Using multiple days: a survey

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

I wanted to get an idea of how common it is for people to roll back-to-back/multiple days in a row.
This is one of the biggest no-no's for HR but I'm curious how many people at some point in there usage have rolled consecutive days.

This seems to be the root of a lot of the problems people suffer from mdma, but at least for me (and I'm sure quite a few others) this HR rule was learned after the fact. Not knowing the specific pharmacology of mdma, I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking it can be binged like other drugs.

So what's your experience. Did you have to cause some neuronal havoc to learn this lesson? Were you smart enough to research your shit before you played with fire? Or did you do it and escaped unscathed and unaware of this danger? Hopefully, we can get some idea of just how common it is to roll multiple days and learn some HR as a result.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

I had done it two days in a row a couple of times, but that wasn't what ultimately screwed me as it was right at the beginning of my MDMA taking days (was making almost every mistake in the HR book at this stage).

Weekly rolling and the occasional outrageous dose (by binging/ redosing up to 24 hours but not multiple days) screwed me in the end, although I'm sure something similar would have happened if I rolled multiple days at the end of my honeymoon with MDMA.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

Dpd, thanks for bringing up the redosing. My fateful weekend involved quite a bit of that as well.

It's crazy how counterintuitive mdma usage is. In my ignorance I assumed that breaking a couple pills up over the night would be 'safer' than taking them at once. How wrong I was.

Man I wish I would've learned about the risks/effects of drugs in school instead of things like photosynthesis. Would've benefited me a lot more in life.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

20 years ago I was using MDMA more than enough times to make the mods here call the cops. But this was the finest MDMA. Even so, it was and is a waste to use on consecutive days. We tried it. With low tolerance it will work a second day, but it won't be as good.

Having said that there was a period we took MDMA twice or three times a week. With a gap of a day or days inbetween it DID work, perfectly, for a very long time. And I'm talking years.

No damage was done. Good times were had. We only took one pill per session. That really was all you needed back then.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

20 years ago I was using MDMA more than enough times to make the mods here call the cops. But this was the finest MDMA. Even so, it was and is a waste to use on consecutive days. We tried it. With low tolerance it will work a second day, but it won't be as good.

Having said that there was a period we took MDMA twice or three times a week. With a gap of a day or days inbetween it DID work, perfectly, for a very long time. And I'm talking years.

No damage was done. Good times were had. We only took one pill per session. That really was all you needed back then.

You never took more than one pill per session despite the fact that you were doing it 2-3 times a week for years? Did tolerance not force you to up the dose at any point?

I'm beginning to think redosing and dosing way too high has the potential to cause a lot more "damage", alterations to the brain or whatever you want to call it, than total pill count and maybe even frequent dosing as long as you don't end up popping the pills like they're tic tacs (high doses/ redosing).

Very, very jealous that you managed to keep your regular usage up for so logn without consequences haha.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

Dpd, thanks for bringing up the redosing. My fateful weekend involved quite a bit of that as well.

It's crazy how counterintuitive mdma usage is. In my ignorance I assumed that breaking a couple pills up over the night would be 'safer' than taking them at once. How wrong I was.

Man I wish I would've learned about the risks/effects of drugs in school instead of things like photosynthesis. Would've benefited me a lot more in life.

Yes, too true. Not to mention the fact that redosing definitely feels like the right thing to do when you're approaching the end of such a powerful high and still feel like you're in top of the world/ nothing can go wrong, even if experience tells you that it won't bring you back up to the same peak.

It really is too bad that people like us generally have to find out the consequences of using MDMA the "wrong way" by getting a little fried. I really think harm reduction information is more important for MDMA than any other drug out there because of all the misinformation about it, which goes both ways. It is either portrayed as a poison or the safest drug out there - no grey area whatsoever.

 

[ggarza921]

I've only used "E" twice lifetime. The two times happened to be back to back days about 2.5 months ago. I knew nothing of HR or of giving the serotonin system time to replenish, being a noobie. So I got pretty fried. I still made it through the school semester with good grades; however, I'm still recovering to this day. Dealing with slight head pressure, DR and brain fog symptoms.

 

[mj1945]

You never took more than one pill per session despite the fact that you were doing it 2-3 times a week for years? Did tolerance not force you to up the dose at any point?

I'm beginning to think redosing and dosing way too high has the potential to cause a lot more "damage", alterations to the brain or whatever you want to call it, than total pill count and maybe even frequent dosing as long as you don't end up popping the pills like they're tic tacs (high doses/ redosing).

Very, very jealous that you managed to keep your regular usage up for so logn without consequences haha.

I'm curious too to which one is worse, the high doses, consecutive days or redoses. From my experience I think consecutive days caused the most damage for me. I'm not sure how high a dose 200-300 mg is to some but it was usually around there, or around 300-400 once the tolerance was crazy. It's all pretty much the same I think, once you get to around 200 mgs you basically don't have much serotonin to release. Same with redosing, after a certainamount of time you have none left to release. I only think the next day is worse to dose because your body is trying to start the recovery process.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

I'm curious too to which one is worse, the high doses, consecutive days or redoses. From my experience I think consecutive days caused the most damage for me. I'm not sure how high a dose 200-300 mg is to some but it was usually around there, or around 300-400 once the tolerance was crazy. It's all pretty much the same I think, once you get to around 200 mgs you basically don't have much serotonin to release. Same with redosing, after a certainamount of time you have none left to release. I only think the next day is worse to dose because your body is trying to start the recovery process.

From what I remember, a lot of the studies which demonstrated considerably damage involved injecting rats/ primates with high doses, on multiple days. If we consider the fact that some of these studies were designed to induce as much damage as possible (in order to get the best idea of what kind of damage MDMA can do etc), it would seem that replicating this pattern of usage would be the most harmful way to go for humans too.

I think a study comparing high doses, redosing and multiple day use would be very interesting. Until then, it's probably all speculation. Based on my own personal situation, I can only confirm that ridiculous doses increase damage potential a hell of a lot.

 

[Diloadid]

I have taken MDMA up to four days in a row. All different ROA's. I find injecting MDMA will produce consistent results day after day after day.

 

[Folley]

The few times I've done it have led to SEVERELY worse hangovers that lasts for weeks. It became clear that it was simply never worth the experience after 6 hours



Even waiting for 2 weeks made the comedown fucking awful... I always try to have 45 days at least as a break. It's clear that redosing and dosing days in a row EXPONENTIALLY increases neurotoxicity, it's just not worth it.

 

[futura2012]

I'm curious too to which one is worse, the high doses, consecutive days or redoses. From my experience I think consecutive days caused the most damage for me. I'm not sure how high a dose 200-300 mg is to some but it was usually around there, or around 300-400 once the tolerance was crazy. It's all pretty much the same I think, once you get to around 200 mgs you basically don't have much serotonin to release. Same with redosing, after a certainamount of time you have none left to release. I only think the next day is worse to dose because your body is trying to start the recovery process.

I would agree with this I think the consecutive days is probably the worst however, this is also likely dose dependant.

What would be worse? An initial dose of 200mG or an initial dose of 50mG followed by the next night of another 50mG?

or an initial dose of 200mG or an initial dose of 60mG followed by another 60mG two hours later?

Its a very debatable topic. It can be answered looking at the pharmacology of MDMA but this in itself is super complex.

I think in all of our cases looking back you can feel when you have overdone it. A night of a single 120mG pill you peak you comedown you go home relax and its a fairly easy thing on the body.

Alternatively you go to a festival drink, take several pills, find a chick, hang out in a tent, drink more, take more pills the following night. I think the longterm damage is an entire package of abuse. Particularly as the multiple day binges are usually at festivals etc when theres a lot of abuse in the mix.

I also think lifetime dose has a role to play also. I have read a lot of reports that suggest lifetime doses in the 50 type areas are deemed relatively low in terms of damage yet 200+ doses are deemed high and can have a detromental effect. I realise this is debatable but from my own experience I suspect an amount of accumulation happened. Once again its not clear cut because your accumulation may have been executed over 20 years or 1 year so duration of intake is also a factor.

Its a very interesting topic for research and it would be great to read more reports about it.

 

[mj1945]

The few times I've done it have led to SEVERELY worse hangovers that lasts for weeks. It became clear that it was simply never worth the experience after 6 hours



Even waiting for 2 weeks made the comedown fucking awful... I always try to have 45 days at least as a break. It's clear that redosing and dosing days in a row EXPONENTIALLY increases neurotoxicity, it's just not worth it.

So taking say 175 mgs plus 50 mgs an hour after your first dose would be much worse than taking about 200 mgs at once? I like to redose once cause shows and after parties go for so damn long. If it's that much of a difference I'd just take a larger first dose and smoke some green to get me back up.

 

[futura2012]

So taking say 175 mgs plus 50 mgs an hour after your first dose would be much worse than taking about 200 mgs at once?

If you levelled the playing field a bit and either took 200mG initial dose or 150mG + 50mG two hours later which is worse?

From what I read on BL some users suggest the 150+50 is a no no. It relates to free radicals i am told.

However, like yourself I always used to adopt this regime because anymore than 150mG would have me sitting down in a state of confusion. A redose a few hours later was much more pleasant and made the trip last longer.

Perhaps the duration of the trip is the giveaway. the longer you trip the more damage you do?

 

[lwal44]

At the start of this year I did mdma two days in a row. The comedown was a little bit bad.
Also did it 3 days in a row for some weeks ago, and I dosed again the week after. Got some anxiety because of it but most of it is gone by now.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

From what I remember, a lot of the studies which demonstrated considerably damage involved injecting rats/ primates with high doses, on mulktiple days. If we consider the fact that some of these studies were designed to induce as much damage as possible (in order to get the best idea of what kind of damage MDMA can do etc), it would seem that replicating this pattern of usage would be the most harmful way to go for humans too.

I think a study comparing high doses, redosing and multiple day use would be very interesting. Until then, it's probably all speculation. Based on my own personal situation, I can only confirm that ridiculous doses increase damage potential a hell of a lot.

Yeah when I first read those studies I shuddered. Basically realized I conducted this same experiment on my self.

It's amazing in its more than thirty years of popular usage more info hasn't spread about this drug. I can't believe that we're sitting here in 2013 still trying to figure out what the fuck happened.

I mean I can't imagine that nobody in the 80s and 90s abused this drug or suffered any consequences. Why is there such a lack of personal stories from these decades. Something doesn't add up.

I would love for somebody to interview rollers from these years and do a study on this. Anybody have any theories?

 

[Hapomen22]

Yeah when I first read those studies I shuddered. Basically realized I conducted this same experiment on my self.

It's amazing in its more than thirty years of popular usage more info hasn't spread about this drug. I can't believe that we're sitting here in 2013 still trying to figure out what the fuck happened.

I mean I can't imagine that nobody in the 80s and 90s abused this drug or suffered any consequences. Why is there such a lack of personal stories from these decades. Something doesn't add up.

I would love for somebody to interview rollers from these years and do a study on this. Anybody have any theories?

My theory being that back in those days, it wasn't the golden age of research chemicals as it is now in 2013. Nowadays people are convinced they are taking MDMA, when in reality, most of the "molly" is nasty spinoffs that try to mimic it's effects but have bad after effects and are more harmfull.

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

My theory being that back in those days, it wasn't the golden age of research chemicals as it is now in 2013. Nowadays people are convinced they are taking MDMA, when in reality, most of the "molly" is nasty spinoffs that try to mimic it's effects but have bad after effects and are more harmfull.

I agree that probably accounts for some of this discrepancy but I have a problem with this explanation for several reasons.

First quite a few people who have experienced negative effects have tested their product and were ingesting mdma.

Second I've almost never seen a suggestion as to what this mysterious chemical that's causing incredibly similar symptoms in all these people might be. Saying you probably didn't ingest mdma doesn't quite cut it as a blanket explanation in my book.

If somebody complains of negative effects from acid people often suggest that it might have been an NBOME instead.

In mdma's case everyone just says it probably wasn't mdma.

And third we know mdma is neurotoxic. Even people who are baffled by these comedown stories will admit that redosing/using consecutive days has negative consequences. Which leads me to believe mdma most likely is the culprit especially when abused.

What I'm wondering is why the danger of redosing/rolling consecutive days didn't become common knowledge a longtime ago. Why didn't this information become part of mdma drug culture long before?

Hope I don't sound like an ass. Thanks for contributing your theory Hapomen.

 

[dpd_mnk92]

Yeah when I first read those studies I shuddered. Basically realized I conducted this same experiment on my self.

It's amazing in its more than thirty years of popular usage more info hasn't spread about this drug. I can't believe that we're sitting here in 2013 still trying to figure out what the fuck happened.

I mean I can't imagine that nobody in the 80s and 90s abused this drug or suffered any consequences. Why is there such a lack of personal stories from these decades. Something doesn't add up.

I would love for somebody to interview rollers from these years and do a study on this. Anybody have any theories?

I personally think the unavoidable methodological limitations of studies down the years has been a big factor. For instance, it is almost impossible to control all the extraneous variables (poly drug use, lifestyle factors associated with MDMA etc) affecting the main, dependent variable (e.g. IQ). An extremely expensive, relatively pro-MDMA study which recently claimed to eliminate most of these unwanted variables, ended up with a sample size of less than 100 people (40+ rollers, 40+ non-rolling ravers), which is pretty ridiculous - think that shows just how hard it is to research something like this.

There is also the fact that it is very difficult to quantify the predominant symptoms of MDMA abuse (anxiety, emotional blunting/ anhedonia, hppd... the list goes on), so most studies end up being based on some general aptitude tests, which captures a tiny part of the whole long term comedown ordeal. Besides, most abusers don't appear to deal with much more than brain fog on this front, so it is clearly not one of the most common symptoms. Since we can't learn much from the studies conducted down the years... We are left with anecdotes!

You just have to look at some of the responses people make on this forum to realise no one takes an anecdote seriously! If an MD user and his group of 20 MD using friends have never experienced any negative effects, then it happens to no one. So I guess what I'm trying to say is... Some 80s raver's tragic story about lingering depression and depersonalisation is hardly going to echo through the ages!

 

[xxxyakinikuxxx]

I personally think the unavoidable methodological limitations of studies down the years has been a big factor. For instance, it is almost impossible to control all the extraneous variables (poly drug use, lifestyle factors associated with MDMA etc) affecting the main, dependent variable (e.g. IQ). An extremely expensive, relatively pro-MDMA study which recently claimed to eliminate most of these unwanted variables, ended up with a sample size of less than 100 people (40+ rollers, 40+ non-rolling ravers), which is pretty ridiculous - think that shows just how hard it is to research something like this.

There is also the fact that it is very difficult to quantify the predominant symptoms of MDMA abuse (anxiety, emotional blunting/ anhedonia, hppd... the list goes on), so most studies end up being based on some general aptitude tests, which captures a tiny part of the whole long term comedown ordeal. Besides, most abusers don't appear to deal with much more than brain fog on this front, so it is clearly not one of the most common symptoms. Since we can't learn much from the studies conducted down the years... We are left with anecdotes!

You just have to look at some of the responses people make on this forum to realise no one takes an anecdote seriously! If an MD user and his group of 20 MD using friends have never experienced any negative effects, then it happens to no one. So I guess what I'm trying to say is... Some 80s raver's tragic story about lingering depression and depersonalisation is hardly going to echo through the ages!

Really good points. I guess the people who get burned are statistically insignificant enough that their stories don't make it into the overall narrative.

Still it's disappointing that in societies where rumors like Marilyn Manson getting ribs removed to fellate himself spread like wildfire, more knowledge about the safe usage of mdma hasn't spread by word of mouth.

This is why BL is such a great place but unfortunately a lot of people only discover it after its too late.