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Using smart drugs/nootropics while brain developing

tadfish

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
1,537
Whats everyone's view on taking drugs like piracetam, oxiracetam, hydergine, Ginkgo, choline, and other nootropics and anti aging drugs to improve mental function while brain is still growing.
Could i make your brain smarter long term if you start early?
"Racetam drug make your brain communicate more between both hemispheres of the brain. Other drugs increase blood flow and make brain chemicals last longer.
They do work. I used them for over 2 years and noticed massive improvement in many aspects of mental function. From memory to vocabulary to nearly photo graphic memory.
 
Im just 19..and I just started using Ginkgo Biloaba...1 a day....how long before you think I will notice any difference? Im not sure if its the ginkgo..but I have started to feel more focused already.
As for your post - I have no scientific response but I do think there is a strong possibility it could enable the brain to develope fuller and better functioning.
 
clean cut, what the fuk r u doing on a site like this if the msot bad ass shit u do is pop gingko biloba daily.
 
I wonder what it would do to a child's brain having them before age of ten
 
Racetams are horribly overrated imho. Frankly I view them as weak stimulants.

Will it make your brain smarter long term if you start early? No, because there is no indication that this effect is cumulative, or even lasts past the time the compounds are swirling around your bloodstream.

Reading a few books is a better use of your money.
 
Centrophenoxine
DMAE
Aniracetam but its too up and down and hard to dose right without opposite adverse effects like mental clouding
Deprenyl HCL but i recon the citrate version better makes you live 150% longer
stops brain degrading also makes amphets super strong, breaks down into methamphet and amphet
its basically meth with a some group added to it

Modiodal®, this is an analogue of adrafinil and a unique non-sleep-affecting stimulant, specially designed to treat narcolepsy, hypersomnia and cataplexy. Modafinil and adrafinil are the only two drugs in a unique class called Eugeroics, which literally means good arousal.

These remarkable drugs appear to only stimulate alpha-1 brain receptors that are responsible for the uptake of nor-adrenaline. As a result, they increase alertness and concentration, reducing the desire the nap (sleep), and yet at the same time display no addictive or "coming-down" side-effects. They are a new generation of stimulants for a modern world

Centrophenoxine increases the brain's use of glucose and improves brain energy levels. But Centrophenoxine also removes a potassium build up in the brain, heart, lung and skin cells called lipofuscin. This is an essential requirement as lipofuscin inhibits function and has been linked with the Membrane Theory of Aging.

It is vital for the efficient communication of a cell to transfer potassium and sodium across its membranes, lipofuscin may inhibit this function.

Centrophenoxine may help slow down and repair some of this membrane loss of function and thus becomes an important anti-aging medicine.

Part of Centrophenoxine breaks down into DMAE, but Centrophenoxine is accepted as a far superior product to DMAE. Centrophenoxine is also known to increase the life span of animals.

Bromocriptine (got but haven't used yet) This semi-synthetic derivative of the ergo group is a dopamine receptor agonist and a Prolactin inhibitor.

Its first major anti-aging use is the enhancement of Dopamine, (a key brain neurotransmitter that undergoes an age-related decline). Past the age of 40 it is estimated that “on-average” the healthy person undergoes a Dopamine decline of approximately 13% per decade, (Dean, Fowkes & Morgenthaler). Accordingly, some neurologists have stated that; “if we all live long enough we shall all become senile.” This is due to the fact that abnormally low levels of Dopamine (after 70% to 80% loss) are diagnosed as Parkinson’s disease, hence protection and enhancement of the Dopamine producing neurons is a key strategy for anti-aging medicine. Not surprisingly then, Bromocriptine is sometimes used in conjunction with other drugs, (such as Deprenyl and Sinemet) in the management of Parkinson’s disease, but anti-aging medicine also considers its preventative properties.

note Parkinson’s disease treating drugs great for brain

Pyritinol is a vitamin-B6 derivative Nootropic that may be the oldest smart drug in the world. Since its development in 1961 (by Merck Laboratories- branded Encefabol®), Pyritinol has been found to have a wide ranging number of affects and benefits including: improving brain glucose uptake, acting with potent antioxidant abilities and enhancing the immune system (by improving neutrophil activity, the white blood cells that kill germs




only problems that all Nootropics are synergistic with each other and with other brain nutrition products, (for example: choline, DMAE, Hydergine, Centrophenoxine etc.). When combining these products the individual doses may have to be reduced in order to avoid possible side effects of nausea and headaches

Picamilon, this is a Russian developed nootropic. It is in essence Niacin (vitamin B3) bonded to GABA. Studies have shown that it rapidly crosses the blood-brain barrier, however its effects are much greater and broader than just taking a GABA and Niacin supplement.

Picamilone increases the rate of intracranial and cortex blood circulation and has been cited as a better vasodilator than either Hydergine, Vinpocetine or Xanthinol Nicotinate.

The combination acts as a mild stimulant, yet depresses aggression. This could be the clear actions of Niacin and GABA (after all diazepam's such as Valium® increase or enhance the activity of GABA). But, Picamilone has a tranquilizing effect, without a sedative effect but actually with an element of stimulatory action.

Picamilone is also known to have a mild reversible MAO-A inhibition and thus indicates an anti-depressant quality too.
(i didn't and don't mix this with deprenyl)

oxiracetam, the first analogue of piracetam. It is the closet derivative of piracetam and is used in the industry as the nootropic standard (in other words, when new Nootropics are designed they are compared to oxiracetam).

Like all the analogues, Oxiracetam is more potent mg dose / Kg bodyweight when compared to Piracetam.

doses are 1 tablet (800mg each) twice daily.
(my fav 'racetam drug)

Desmopressin is the synthetic version of vasopressin, a peptide hormone found naturally in the brain and is believed to be partly responsible for the formation of memories.

Vasopressin was known as Diapid® in the USA, but vasopressin was of bovine and porcine origin and those versions have now been withdrawn from the world market. However, it is true to note that desmopressin is more potent than vasopressin, should therefore be used less, and that desmopressin affects other brain receptor sites to a greater degree than the earlier vasopressin.

Desmopressins' effects rapidly improve short-term memory and enhance memory imprinting. Desmopressin is usually "approved" for the treatment of diabetes insipidus, (a condition of frequent urination and extreme thirst). This is because desmopressin is also involved in this body function. However in some countries, its uses have been for amnesia, and for patients suffering from mental difficulties caused by the abuse of narcotics.

As desmopressin is partly responsible for the "deposit" of memories in the hippocampus, (the region of the brain where memories are stored), it presents a unique aspect. When desmopressin is taken before an event, it enables the event to be recalled with more detail later. Whereas "normal" memory-drugs improve the capability to remember past events easier and faster, desmopressin helps us to remember future events better! This type of effect is referred to as memory imprinting.

(this drug great for study and remembering stuff some get photo graphic memory from it) its used for kids wetting beds as well i think how strange so can't be to bad for young minds

Vinpocetine is a vasodilator (it improves brain blood flow with a no-steal effect) and has been found to improve hearing (tinnitus), eyesight and even alleviate the problems of menopause.

Clinical research indicates that vinpocetine has a positive effect upon damaged areas of the brain, and raises brain energy levels.

Vinpocetine is also known to be an antioxidant and may protect the brain from aging. There are no known side effects, toxicity or contraindications at doses of one tablet (5mg each) three times daily (or two tablets three times daily for treatments).

(this one of the few drugs Vinpocentin that works straight away but it didin't agree with me one day after heavy drinking and lots of smart drugs before i cum in sex i feel to ground in pain with massive cluster headache had this happen for a few weeks till i figure out to stop thi smed and i was fine. I was killa no matter what pain killa i had my brain would overload this pressure cause i think it was a Tension&Cluster head ache
 
Vinpocetine can have interactions with other substances. I know I had some minor headache issues when trying to take acetyl-l-carnitine with it. So you need to exercise caution in combining it with other stuff.

As far as the racetams effecting a younger person, in all honesty I am kind of glad I didn't find out about them until just recently. I suspect they would be helpful for young people looking to improve their memory, however, earlier use in life would likely lead to dependence down the road so I would try to avoid it. The same thing goes for other ADD-stimulant-type drugs too though, I wouldn't have wanted to emerge from middle school or high school, hooked on adderall making straight As but to the point where I couldn't do anything without the drug in me.

To the piracetam doubters, I think one problem is that sometimes people are not challenging themselves intellectually enough or aware enough of themselves to see its effects. It has done wonders for me in enhancing memory the past year, after years of heavy pot smoking and other deleterious actions.

I can remember things after seeing them once now. Last semester in my teaching section, I could remember entire problems and number answers that I taught to one person and then taught to the entire class later for example. It was kind of funny, sometimes I would just throw the answers up on the board and the kids would wonder how I got them up so fast... I'll tell you this much, it wasn't because I did much lecture preparation beforehand! =P
 
Tadfish, I've always wanted to know why there's something not quite right with you. What is it? Are you really young? Or is it that you have a mental illness? I'm really curious

How old is young? I am an adult and mental illness well probably a few ;)
maybe i'll make a super brain child on nootopics one day.
 
Its just that if doing drugs like cannabis can have long term effects shrinking parts of brain and causing changes in brain long term i wonder if you can do the opposite.

I heard brain stops developing at 25 so thats why its best to start drugs later as an adult.
Like the biggest longest living drug users such as hunter s thompson and Shulgin's started once adults. Shulgin at like 40 years old and hunter in his 20's.

Hoffman who invented LSD took hydergin a smart drug since like he invented it to the day he died and he lived to 103.
 
PsychedelicPeptide, that's a rather thinly veiled jab. My job and my hobbies are considered by myself and others to be quite intellectually challenging - which is precisely how I can measure piracetam's effects.

Which are minimal, and comparable to a weak stimulant. Frankly, I find piracetam best for a long coffee-fueled day where it tends to reduce the jitters/etc.

The simple unfortunate fact is that if piracetam had clearly measurable mental enhancement effects it would be an instant best seller. It's not like people don't know about it or it's hard to get - it's just simply overhyped.

Piracetam is good for potentiation of stimulants, and possibly the psychedlics if you like the style of effects. On its own, it's rather underwhelming.
 
Well I'm sorry you didn't receive help in remembering things like I have experienced. I also find myself able to read much more information on a daily basis. Maybe its a more person-dependent issue than we are aware of. Or maybe I have other lifestyle factors or preexisting problems that aid its effect? I've been told I act like a person with ADD sometimes although never saw a doctor for it. I'm also a lifelong diabetic. Who knows maybe I was always at some kind of a limiting factor in some of my mental capacities?

Piracetam does have "measurable mental enhancement effects." Run a quick pubmed search if you are really interested.

Why hasn't it caught on with the public very much? I don't know. A lot of people are lazy these days and just don't take the initiative to find it- or don't care about being smarter period. I think to a certain extent, interest in cognitive enhancement through the use of small molecule drugs has only really exploded in the past 10 years or so, and you may find its use slowly expand as more and more people are seeking this effect.

Piracetam is also not a product marketed by big pharma which means it probably doesn't get much support from doctors. This certainly doesn't help it get more exposure to people who could benefit from it, but are not smart/technical enough to do the work to find out about it (especially the elderly) and then use it effectively.

I hope you also used it for at least a few months daily at at least a few grams of dose. At first it just gave me a buzz too, but after that wore down I found myself noticing the more subtle effects such as the rapid recall of numbers more often.
 
PP, I've used piracetam on and off for years. I'm very familiar with it. It's nice - it's just horribly, horribly, horribly overhyped. Profit motive mainly - a few kilos in bulk, resold in capsules, has better margins than most illegal drugs.

I'd be very careful about extending studies on rats and alzhiemers patients as "measurable mental effects" on a healthy subject.
 
So are these guys just full of shit then?

Drugs Aging. 1991 Jan;1(1):17-35.
Piracetam. An overview of its pharmacological properties and a review of its therapeutic use in senile cognitive disorders.
Vernon MW, Sorkin EM.

Adis International Drug Information Services, Auckland, New Zealand.

Piracetam is the first of the so-called 'nootropic' drugs, a unique class of drugs which affect mental function. In animal models and in healthy volunteers, the drug improves the efficiency of the higher telencephalic functions of the brain involved in cognitive processes such as learning and memory. The pharmacology of piracetam is unusual because it protects against various physical and chemical insults applied to the brain. It facilitates learning and memory in healthy animals and in animals whose brain function has been compromised, and it enhances interhemispheric transfer of information via callosal transmission. At the same time, even in relatively high dosages it is devoid of any sedative, analeptic or autonomic activities. How piracetam exerts its effects on memory disorders is still under investigation, although among other proposed mechanisms of action it is thought to facilitate central nervous system efficiency of cholinergic neurotransmission. Results from trials involving elderly patients with senile cognitive disorders have been equivocal, as have the results obtained when piracetam has been combined with acetylcholine precursors. Piracetam seems to be almost completely devoid of adverse effects, and is extremely well tolerated. In conclusion, opinion is divided as to the benefits of piracetam in the treatment of senile cognitive decline. Although double-blind studies in the elderly have produced mixed results, some such trials (particularly those involving larger numbers of patients) have reported favourable findings, thus offering some reason for cautious optimism in a notoriously difficult area of therapeutics. However, further investigations of piracetam alone and in combination therapy are required before any absolute conclusions can be drawn.

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Neurology. 1993 Feb;43(2):301-5.
Long-term and high-dose piracetam treatment of Alzheimer's disease.
Croisile B, Trillet M, Fondarai J, Laurent B, Mauguière F, Billardon M.

Department of Neurology, Hôpital Neurologique, Lyon, France.

Preclinical research suggests that piracetam (a nootropic drug) may improve cognitive functions, but previous studies have failed to demonstrate a clear benefit for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). We report a 1-year, double-blind, placebo-controlled, parallel-group study with a high dose of piracetam (8 g/d per os) in 33 ambulant patients with early probable AD. Thirty subjects completed the 1-year study. No improvement occurred in either group, but our results support the hypothesis that long-term administration of high doses of piracetam might slow the progression of cognitive deterioration in patients with AD. The most significant differences concerned the recall of pictures series and recent incident and remote memory. The drug was well-tolerated.

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Zh Nevrol Psikhiatr Im S S Korsakova. 2000;100(6):33-7.
["Fast" and "slow" components of psychotropic activity of the drugs with nootropic effects]
[Article in Russian]

Neznamov GG, Siuniakov SA, Davydova IA, Teleshova ES.

A clinical-pharmacological study was carried out to evaluate correlation of "fast" (nonspecific) and "slow" (specific) components of the action of the drugs with nootropic properties (piracetam, mexidol, tanacan) and to estimate their contribution to achieving therapeutic efficacy. The study was performed during 28 days using standard quantitative assay techniques in 79 patients with "Organic emotional-liable (asthenic) disorders" (F06.6, ICD-10). It was found that "fast" component of the psychotropic action of the drugs tested was presented by stimulating and anxiolytic effects, while a "slow" one--by specific nootropic activity. All these effects were fully independent with no correlation found, and this could, probably, be attributed to different mechanisms of their realization. It is shown that nootropic activity of piracetam was most significant in its therapeutic effect; and anxiolytic effect was most important for mexidol action. Meanwhile, stimulating and anxiolytic activities as well as positive influence on long-term memory were main components of tanacan effect. The results obtained show an important role of both specific and nonspecific ("fast") effects in realization of therapeutic action of the drugs with nootropic effects in patients with cognitive-mnestic and neurosis-like disorders.

----------------------------

There's other work around leviracetam showing it to gain efficacy over long-term use in epilepsy patients. Essentially its concentrations in the brain slowly build over time as you use it more. I've seen reference to piracetam doing this as well, but can't remember where. As far effects diminishing after stopping use, I don't know if I will disagree with you there, but this would be a hard concept to test for in vivo... likely requiring at least a year of a large groups of patients (hundreds plus controls) on and then year off complete with interval subject tests for memory/learning/word recall/etc to see if they worsen over time. Of course if I ever stop taking the stuff I guess I'll find out for myself (but that's not going to happen for a while...)

However I hope you yourself are actively involved in academic science to be suggesting the things that you are; that piracetam is nothing more than a "weak stimulant"!
 
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I've been taking all sorts of congnition-enhancing compounds since my early 20s and I've only had two types of experiences with them: postive effects or a totally null effect. Certainly worth experimenting with if you have the time and desire.

I would say that psychedelics and potent stimulants should never be administered before the CNS reaches a decent steady-state (which psychologically, is probably manifeted as maturity). I do have ADD, but was never on psychostimulants as a child--and I'm glad that I wasn't. You never know the full extent of the effects on the developing brain. I consider it a good thing that I was able to be fully aware of the effect with and without a given compound and make a rational, informed decision about whether or not I benefited.
 
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Pharm company want addictive drugs and anti depressant drugs to make money. Companys did get onto smart drugs many have been around for years. But i think maybe its cause u need large amounts of different substances at once that its not more well known.
Like if racetams you could have by them self in a low mg dose and they work right away then u might find doctors prescribing them.
Some drugs are known to work deprenyl for example.

I am looking forward to getting back on them and off the cones.
 
PP - Again, you provide links to

1. A review paper. This is garbage. You should know better.
2. A study on Alzhiemers patients (in which piracetam only slows the decline).
3. A very dodgy Russian paper in a terrible journal.

If this is the best you can come up with... well then. All I'm saying is that the evidence isn't there at all, there is a huge profit motive to sell piracetam, and "nootropic" effect is notoriously subject to "ego placebo".
 
Well I think it's done a lot for me so to each their own. I value my own trials & experience much more than what any paper says. So I'll gladly keep contributing to the profit margin.

Here if you don't like journals, then maybe you would like to read about the personal experiences of others?
Try this:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...nutrition_supplements/brain_function_boosters
And this:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Piracetam.shtml
If that's not enough, register here and search the forum for piracetam/nootropic experiences:
http://www.lycaeum.org
 
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