Opioids Using Oxy to quit Kratom? Advice needed. Hear me out.

[LordoftheRingz]

Background: I have put together a plan to quit Kratom. I have been on it for 4 years. The withdrawals are rough for me, even within 8hrs of my last dose. I used to party a lot in my 20s and have tried just about anything at least a few times. Except I've been out of the game for a long time. I've used Kratom as a crutch for years and was fine until I wasn't. I can't take my normal 8g doses anymore they make me feel anxious instead of high. I take 4g doses as a sort of middle ground between too much and withdrawals.

The Plan: I had an old friend give me 10 oxycodone 10mg. I also went to an addiction specialist and was prescribed hydroxyzine for sleep and clonidine as an opiate replacement. I'm going to wake up in the morning and cold turkey Kratom, use the oxys to get high for the first few days. Once I run out of those I will fall back on the 7 day supply of Clonidine and Hydroxyzine. After that point I'm completely sober for the first time in 17 years.

Considerations: I don't know if it's getting older, knowing more or being burned in the past but I'm wary of any medications or even interactions these days. I just hope this works. My thinking is, the oxys will trick my brain off of Kratom the same way I used Kratom to immediately quit drinking. I considered using grapefruit juice to stretch the oxys out but I have no clue what I'm doing with potentiates, or how safe it would be even with a low dose like 10mg. [I've done multiple 30mgs before but I'm wary nowadays.] I'm also concerned that since Kratom and Oxy are both opioids the Oxys will just prolong my addiction. People use Kratom to quit Oxy, I can't find much on doing it the other way around.

What do you guys think? What would you change or keep? What would you do?

Thanks for any input. I would love to hear if anyone has gone through this!

[JUST A SIDE NOTE: Anytime I try to find info on interactions/potentiating I am met with google results for suicide hotlines, inpatient addiction centers and webmd-esque crap saying everything and anything is going to kill me. I've even read kratom and nyquil is a death sentence when I had a cold. The internet has become very unreliable for this sort of information. They just spam you with results to scare you out of anything. Even basic OTC shit.]

 

[BK38]

I understand your frustration, but going from kratom to oxy is analogous to going from a ballpeen hammer to a sledge hammer in my opinion. Oxy is much stronger and much more habit forming than kratom leaf.

I think, in all likelihood what will happen is that you will get high for a few days on Oxy and then be in withdrawal from both Kratom and Oxy at the same time!

Then you'll just be left with Clonidide and Hydroxyzine, which will help a bit, but you will probably not be a happy camper.

I also used Kratom leaf at moderate-high doses for a year straight and the acute withdrawals felt quite protracted to me. Oxy WDs are terrible and even a few days use (especially given you have been through withdrawal before), means you will likely experience WDs in the form of kindling.

My advice, as hard as it may be, would be to skip the oxy entirely; I think it's just inviting more misery.

I think you should try and get through the Kratom wds with the meds the doc has scripted you. That would be ideal.

Alternatively, give someone you trust the oxy and get them to dole out very small amounts of oxy to ease the really really acute withdrawal of the first few days. Perhaps have them give you 5mg every 12 hours for the first 3 days, then cut it out completely. You need to be clear with them that you want to get clean and have very strict rules about when they can give you some oxy and how much.

But like I said, if you really want to get clean, I think the oxy is just a bad idea.

P.S. Stop using Google to find info. I much prefer Duckduckgo as my search engine and you'll probably have better results.

Feel free to PM me or msg me here.

 

[LordoftheRingz]

I understand your frustration, but going from kratom to oxy is analogous to going from a ballpeen hammer to a sledge hammer in my opinion. Oxy is much stronger and much more habit forming than kratom leaf.

I think, in all likelihood what will happen is that you will get high for a few days on Oxy and then be in withdrawal from both Kratom and Oxy at the same time!

Then you'll just be left with Clonidide and Hydroxyzine, which will help a bit, but you will probably not be a happy camper.

I also used Kratom leaf at moderate-high doses for a year straight and the acute withdrawals felt quite protracted to me. Oxy WDs are terrible and even a few days use (especially given you have been through withdrawal before), means you will likely experience WDs in the form of kindling.

My advice, as hard as it may be, would be to skip the oxy entirely; I think it's just inviting more misery.

I think you should try and get through the Kratom wds with the meds the doc has scripted you. That would be ideal.

Alternatively, give someone you trust the oxy and get them to dole out very small amounts of oxy to ease the really really acute withdrawal of the first few days. Perhaps have them give you 5mg every 12 hours for the first 3 days, then cut it out completely. You need to be clear with them that you want to get clean and have very strict rules about when they can give you some oxy and how much.

But like I said, if you really want to get clean, I think the oxy is just a bad idea.

P.S. Stop using Google to find info. I much prefer Duckduckgo as my search engine and you'll probably have better results.

Feel free to PM me or msg me here.

Hey thank you for the reply! I think this is some very solid advice. I'm not completely sure what I will do yet but will definitely consider this. If I was not an opiate enjoyer I would abstain from the oxy and still might. I will mention that I have used oxy/hydro for a week here or there over the years whenever I could snag a bottle and even though it's been a long time and I was not on kratom before, my withdrawals were a slightly runny nose for the first day or two. I hope that if I do use the oxy the kratom does not induce kindling crossover with oxy 'cause that would suck. In my mind I'm using them to trick myself off Kratom because I would feel what a real opiate is like after 4 years of subpar Kratom. I'm not 100% either way the only solid is I have to quit Kratom. I will post on this thread once I begin, and hopefully on the other side of this - for science, ofc. Thanks again.

 

[BK38]

Hey thank you for the reply! I think this is some very solid advice. I'm not completely sure what I will do yet but will definitely consider this. If I was not an opiate enjoyer I would abstain from the oxy and still might. I will mention that I have used oxy/hydro for a week here or there over the years whenever I could snag a bottle and even though it's been a long time and I was not on kratom before, my withdrawals were a slightly runny nose for the first day or two. I hope that if I do use the oxy the kratom does not induce kindling crossover with oxy 'cause that would suck. In my mind I'm using them to trick myself off Kratom because I would feel what a real opiate is like after 4 years of subpar Kratom. I'm not 100% either way the only solid is I have to quit Kratom. I will post on this thread once I begin, and hopefully on the other side of this - for science, ofc. Thanks again.

You're most welcome. Stay safe.

 

[PenguinWithNapalm]

This sounds like an awful idea. Using a far more powerful narcotic to “get high one last time” does not sound like a “plan” to get sober. That’s the wrong way of thinking about it from the very start. Once the oxy is gone you are going to miss the euphoria and end up back on kratom. I think you should just wean yourself off of the kratom

 

[CfZrx]

Background: I have put together a plan to quit Kratom. I have been on it for 4 years. The withdrawals are rough for me, even within 8hrs of my last dose. I used to party a lot in my 20s and have tried just about anything at least a few times. Except I've been out of the game for a long time. I've used Kratom as a crutch for years and was fine until I wasn't. I can't take my normal 8g doses anymore they make me feel anxious instead of high. I take 4g doses as a sort of middle ground between too much and withdrawals.

The Plan: I had an old friend give me 10 oxycodone 10mg. I also went to an addiction specialist and was prescribed hydroxyzine for sleep and clonidine as an opiate replacement. I'm going to wake up in the morning and cold turkey Kratom, use the oxys to get high for the first few days. Once I run out of those I will fall back on the 7 day supply of Clonidine and Hydroxyzine. After that point I'm completely sober for the first time in 17 years.

Considerations: I don't know if it's getting older, knowing more or being burned in the past but I'm wary of any medications or even interactions these days. I just hope this works. My thinking is, the oxys will trick my brain off of Kratom the same way I used Kratom to immediately quit drinking. I considered using grapefruit juice to stretch the oxys out but I have no clue what I'm doing with potentiates, or how safe it would be even with a low dose like 10mg. [I've done multiple 30mgs before but I'm wary nowadays.] I'm also concerned that since Kratom and Oxy are both opioids the Oxys will just prolong my addiction. People use Kratom to quit Oxy, I can't find much on doing it the other way around.

What do you guys think? What would you change or keep? What would you do?

Thanks for any input. I would love to hear if anyone has gone through this!

[JUST A SIDE NOTE: Anytime I try to find info on interactions/potentiating I am met with google results for suicide hotlines, inpatient addiction centers and webmd-esque crap saying everything and anything is going to kill me. I've even read kratom and nyquil is a death sentence when I had a cold. The internet has become very unreliable for this sort of information. They just spam you with results to scare you out of anything. Even basic OTC shit.]

All I know is throw a dozen benzos my way and I can kick without really giving a fuck that I am ill. The only time that wasn't the case was when I kicked methadone for a couple days. That time I was so nauseated I couldn't hardly stand up without getting the dry heaves!
To make matters worse, I couldnt find any benzos that time!!! It was hell.

I know you can kick kratom easily if you have benzos bro! I would do that instead of use oxys to kick if it were me.

Beware if you are an alcoholic as the benzos will cause the same type of blackouts and poor choices.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

Even if using oxycodone to taper from kratom worked, 100mg wouldn't be anywhere near enough.

Short tapers lasting only a few days aren't useful.

 

[jasperkent]

I used kratom to kick my devastating oxycodone habit 5 years ago. Still on the kratom & I'm OK with that. It's cheaper, safer, and much less disruptive to my life.

I wouldn't get back on oxy if you paid me.

 

[Halif2]

My advice, as hard as it may be, would be to skip the oxy entirely; I think it's just inviting more misery.

I think you should try and get through the Kratom wds with the meds the doc has scripted you. That would be ideal.

I wholeheartedly agree with this advice.

In my mind I'm using them to trick myself off Kratom because I would feel what a real opiate is like after 4 years of subpar Kratom.

This is kind of a bizarre line of thought. I've personally made countless poor decisions and done countless illogical things, so I don't mean to come across as superior or judgemental when I say this, but I don't think you're in a good mindset for your upcoming detox attempt. For instance, this:

I'm going to wake up in the morning and cold turkey Kratom, use the oxys to get high for the first few days.

doesn't make much sense to me. It's not really cold turkey if you're going to "get high" by swapping out your regular drug of dependence for a much stronger drug in the same general class. I fully understand wanting to 'trick' your brain by doing some crazy pro lifehack manoeuvres and somehow side-stepping discomfort, but going into an opiate detox believing that you'll be able to avoid all suffering is a recipe for failure.

People use Kratom to quit Oxy, I can't find much on doing it the other way around.

There's a good reason why there's no info on doing it that way!

Going back to BK38's solid advice: It's cold comfort to hear it now, but you're in a better situation now in "only" needing to get off kratom. You're potentially setting yourself up for some serious regret if you end up going through the oxy and then ending up with some combined oxy/kratom withdrawal.

Whatever you end up doing, I wish you the best of luck with it. I'm also preparing to try a detox (from heroin) for the millionth time. Good luck to us both!

PS. I know what you mean about the internet search results being totally fucking useless these days! It's just as you say: Instead of leading you to any actual answers, you get endless lists of health warnings from government pages and shit. That's why this forum is so valuable.

 

[cnnka]

Idk why so much fuzz around kratom WD I used it for a year high dosages I quit cold turkey 1 week I was sick but manageable I did go to work and live my life normally as if I had the flu and the shits on the nights I did take Xanax and hydroxyzine for the anxiety and I was fine , I did sleep some nights also without the medications.

Don’t justify the use of oxy for quitting kratom be honest with yourself tell that you want to get a good opioid high before you quit for real.
Using oxy for quitting kratom it’s only going to make the WD worse especially psychologically.

 

[jasperkent]

"I'm going to get high one last time"

...oft-repeated words of every addict just before their umpteenth unsuccessful attempt to quit their drug of choice.

 

[Opana313]

I love the mind game you are trying to indulge yourself with OP but it's backwards is all.

People have switched to weaker opioids to get off of their current opioid of choice..but you are trying to switch to high dose and then nothing... maybe take a 5 or 10mg during the acute phase when you absolutely can not bare it..idk I can easily see you doing all 10 as soon as possible and then falling back to kratom(HOPEFULLY, DON'T CHASE THE OXY).

This has live and learn written all over it, but it's not impossible...it could very well work just perfectly for him, especially since ignorance is bliss, therefore placebo effect here has a higher probability.

 

[Mycophile]

All I know is throw a dozen benzos my way and I can kick without really giving a fuck that I am ill. The only time that wasn't the case was when I kicked methadone for a couple days. That time I was so nauseated I couldn't hardly stand up without getting the dry heaves!
To make matters worse, I couldnt find any benzos that time!!! It was hell.

I know you can kick kratom easily if you have benzos bro! I would do that instead of use oxys to kick if it were me.

Beware if you are an alcoholic as the benzos will cause the same type of blackouts and poor choices.

Just curious, but how much easier do you think Kratom WD is when you have benzos (I have Klonopin) vs if you don't?

I mean I don't know how you'd answer but maybe like, 1 out of 5 for example: 5 = benzos make it so much easier it's not even remotely the same thing 4= benzos make it much much easier 3= benzos make it considerably easier 2 = benzos make it moderately easier 1 = benzos make it a little bit easier.

The reason I ask is that I'm prescribed Klonopin so it's always in my system (I know I'll have to stop at some point but that's a different story) and I'm always going through Kratom WD and I find it bothersome but it's not so horrible. The worst thing about it is actually trying to be truly productive while in WD.

So anyway, I have no idea what Kratom WD feels like without Klonopin in my system. I hope I don't ever find out that it's like MUCH MUCH harder.

That being said, when I do eventually get off Klonopin my doctor wants me to use Gabapentin which I hear is possibly the best thing for Kratom WD, so I don't think I'm ever really going to be without a reasonable med to help me.

And also, do you think benzos like Klonopin help more for Kratom WD or Gabapentin?

 

[Letsparty#2]

Thats like changing your shirt when you shit your pants ...
Just taper then jump.

 

[tinmania]

I used kratom to kick my devastating oxycodone habit 5 years ago. Still on the kratom & I'm OK with that. It's cheaper, safer, and much less disruptive to my life.

I wouldn't get back on oxy if you paid me.

Thank you! I’ve been trying to find even a shred of hope that kratom can help get off of oxycodone. Ironically I took Kratom before I was diagnosed with prostate cancer and was already thinking of getting off of it (and tried unsuccessfully to quit Kratom).

I was in great pain from the prostate cancer, which had been misdiagnosed for over a year as a lumbar disc issue, which caused my hip pain. In fact my extreme hip pain is what got me started on Kratom. It provided at least some relief along with massive amounts of otc ibuprofen or naproxen.

Immediately after my cancer diagnosis I was prescribed oxycodone. And then thereafter just about any opioid that is still prescribed: morphine, morphine ER, hydrocodone, tramadol, and fentanyl patches. I started to think if I’m going to go out I’m glad they are willing to give me whatever it takes to not feel it. I quickly came to the conclusion that oxy seem to work the best and at that point didn’t seem to have very many side effects.

I first thought oxy was a godsend because it immediately evaporated any desire or need for Kratom.

Fast forward to today and the cancer treatment was able to put me in remission. My hip pain evaporated. It had been so bad I was barely able to drive because I could not lift my left leg without lifting it up with my arms to get in the car.

But I couldn’t stop the opioids. At first it was just because that was my new normal. But then I realize I was definitely physically dependent. Even trying to taper was horrible. Worse than when I tried to quit kratom cold turkey.

I cut down my oxy used to just the morning and then night. But in between I felt like shit. I found that taking just one or two of the kratom capsules I still had seemed to make it much easier to get through the afternoons. Eventually I would often need to take a capsule or two through the night.

But I couldn’t find anything when searching to at least confirm that the crayon was helping me not take oxy nonstop. I’m on an iPhone so I don’t know if it’s different on android, and I should know that I have turned off every warning possible on my iPhone, but even a cursory search blasted me with results about the dangers, where to find help, etc.

Even when I searched for “can Kratomhelp with quitting opioids“ the results were unproductive. Even if I found something that seemed to confirm what I experienced, it would seem to then imply not only didn’t it work but you would then be addicted to kratom: so you would be worse off even to try it.

So reading your reply at least confirmed I wasn’t going crazy. I am now trying to slowly taper the oxy, and yes I am using kratom to help with that.

I was taking three 10 mg oxys in the morning and again at night. It was getting to the point where I only felt even close to normal about an hour in the morning and an hour again at night. The rest of the time I just felt weird, not myself, full of anxiety, and very little sleep (which only made me feel even worse).

I now am taking 15 mg oxy in the morning and again at night. But I do take kratom at the same time. And I use Kratom if needed in the afternoons and through the night, but usually only one capsule or perhaps two if I’m feeling particularly crappy.

I know I’m trading one addiction for another. It’s just that I feel I can deal with kratom better than the OXY. So thanks again for posting this. At least it confirms what I already believed but had been questioning.

 

[thurston]

I haven't read all the posts but stay away from that hydoxizine , that will cause unimaginably bad restless limbs. Doc gave you bad advice on that one.