Using a nebulizer to inhale MXE

[delic]

F&B beat me to it:

[...]
A better bet would be ketamine in a nebulizer as it's in salt form so it's not alkaline/caustic, although you'll still get the vile taste. Using a nebulizer is like slow onset from smoking, but still faster than routes other than IV & smoking

I was very pleased to see cheap MXE has happened to come together with cheap ebay ultrasonic nebulizers to make it possible to get a fast onset and short duration from MXE using an efficient and gentle route. All this involves is putting a saturated solution of MXE in water in a nebulizer (looks like a coffee grinder) and inhaling the mist that comes out. It's the gentlest ROA I could imagine, ideal for our inner children.

I was hoping my friends here would help explore the possibilities. I already have one in mind. A friend has recently asked to try ketamine, and instead of the potentially disturbing injecting or snorting, a few drags on this thing should give him a very safe, brief feel for the experience.

I haven't even tried it with other RCs yet.

 

[psood0nym]

I'll bump this more because nebulizers are an interesting and promising ROA technology that is under-discussed than because of their practicality with MXE specifically. If I understand how nebulizers work correctly, they should create vapor that is as about as potent as perfect vaporization for any water soluble compound. In practice, a good nebulizer should actually be more efficient and safer than most attempts at vaporization, because there is no risk of pyrolysis into inactive and/or potentially dangerous compounds (right?). You're still going to get the nasty taste of whatever chemical mist you're inhaling as it deposits some of itself in your mouth, but yeah, bioavailbility should be almost equipotent to perfect vaporization (near or equal to IM/IV levels[some gets lost in the nebulizer tubing and in your mouth I'd think]). Personally, I'd be more inclined to use a nebulizer for water soluble compounds more potent and soluble than MXE, simply because of the amount of vapor that needs to be inhaled.

Thanks for reminding everybody of the possibility!

 

[psood0nym]

^I don't think so. It'd just take more breaths to ingest. With a nebulizer I'd think you'd want the highest concentration of drug per volumetric unit possible in order to speed delivery. You'd probably want to shove the mouth piece as far back in your mouth as possible to minimize the amount of drug mist solution that's deposited on your mouth area (as that's just sublingual/oral administration). For those who aren't sure they get it, with a nebulizer we're simply talking about breathing drugged mist. The "mist" is distinct from the vapor formed by heat because it is created using high frequency sound waves rather than heat - which causes undesirable changes to drugs by burning them into other molecules.

EDIT: A nebulized drug is easier to accept because of its low invasiveness. It's just breathing a drug, which is arguably easier than swallowing a pill. There's no more gentle way of initiating a person into a drug experience than a low dose administered with a nebulizer.

 

[delic]

I played around with this a bit using a saturated solution of MXE. It definitely works, giving the expected effects after a few breaths, and it is an incredibly mild experience with little problem from the taste or coughing. However, it doesn't last as long as I would have expected from the amount I would estimate that I am absorbing. The nebulizer is supposed to deliver 0.4 to 1.0 mL of solution per minute. With a solubility of MXE of roughly 50 mg/mL, that would be 35 mg after a minute of inhaling, which I expected would either be much stronger than 35 mg taken IM or would last as long as 35 mg taken IM with a more rapid onset. That amount taken IM would make it hard for me to function for a few hours, but with the nebulizer I seem functional after just a few minutes, and it isn't particularly intense either. Without some actual measurements to verify exactly how much dose is being delivered, I can only think that there is some form of insta-tolerance, like what some people have observed with etaqualone, that would make the inhaled MXE have significantly less duration and overall "area under the curve" than the same amount taken IM. I haven't tried IV to see how it compares with IM.

So the bottom line is that much more mileage is obtained from MXE taken IM than from inhalation. The nebulized MXE solution was very similar to vaporized MXE base. Until now I had assumed that MXE decomposed when vaporized in a pipe, accounting for its weaker effects than if the hydrochloride it had been prepared from had been taken IM, but now I think it was the route. The one good thing about the nebulized MXE was the ease and gentleness of the method, making it promising for someone who doesn't like non-oral routes and wants to feel the effects for only a few minutes in a very controlled manner.

 

[!!4iV4HF9R34g]

I want a nebulizer just so I can nebulize things..
Hiyah!; Nebulae! I am the creator! Lolol, fun stuff.

 

[psood0nym]

I played around with this a bit using a saturated solution of MXE. It definitely works, giving the expected effects after a few breaths, and it is an incredibly mild experience with little problem from the taste or coughing. However, it doesn't last as long as I would have expected from the amount I would estimate that I am absorbing. The nebulizer is supposed to deliver 0.4 to 1.0 mL of solution per minute. With a solubility of MXE of roughly 50 mg/mL, that would be 35 mg after a minute of inhaling, which I expected would either be much stronger than 35 mg taken IM or would last as long as 35 mg taken IM with a more rapid onset. That amount taken IM would make it hard for me to function for a few hours, but with the nebulizer I seem functional after just a few minutes, and it isn't particularly intense either. Without some actual measurements to verify exactly how much dose is being delivered, I can only think that there is some form of insta-tolerance, like what some people have observed with etaqualone, that would make the inhaled MXE have significantly less duration and overall "area under the curve" than the same amount taken IM. I haven't tried IV to see how it compares with IM.

So the bottom line is that much more mileage is obtained from MXE taken IM than from inhalation. The nebulized MXE solution was very similar to vaporized MXE base. Until now I had assumed that MXE decomposed when vaporized in a pipe, accounting for its weaker effects than if the hydrochloride it had been prepared from had been taken IM, but now I think it was the route. The one good thing about the nebulized MXE was the ease and gentleness of the method, making it promising for someone who doesn't like non-oral routes and wants to feel the effects for only a few minutes in a very controlled manner.

This seems like an odd response. It should be comparable to IV or vaporization, right? Have you tried other drugs this way to verify your expectations (which sound right to me) for the ROA? It's theoretically like vaporization without any loss or conversion to other compounds due to pyrolysis, right? If you're tolerant to MXE, try it with something you're not tolerant to and that's going to hit you like a sledge hammer like 4-AcO-DMT so there's no question about your machine. I mean, if you just made a 4-AcO-DMT solution and misted it directly into your bronchial mucosa I imagine it'd absorb pretty effectively, wouldn't it? What happens to all that MXE sitting in your lungs if it's not absorbed? You cough it out or it metabolizes into something else, right? but what? This is weird.

 

[m060mm]

With pills, people always talk about how binders get inhaled (into the lungs) via insufflation and cause various problems.

With purer substrates, is the 'damage' to the lungs about equal with the damage to the nasal mucosa? That is, relatively low versus most other ROAs.

 

[delic]

Unless there is some kind of damage on contact, or some impurity doesn't get quickly and fully absorbed, I would expect little impact on the lungs. At least a nebulized solution should give some assurance of the purity of what gets to the lungs.

But honestly, despite the enthusiasm of my initial post, I haven't used this ROA after the first few weeks because it seems to produce tolerance with little experience to show for it. Careful studies since then have also shown me that light trips give more tolerance per unit experience than heavy ones. In other words, I would have expected a heavy dose divided in two and taken twice as often to be as successful in returning to baseline before the next dose, but found rising tolerance instead.

 

[any major dude]

definite points for originality. Curious as to the seeming lack of efficacy though... seems odd. Anyone tried this ROA with other substances. An nBOMe perhaps?

 

[Zazen]

Unless there is some kind of damage on contact, or some impurity doesn't get quickly and fully absorbed, I would expect little impact on the lungs. At least a nebulized solution should give some assurance of the purity of what gets to the lungs.

But honestly, despite the enthusiasm of my initial post, I haven't used this ROA after the first few weeks because it seems to produce tolerance with little experience to show for it. Careful studies since then have also shown me that light trips give more tolerance per unit experience than heavy ones. In other words, I would have expected a heavy dose divided in two and taken twice as often to be as successful in returning to baseline before the next dose, but found rising tolerance instead.

Could you expand on what dosages you've done? This RoA has me really intrigued :D

 

[delic]

My tests used 300 mg of MXE in 4-5 mL of water. It had trouble dissolving completely at this concentration. Most of this solution was nebulized over about six occasions, producing 15 - 30 minutes sessions of mild to moderate effect. Normally I get several hours of moderate to strong effect from 30 mg, or strong effect from 50 mg, when taken intramuscularly, and have not benefited from doses higher than 50 mg by that route due to memory difficulties. Even if I had taken the nebulizer solution orally I would have at least expected mild effects to have persisted for a few hours. So I think something funny happens here, similar to the "insta tolerance" noted for etaqualone vaporized compared to taken orally, where a dose that would have been effective for hours orally has worn off in much shorter time, and produces decreasing effect with each toke, if vaporized. It could be that somehow most of the nebulized MXE was being absorbed by other than my lungs, which I would expect to give effects more like oral or nasal dosing, but instead it was milder/absent. I had also vaporized up to 50 mg of MXE, converted to the freebase on other occasions. The material vaporized completely without darkening and initially gave intense effects, comparable to 50 mg IM, but these effects disappeared almost completely within only a few minutes. Ketamine gave very similar results. So unless it almost completely decomposed due to the heat, I must have been walking around with 50 mg of MXE in me feeling nearly normal. I have to assume that the NMDA receptors are tuning out MXE's effect when the increase in concentration is very rapid - but I have no IV experience with which to test this hypothesis. I don't see how the body would distinguish vaped from IV.

 

[psood0nym]

^Fair enough with MXE, but, as asked already, have you tried it with other drugs? I'd imagine any pure substance you've got that works well vaporized or IV'd ought to be a good candidate. I imagine 4-AcO-DMT would be worthwhile as it's supposed to be DMT like when IV'd (but vaped I'm guessing it gets broken down by heat).