ghostworld1990]

Hello,

I am relatively new to this, so I'm sorry if I'm posting in the wrong thread or something! My friend has been taking Valium for around 18 months, some weeks 10mg, some weeks 100mg.

For the first six months, very sporadic and relatively infrequent usage for anxiety, could go several weeks without it and so on. Then a year ago he developed PTSD and began to use it for his overwhelming symptoms.

He wants to know if there's going to be any long-term health problems from this varying dosage for this period of time, and if stopping now will cause any bad withdrawal effects - and what would be the best way of coming off the Valium to avoid any such effects?

To demonstrate his recent usage it has been 485mg in 36 days, is this enough to cause problems? No 'daily' dosage, some days 10mg, some days 30mg, some days none. None of his medical practitioners (GP, therapist) are aware of his Valium usage and he does not want to tell them.

Where can he go from here? He is very frightened he is got himself into a bad situation - has he? Please help.

Thank you.

 

[Venrak]

If on the days without any diazepam there are no withdrawal symptoms, especially on consecutive days of no dosing, then your friend should be in the clear.

As to health problems associated with this dosing pattern, there is really nothing to be concerned about.

 

[ghostworld1990]

Thank you. So do you think he's safe to quit? Or should he taper off? In the past year he's never gone more than seven days without having something, but in 2015 the use has been much higher, averaging around 100mg a week max. Is he safe? He's very worried about these horror stories about seizures

 

[Mad Dash]

You need to quit. Because this is the second thread you have posted about the exact same thing. You are not cut out for this kind of life. Which trust me is for the best. You sound like you are already for sure addicted and you are placing obstacles in your own way so you can play off that you don't have an addiction. AKA: "well if I don't do this then I am not an addict." This is called justifying. Just stop now to save yourself a lot of pain in the future.

 

[ghostworld1990]

Yes, I was advised to post my thread in this section as oppose to 'mental health' as I may get more responses... ?

My friend, is addicted yes, there was never any denying that... I am asking for help on how to STOP safety? Not justifying continuing taking it, but I've read tapering is the safest option. My friend has severe PTSD, anything to make this worse would be terrible for him. I just want to know the safest route for this type of dose / this length of time!

 

[Mad Dash]

Yes, I was advised to post my thread in this section as oppose to 'mental health' as I may get more responses... ?

My friend, is addicted yes, there was never any denying that... I am asking for help on how to STOP safety? Not justifying continuing taking it, but I've read tapering is the safest option. My friend has severe PTSD, anything to make this worse would be terrible for him. I just want to know the safest route for this type of dose / this length of time!

I also have severe PTSD I actually just got out of the military I take 10 mg valium a day at night. I never abuse it. So that is the difference. He needs to stop abusing his medication because his intent is not to get better, it is to get high.

Just get him stable on 10 mg less every week until he is on 10 mg a day. Then if he is stable that way he can stay on it, if he needs to get off, keep going down by 5 mg, then 2.5.

 

[sigmond]

Yes, I was advised to post my thread in this section as oppose to 'mental health' as I may get more responses... ?

I mentioned it, thinking OD was a more suitable place for this discussion.

(It took over a month to get more than 1 reply in MH)

 

[ghostworld1990]

He needs to stop abusing his medication because his intent is not to get better, it is to get high.

I said in my original post 'he developed PTSD and began to use it for his overwhelming symptoms' - I never mentioned anything about getting 'high' and by saying so you are being incredibly presumptuous. He wants to get well and not be on medication. I appreciate your advise, but I would also appreciate a level of understanding that not everyone who self-medicates is doing it for a 'high', he suffers deeply with anxiety.

 

[ghostworld1990]

I mentioned it, thinking OD was a more suitable place for this discussion.

Thank you.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

sorry to hear that you or your friend is struggling with mental health problems and now has addiction to worry about. good news is it sounds like it's being recognized before it got out of control. what's the longest you've gone without taking valium in the last few weeks?

you can be physically dependent on benzos and make it 24 hours without and not show significant withdrawal symptoms. especially with valium.

you're talking about taking 10 - 30mgs multiple times a week? in my opinion and experience, that's well on the road to disaster. it's difficult to guess if you are dependent at "485mg in 36 days," because it's really more about how much you are using daily. or maybe every other day. even then, it varies from person to person. 100mgs a week, spread out over the week, can cause dependence.

from what you've said, there's a good chance that you are not significantly physically dependent and can quit now without much more than rebound anxiety. if that's the case, take that out while it's available. in my experience, long-term, frequent benzodiazepine use makes anxiety much worse. even when taken as directed. trying to quit benzos once you physically dependent is a nightmare. very few people are able to take them with any frequency and not slowly -- even if it takes years and years -- increase that frequency until they're hooked.

you like daniel clowes? or is your user name in reference to a different ghost world?

 

[ghostworld1990]

Thank you, he takes about 10mg to 30mg, several times a week yes. The longest he has gone without it is about five days, no significant symptoms noticed. But in the past few weeks it's been mostly every other day, I think he had a three day break at one point. Depression and anxiety at noticeable symptoms, but they are prominent anyway... so it'd difficult to know if they are exasperated when not taking the drugs. He believes valium has worsened his depression and suicidal idealisation sadly, I'm very worried about him, more than anything he wants to no longer be chained to this drug.

Shall he just quit? Or try and taper? Or just take when 'necessary' - main worry if there is any possible chance of seizures at this kind of dosage...

Yes, I love Daniel Clowes

 

[Mad Dash]

I just re-read your post and I thought you said 100 mg in a day. The only way to get to that dosage is by abusing it. So my bad. It didn't see the 100mg a week. People here normally post how much you take daily as that is the real indicator of addiction. How did he get diagnosed with PTSD what was his GAF score? Is he self medicating or is this a RX? Was the PTSD a self-diagnosis? Or was he/you tested for it? And please specify if it is combat related or non-combat related PTSD.

 

[ghostworld1990]

I just re-read your post and I thought you said 100 mg in a day. The only way to get to that dosage is by abusing it. So my bad. It didn't see the 100mg a week. People here normally post how much you take daily as that is the real indicator of addiction. How did he get diagnosed with PTSD what was his GAF score? Is he self medicating or is this a RX? Was the PTSD a self-diagnosis? Or was he/you tested for it? And please specify if it is combat related or non-combat related PTSD.

His PTSD is non-combat related, it was diagnosed by a professional. He is self-medicating. It was caused by something I am not going to post online, but it goes alongside a lifetime of Generalised Anxiety Disorder, now worsened by the PTSD.

Weekly, we've worked out, he takes about 90mg - 100mg PER WEEK in the past six weeks or so. But not always daily, sometimes he takes a day, or a two day break.

Where do we go from here? He has my been my friend since childhood and I am very concerned. Does this require a taper or quitting? If taper, how much should he drop to a day, etc? Responses would be much appreciated.

And if he is to taper, should he take it every day, even though his body isn't necessarily USED to taking it every day, if that makes sense, I don't know if that'd just make his body get adjusted to a daily dose...

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

Shall he just quit? Or try and taper? Or just take when 'necessary' - main worry if there is any possible chance of seizures at this kind of dosage..

i doubt seizures are much of a risk at these doses and frequency. it's more about quitting successfully and minimizing the amount of discomfort involved. benzos are very psychologically addicting, so there is something to be said about just being done -- if possible. [edit: removed terrible plan]. and if he does go with the taper route, never step backward. as in, if you make it a few weeks into 5mgs, do not think it's ok to try 10mg one day. that's pain without progress.

quitting benzos is difficult but rewarding. while getting off is no cakewalk, he'll find that his head clears up after a few months. maybe even sooner. he's not that deep and should be expecting success. best of luck to him. let us know how it goes!

for help along the way and after, it looks like you have arleady found bluelight's reocvery forums. TDS tends to get the most responses, but don't get caught up in the negativity. and if you're into film and lit, check out arts & entertainment as well.

i need to re-read some clowes. i went through a graphic novel phase, and he was one of my favorites. killer last frames. love the end of David Boring, and the last frame of Ghost World might have gotten some tears outta me.

 

[Mad Dash]

His PTSD is non-combat related, it was diagnosed by a professional. He is self-medicating. It was caused by something I am not going to post online, but it goes alongside a lifetime of Generalised Anxiety Disorder, now worsened by the PTSD.

Weekly, we've worked out, he takes about 90mg - 100mg PER WEEK in the past six weeks or so. But not always daily, sometimes he takes a day, or a two day break.

Where do we go from here? He has my been my friend since childhood and I am very concerned. Does this require a taper or quitting? If taper, how much should he drop to a day, etc? Responses would be much appreciated.

And if he is to taper, should he take it every day, even though his body isn't necessarily USED to taking it every day, if that makes sense, I don't know if that'd just make his body get adjusted to a daily dose...

How much does he take in a day? Between 10 - 30 mg? Even if he takes a day or two break he probably will not feel any WD because the half-life of diazepam is 60-100 hours. Honestly because he is self-medicating the best advice anyone can give you is YES he does need to come off it. The best way to do that is this:

1) Get him on a consistent dosing schedule. Lets say 10 mg a day.
2) Once he is stable for a week or two, drop that dose to 5 mg a day.
3) Continue to lower his dosage until you can not break the pill into smaller pieces.
4) Stop dosing all together.
5) Expect VERY MILD WD symptoms.

Now if he really does have PTSD he might need some sort of benzo to keep any aggressive tendencies at bay. BUT these need to be RXd and monitored by a psychiatrist. What is he currently RXd from the psychiatrist that diagnosed him with PTSD? That might help narrow down the frame of mind the provider is in. I might be able to help.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

i just read over my advice in contrast to Mad Dash's, and mine got carried away. he can't be doing a taper at every other day. consider 5mgs every other day for a week or two, and then 2.5mgs every other day for a week or two. that's not really a taper to avoid withdrawal, just some dosing to ease him off psychologically. if he even needs that. if he is physically dependent, he'd have to go everyday like the poster above suggests. but i'd avoid that if possible. and it's likely possible to avoid.

i'm just talking about quitting benzos. i don't know anything about PTSD. sounds like Mad Dash knows quite a bit.

if he drinks alcohol, he shouldn't while quitting benzos. if he drinks alcohol a lot, problems with stopping need to be taken into account. drinking while quitting benzos makes it much worse.

 

[Benzo Freak]

I'm in a total state have been abusing benzos for around a year every day. Xanax, clonazepam, lorazepam, diazepam! Then my source got busted so I found a new one and it's only diazepam. My tolerance is crazy and I take roughly 300mg daily and feel fine. I tried weaning off but the withdrawals were two much I have two young sons who need there dad. I just don't no what to do someone plz help. Oh I'm also on anti-depressant mirtazapine at 30mg before bed for depression. Any info or advice will be appreciated thankyou

Benzo Freak

 

[EnlightenedOne1]

I also have severe PTSD I actually just got out of the military I take 10 mg valium a day at night. I never abuse it. So that is the difference. He needs to stop abusing his medication because his intent is not to get better, it is to get high.

Just get him stable on 10 mg less every week until he is on 10 mg a day. Then if he is stable that way he can stay on it, if he needs to get off, keep going down by 5 mg, then 2.5.

This is admirable advice. I think a lot of people get into the routine of haphazardly dosing their benzo protocols and then have no clue how to abort their situation because of the instability.

 

[Fig]

Sorry your friend is dealing with this. Might I recommend you check out the Ashton Manual? This is the medical gold standard for understaning benzodiazepines and how to safely, medically withdraw from them. I encourage you to read the entire manual, it's pretty short. http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm




I have included an image here of a taper for a 40mg per day regimen to give you some idea of what it looks like.

Best of luck. Withdrawing benzos sucks, I have been there myself. Don't forget to tell your friend to continue seeking counseling from mental health professionals. That's especially important going into stopping valium because the absence of that drug can trigger a lot of anxiety and the desire to continue using/go back to using the medication.

 

[Fig]

I'm in a total state have been abusing benzos for around a year every day. Xanax, clonazepam, lorazepam, diazepam! Then my source got busted so I found a new one and it's only diazepam. My tolerance is crazy and I take roughly 300mg daily and feel fine. I tried weaning off but the withdrawals were two much I have two young sons who need there dad. I just don't no what to do someone plz help. Oh I'm also on anti-depressant mirtazapine at 30mg before bed for depression. Any info or advice will be appreciated thankyou

Benzo Freak

First of all, waht a blessing that you only have access now to diazepam! You are very lucky to go from four to one, esp. diaz because that's the one to use to taper from all those others. Consider it a blessing to you and your two boys. I have two boys and getting clean is the best thing I have ever done. You can do it, but you need to be deliberate about it.

Does anyone know, your wife? Or have you been hidng it? Not that anyone could actually hide that kind of usage because anyone around you would know you were altered, but I ask because if she doesn't know you need to admit it so she can be a part of your recovery. If she knows the the best thing for you to do is find a rehab in your area and get yourself checked in for detox and the beginning of your path to recovery and sobriety. That's a big step and it can be hard to accept but you will be so glad in a couple weeks, probably less.

If, for whatever reason, rehab can't happen, please see the taper plan and link to the Ashton Manal I just posted for the OP. There you can find detailed tapers for bringing your usage down to the levels that will allow you to stop completely. It must be said, this is wicked hard to do on your own without support. The potential for you simply giving up is pretty strong because benzos can be so difficult to stop, particularly at your level of usage. I highly recommend you do what needs to be done for yourself and for your family and seek professional detox and recovery at an inpatient rehab facility.

Best of luck. I have been there and I undersand.