HI all, I am new to the forum and am looking for some answers to a jackpot I have gotten myself into. Make a long story short, I have been an Opiate addict for 6-7 years. 37 years old now. My tolerance has grown such that in recent months i have taken up to 900 to over 1000 mg of oxi a day, whether it be 30's or 80's. This amount is not every day, but on average roughly 450mg a day. I don't even get high anymore. Any way, I quit saturday with 15 subs in my pocket.This is not he first time I have quit, but it is the highest dose I have quit from. I noticed that the subs seem to help a little but certainly like they used too! My history is relapse after relapse, that's just the truth. So the past two days, i took 2-3 subs per day and still felt like I had cement in my blood. Today, I took a piece of a sub, felt better, but stomach still all fucked up, so ofcourse I took some a few 30's which did nothing because I am on the sub, but it did help my stomach. How insane am I, quite insane! Has anyone else dome something similar to this? Am I the only one. I am hoping tomorrow will be better, and the sub will kick in more. I definetly don't want to take the sub long term, as I have gotten hooked on those in the past too. I think you can take them for 6-7 days without having to go through WD correct? In a convoluted way, I am asking if anyone else has experience with this, and also how long can you be on sub realistically without going through WD from that. My goal is to get through WD and take it one day at a time after that. I just want to watch my 1 year old son grow up, Love my wife, and live my life. I am tired of dying a slow death.
Opioids Using suboxone to detox off a 900mg oxycodone habit
- Thread starter doc111311
- Start date
i are spectre
Bluelighter
maybe instead use smaller doses of suboxone (like 1 or 2mg a day) and ween off the oxys at the same time, instead of blasting your receptors with some new weird compound your body isnt quite adjusted to.
if its one thing ive learned from years of drug (ab)use, it's slow and steady changes make for a (more) pleasant life.
450mg of oxycodone a day, shit man, you cant just stop that you know.
if its one thing ive learned from years of drug (ab)use, it's slow and steady changes make for a (more) pleasant life.
450mg of oxycodone a day, shit man, you cant just stop that you know.
Mr.Scagnattie
Bluelighter
I would have definitely tapered way down on the oxy before making the jump to suboxone. The more of whatever opiate you are doing, the harder it is to make the transition. You would have had a much easier time weening down as far as you could go. If that wasn't an option though or still isn't one.. than I would do a 1-2 month taper plan for you. You need to stabilize on a dose of suboxone that gets rid of the majority of your withdrawals and then slowly start to taper off of it. Try and get down to below 2mg's of suboxone, preferable below 1mg for the easiest time.
I started this thread a while ago to try to figure out the best way to use suboxone to detox.
That's quite the habit you have there though, so it may require a longer taper. It won't matter much if you end up withdrawing from suboxone instead of oxycodone, so I wouldn't be concerned about that. With a habit like yours you are going to have to pay in the end, but hopefully you can find the best way to minimize the price.
I edited the thread title so that people know what the thread is about before clicking on it.
That's quite the habit you have there though, so it may require a longer taper. It won't matter much if you end up withdrawing from suboxone instead of oxycodone, so I wouldn't be concerned about that. With a habit like yours you are going to have to pay in the end, but hopefully you can find the best way to minimize the price.
I edited the thread title so that people know what the thread is about before clicking on it.
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If you taper down you oxy to a lower dose, sub would work really well. I think sub is a really great tool. Bupre takes away my cravings and withdrawal, and it gives me energy in the morning and it wakes me up. However, many people like to trade addictions when they get on bupre. For example bob gets on suboxone, but still wants to get high, but he can't because bupre will block other opiates! Instead of going down on opiates, bob buys some crack and meth and gets super high.
I'm rambling, but you might want to get on methadone, taper down and get on suboxone. Suboxone is sure easy to taper because below four mg more norbupre is can bind to opiates receptors leading to a stronger effect.
The goal is to get down to 1mg suboxone a day. I started at 16, and for myself down to 1mg and I ha e to say I feel better on 1mg than I do on 6mg or 4mg. Idk I better mood lift and energy with antidepressant effects
I'm rambling, but you might want to get on methadone, taper down and get on suboxone. Suboxone is sure easy to taper because below four mg more norbupre is can bind to opiates receptors leading to a stronger effect.
The goal is to get down to 1mg suboxone a day. I started at 16, and for myself down to 1mg and I ha e to say I feel better on 1mg than I do on 6mg or 4mg. Idk I better mood lift and energy with antidepressant effects
SaosinEngaged
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 449
IMO, 4mg Buprenorphine daily + a slow and steady Oxy taper. I've done something similar in the past for an average of 350mg and it worked quite well. It's hard to explain, but basically what I did was dose my subs, and then administer Oxy until the WD fully subsided. I would then, over the next couple weeks reduce both the amount of subs and amount of oxy until I was down to about .5mg of Bupe and 60mg of Oxy. Then cut out the Oxy, stay a week at .5mg (briefly increase to 1mg if you need to, but I didn't), then taper down off the bupe.
I'm sure some of you guys may think this is an inefficient way to do it, but from high amounts of Oxy down to nothing I experienced no major WD's at any point. The final jump off was like a slightly more severe PAWS, but PEANUTS compared to what I'd feel just jumping straight off 350mg.
I wish I stayed clean. Relapsed two months later.
As a note, I decreased the amount of Bupe quicker than the amount of Oxy. I found the relatively low but sustained dosing of bupe made the Oxy tapering process a CINCH. Within a week of starting this routine, I was down from 350mg of Oxy to about 120mg, and only using about 2mg of Bupe every day or every other day. This is an unorthodox way to do it, but I found myself uncomfortable only using the Bupe and suffering from severe insomnia, even if I physically felt okay on just Bupe alone. So low and behold, my own little whacky taper method that goes against just about every accepted method of using Bupe.
I certainly can't say it will work as well for you as it did for me (lots and lots and lots of variables), but I was surprised by how well this worked. Of course if you're someone who's doing about 100-250mg of Oxy or so, you're better off just switching to Bupe alone as is the normal way.
I'm sure some of you guys may think this is an inefficient way to do it, but from high amounts of Oxy down to nothing I experienced no major WD's at any point. The final jump off was like a slightly more severe PAWS, but PEANUTS compared to what I'd feel just jumping straight off 350mg.
I wish I stayed clean. Relapsed two months later.
As a note, I decreased the amount of Bupe quicker than the amount of Oxy. I found the relatively low but sustained dosing of bupe made the Oxy tapering process a CINCH. Within a week of starting this routine, I was down from 350mg of Oxy to about 120mg, and only using about 2mg of Bupe every day or every other day. This is an unorthodox way to do it, but I found myself uncomfortable only using the Bupe and suffering from severe insomnia, even if I physically felt okay on just Bupe alone. So low and behold, my own little whacky taper method that goes against just about every accepted method of using Bupe.
I certainly can't say it will work as well for you as it did for me (lots and lots and lots of variables), but I was surprised by how well this worked. Of course if you're someone who's doing about 100-250mg of Oxy or so, you're better off just switching to Bupe alone as is the normal way.
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BiggDirty01
Bluelighter
I am loathe to bring up methadone, but I think you've gotten yourself in a pickle coming off that high a dose of oxy. While it is true that suboxone short term is not too difficult to get off of (I was on it for 9 days in 2011 after being prescribed Dilaudid, Fentanyl, MsContin and Methadone concurrently every day and after the 9 days on suboxone I was pretty much symptom free after the suboxone).
Methadone might be a better short term transition if your goal is to get on to suboxone and have it work better. I don't say that lightly because methadone has its own issues and can be a nightmare, but in short term might be the only comfortable way to get to Bupe treatment. You should definitely consider seeing an Addiction Specialist as they are specially trained to accommodate habits of every size.
Good luck
Methadone might be a better short term transition if your goal is to get on to suboxone and have it work better. I don't say that lightly because methadone has its own issues and can be a nightmare, but in short term might be the only comfortable way to get to Bupe treatment. You should definitely consider seeing an Addiction Specialist as they are specially trained to accommodate habits of every size.
Good luck
SaosinEngaged
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
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- 449
The only time I had to be careful was the first administration of the Bupe. I've never ever had a problem after that, in a wide variety of situations where I've dosed Oxy after Subs, then redosed the subs. Unless I wait 3-4 days when the levels of Bupe in my system are drastically lower, then I'd need to wait a solid 18-24 hours. But with steady levels of it, no matter how I dosed both it never precipitated.
Again, let me add the disclaimer that this COULD just apply to me. As in, my metabolism, my body, whatever the case may be. As always, what works for one does NOT always translate to someone else, but I figured I'd share something unorthodox I've had pretty good success with, success being defined as minimal discomfort.
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Fire&Water
Pumpkin King
You dont have to worry about PW's when using a couple mg's of Bupe' along side a strong full agonist when used for legitimate pain. I use subutex w/ an above moderate dose of oxycodone for chronic pain & I believe it helps in a few different ways. It does not effect the analgesic properties whatsoever.
I mentioned before I think the .25 doses of Buprenex would be even more beneficial...
I have no proof but I wouldnt be surprised if there is a buprenorphine /full on opioid med' in the works as we "type" I know the mixture makes one of the best analgesic's from experience, and if it means a little less euphoria, well... too F'ing bad for allot of didacts.
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You need to wait, in my opinion, 48 hours after taking suboxone AT LEAST in order to get almost all the effect of an opiate. Also, if you just got stabilized on 3 subs a day, and then tapered down slowly, you'd be just fine.
Edit: Also doing a dual taper is a bad idea, and for almost everyone I've ever known cannot do opiates after suboxone without not feeling ANYTHING and getting sick as hell.
You can either taper down oxy, get on subs, or just get on subs now and brace through the shitty feeling. This will only work if you know you are done with opiates. Otherwise forget it.
Edit: Also doing a dual taper is a bad idea, and for almost everyone I've ever known cannot do opiates after suboxone without not feeling ANYTHING and getting sick as hell.
You can either taper down oxy, get on subs, or just get on subs now and brace through the shitty feeling. This will only work if you know you are done with opiates. Otherwise forget it.
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If you have bupre in your system already, like a stabilized amount in your blood stream for maintenance, taking a full agonist like oxy
AFTER bupre will not cause withdrawal.
But I agree with tommy that a dual taper doesn't work especially with bupre. Bupre is not supposed to be used with other opiates for a taper. Bupre was not made for that, it is just not plausible.
However a oxy a methadone dial taper wouldn't sound badx but you would probably just end up getting just as high and never taper and just keep using opiates on methadone.
Suboxone doctors and methadone clinics want you to be in withdrawal before they give you anything. If you were still taking oxyx you would get mad precip withdrawal . And they drug test you and if you fail for oxyx they will think you don't take the program seriously and you still want to get high and kick you out of the clinic or the doctor restricts you from coming back for sub treatment
AFTER bupre will not cause withdrawal.
But I agree with tommy that a dual taper doesn't work especially with bupre. Bupre is not supposed to be used with other opiates for a taper. Bupre was not made for that, it is just not plausible.
However a oxy a methadone dial taper wouldn't sound badx but you would probably just end up getting just as high and never taper and just keep using opiates on methadone.
Suboxone doctors and methadone clinics want you to be in withdrawal before they give you anything. If you were still taking oxyx you would get mad precip withdrawal . And they drug test you and if you fail for oxyx they will think you don't take the program seriously and you still want to get high and kick you out of the clinic or the doctor restricts you from coming back for sub treatment
Fire&Water
Pumpkin King
Excuse me but you're both wrong, Buprenorphine can be used as an analgesic alongside opiat/oids "to get the most out of an opioid is suggestive" and most Doctors dont know anything about bupe' other than the fact they make Bookoo bucks off of it and it "may" substitute abusing drugs. You dont need to wait an hour for opioid analgesia unless you are on stupid (most Dr. prescribed amounts of it)
^ I think that 4mgs (which is the dose of bupe the OP mentioned starting the taper at) is above the dose to take if the oxy is going to work though. Taking 1mg or less, sure, it should work, but 4mg doesn't seem plausible to me. The only opioid that I have heard suboxone being prescribed in conjunction with is tramadol.
Fire&Water
Pumpkin King
That is why 99% of Doctors prescribe it in such ridiculous amounts...anything more than 1-2 mg's w/ full opioids is gonna cause ongoing side effects Thats why 1-2 (.25-.50mg's) IM's of buprenex is ideal with strong agonists...It enhances the painkilling effects. High doses are only good for didacts quitting (at the beginning) & nothing more. And maybe to stay on @ micro doses for mood and quality of life (non-addicts)
jiveturkey11
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2011
- Messages
- 18
it sounds like everyone here knows their stuff when it comes to bupe...i have been searching for the best detox method w/subs, and i have seen so many diff versions here, that i am more confused now than before i started reading 
here's the scoop:
daily use - 150-250mg of oxycodone
subs- have 4X8mg pills
so - i wait approx 24hrs (basically, till i feel like garbage), then this is what i had planned on doing:
day 1 - 2mg
day 2 - 2mg, wait 12hrs - 1.5mg
day 3 - 1.5mg, wait 12hrs - 1mg
day 4 - 1mg, wait 12 hrs - 0.5mg
day 5 - 0.5mg
i know this doesnt use my entire stash of subs, but i figure the less i can use the better???
does this sound/look ok? what would you recommend? 5 days is not enough to get stuck on the subs, but long enough to weather the oxy w/d's, right? any input/advice/feedback would be greatly appreciated...i am finally determined to finally get my act together for the long term
oh, and i can't taper....just can't do it
if they're there, i just gobble em up..like a jiveturkey...def time to get off the crazy train!
i have one more mod dose for tomorrow morning (120mg), and then its goodbye, so long, farewell to my dearest friend for the last 7 years longest relationship of my life!
here's the scoop:
daily use - 150-250mg of oxycodone
subs- have 4X8mg pills
so - i wait approx 24hrs (basically, till i feel like garbage), then this is what i had planned on doing:
day 1 - 2mg
day 2 - 2mg, wait 12hrs - 1.5mg
day 3 - 1.5mg, wait 12hrs - 1mg
day 4 - 1mg, wait 12 hrs - 0.5mg
day 5 - 0.5mg
i know this doesnt use my entire stash of subs, but i figure the less i can use the better???
does this sound/look ok? what would you recommend? 5 days is not enough to get stuck on the subs, but long enough to weather the oxy w/d's, right? any input/advice/feedback would be greatly appreciated...i am finally determined to finally get my act together for the long term
oh, and i can't taper....just can't do it
if they're there, i just gobble em up..like a jiveturkey...def time to get off the crazy train!i have one more mod dose for tomorrow morning (120mg), and then its goodbye, so long, farewell to my dearest friend for the last 7 years
longest relationship of my life! You'll be fine if you got subs. I was averaging 300mg oral oxy a day plus about a quarter gram IV of very pure tar heroin(equal to maybe 1000mg oral oxy) I went straight from that to 2mg sub 3x per day and went through a very tolerable light physical withdrawal. Now the mental aspect is a whole 'nother story, since Suboxone can NOT get a hardcore opiate addict high, it will leave you feeling very disappointed and possibly full of cravings. IME IMHO it is a miracle drug because of 1) long duration, less often dosing, breaks down compulsivity 2) can't get ya high 3) much, much easier to wean/detox compAred to any other strong opiate, especially methadone.
If I were you I'd jump right on sub as soon as you're sick enough to not go through precipitated withdrawals. For me it is nigh impossible to wean a full-agonist opiate, and if I remember correctly buprenorphine only hits 1 maybe 2 of the different opiate receptors, while some tar heroin or methadone has been said to hit as many as 5, with oxy hitting 3.
If I were you I'd jump right on sub as soon as you're sick enough to not go through precipitated withdrawals. For me it is nigh impossible to wean a full-agonist opiate, and if I remember correctly buprenorphine only hits 1 maybe 2 of the different opiate receptors, while some tar heroin or methadone has been said to hit as many as 5, with oxy hitting 3.
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jiveturkey11
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2011
- Messages
- 18
thanks mang! i have no intent/desire to use the subs to even try to catch a buzz, so w/o that expectation, i'm hoping it wont disappoint. my biggest fear is the PAWS, not so much the acute withdrawal. i'm hoping the subs will help mitigate those somewhat. and i will have some left over, so could i take every so often (say a tiny amount like >1mg every 7-10 days or so) to help with PAWS?