Opioids Use of Ketamine on opioid withdrawal

[Nicocastillo7]

Hello, searching google I found this article about interesting things about the use of ketamine to treat addiction in a patient

Experience of the use of Ketamine to manage opioid withdrawal in an addicted woman: a case report

Opioids are good painkillers, but many patients treated with opioids as painkillers developed a secondary addiction. These patients need to stop misusing opioids, but the mild-to-severe clinical symptoms associated with opioid withdrawal risk increasing ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Opioids are good painkillers, but many patients treated with opioids as painkillers developed a secondary addiction. These patients need to stop misusing opioids, but the mild-to-severe clinical symptoms associated with opioid withdrawal risk increasing their existing pain. In such cases, ketamine, which is used by anaesthetists and pain physicians to reduce opioid medication, may be an effective agent for managing opioid withdrawal. "
"Ketamine displays many interesting qualities for dealing with all symptoms relating to opioid withdrawal. Accordingly, it could be used instead of many psychotropic treatments, which interact with each other, to help with opioid withdrawal. However, the literature describes addiction to ketamine. All in all, although potentially addictive, ketamine could be a good candidate for the pharmacological management of opioid withdrawal. "

I have an addiction to tramadol, which while not a very strong opioid, is really addictive and withdrawal is horrible.
I have pure ketamine, I just received a 50ml 50mg ketamine vet.
I will try this weekend to administer small doses during the day (I tolerate it well) and I will see how it works to control the withdrawal of tramadol, what do you think about this?

 

[nznity]

Nico i did some K today after a year AND god it felt so good. That Indian vial was fire. Hope u get some relief from K too cheers hermano

 

[MsDiz]

I wouldn’t advise using one addictive substance to stop another one. You can taper off tramadol, even doing water titration nearing the end. Jumping off the last bit is hard but as long as you’re hydrating, have vitamins and 5HTP will help also. Just do a slow taper. You’ll be grateful you did it that way by the end.

 

[negrogesic]

I didnt think it worked that well, in fact it can make you feel weirder. I was addicted to IV morphine at the time and was in cold turkey withdrawal and tried ketamine for relief.

I got much much more relief from IV ketamine than intramuscular. IM ketamine made me feel weirder/worse, whereas IV ketamine actually brought some definite warmth/relief. It was very short lived but this could be useful to smooth out the peaks of acute withdrawal. Keep in mind IV ketamine is very dangerous so i can't really recommend it unless you are a sophisticated user. All you need is 10mg or so. IV is more narcotic feeling whereas IM is psychedelic. You don't want to be tripping while in opioid withdrawal.

What doses of tramadol are you using? Keep in mind I was in withdrawal from high dose IV morphine, which produces severe withdrawal. Ketamine might be more helpful for lower level withdrawal syndromes.

The problem with ketamine in non-IV administration is that i feel like it slows down the passage of time, which isnt such a great quality for a person in opioid withdrawal. Again I don't recommend IV ketamine for anyone but the advanced user, and even then it only brings short-term relief.

Try and get some stimulants like ritalin or amphetamine, they help tramadol withdrawal.

 

[Nicocastillo7]

I didnt think it worked that well, in fact it can make you feel weirder. I was addicted to IV morphine at the time and was in cold turkey withdrawal and tried ketamine for relief.

I got much much more relief from IV ketamine than intramuscular. IM ketamine made me feel weirder/worse, whereas IV ketamine actually brought some definite warmth/relief. It was very short lived but this could be useful to smooth out the peaks of acute withdrawal. Keep in mind IV ketamine is very dangerous so i can't really recommend it unless you are a sophisticated user. All you need is 10mg or so. IV is more narcotic feeling whereas IM is psychedelic. You don't want to be tripping while in opioid withdrawal.

What doses of tramadol are you using? Keep in mind I was in withdrawal from high dose IV morphine, which produces severe withdrawal. Ketamine might be more helpful for lower level withdrawal syndromes.

The problem with ketamine in non-IV administration is that i feel like it slows down the passage of time, which isnt such a great quality for a person in opioid withdrawal. Again I don't recommend IV ketamine for anyone but the advanced user, and even then it only brings short-term relief.

Try and get some stimulants like ritalin or amphetamine, they help tramadol withdrawal.

I felt a somewhat antidepressant effect that lasted a few days after taking ketamine. But I also found interesting the use of ketamine in opiate addicts
I have no experience in injecting myself, I don't think I want to, but I like to snort ketamine, perhaps orally, as in the study I don't know. I have enough ketamine, I will do the experiment of controlling withdrawal with ketamine


I was taking 750mg a day of tramadol (yes, I know) but I left it on cold turkey for 2 weeks, so my tolerance fell

 

[nznity]

I felt a somewhat antidepressant effect that lasted a few days after taking ketamine. But I also found interesting the use of ketamine in opiate addicts
I have no experience in injecting myself, I don't think I want to, but I like to snort ketamine, perhaps orally, as in the study I don't know. I have enough ketamine, I will do the experiment of controlling withdrawal with ketamine

I was taking 750mg a day of tramadol (yes, I know) but left on turkey for 2 weeks, so my tolerance fell

Man i took ketamine a few hrs ago
It was fire shit. I did 3 50mg shots 2 IM AND one IV.i swear i felt the antidepressant fx right Sway. Well I'm on half ácid tab ATM so idk. But today Is being a good day
Cheers to yall

 

[LuciferSam-SiamCat]

As far as IM Ketamine goes, what is the dosage ratio per kg? (medicinally-I'm having to educate my physicians as to the benefits and form, dosage, etc rather than the other way around). I'm unable to afford the infusions but was prescribed Ketamine troches. These didn't have the best bioavailability but more to the point that was my neurosurgeon. And he isn't treating me currently (good, right?). I have severe chronic pain from hyper mobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a connective tissue disease with no cure(hEDS), which has caused me to have many fusions in my spine, degenerative disc disease, and many, (many) other conditions. Our bodies are built differently from the cellular level so there are many types of pain we feel. So, I have been trying to speak to my pain doctor about possibly prescribing it and she looked like she thought I was crazy. However, as I explained more she said if I bring the information she will look into it. Does anyone have an idea regarding the dosage calculator or ratio used for IM Ketamine?

 

[negrogesic]

As far as IM Ketamine goes, what is the dosage ratio per kg? (medicinally-I'm having to educate my physicians as to the benefits and form, dosage, etc rather than the other way around). I'm unable to afford the infusions but was prescribed Ketamine troches. These didn't have the best bioavailability but more to the point that was my neurosurgeon. And he isn't treating me currently (good, right?). I have severe chronic pain from hyper mobile Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a connective tissue disease with no cure(hEDS), which has caused me to have many fusions in my spine, degenerative disc disease, and many, (many) other conditions. Our bodies are built differently from the cellular level so there are many types of pain we feel. So, I have been trying to speak to my pain doctor about possibly prescribing it and she looked like she thought I was crazy. However, as I explained more she said if I bring the information she will look into it. Does anyone have an idea regarding the dosage calculator or ratio used for IM Ketamine?

IM dosage for what purpose? Pain relief, potential antidepressant effects?

For depression doses for IM administration would be somewhere in the .25mg/kg to .5mg/kg range.

 

[supersonic89]

I was taking 750mg a day of tramadol (yes, I know) but I left it on cold turkey for 2 weeks, so my tolerance fell

Wow tramadol cold turkey?! Fuerza compañero!! You must feel like shit right now. When I quit tramadol cold turkey sertraline helped a little with the SSRI symptoms. Depression was the symptom affected me the most during cold turkey.
Saludos bro.

 

[evo4ever]

Ketamine is no where near as addictive as opioids, and the withdrawals are no where near as bad as opioids! I'd swap an Opioid addiction for a Ketamine addiction any day simply because Ket is MUCH easier to quit than Opioids. IMO I don't even think Ket is that addictive, I'd put it into the "Mildly Addictive" catagory.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I'm a big fan of the "less-than-mainstream" method of using one drug to help aid the cessation of another drug. It's not mainstream, as we still exist in a system in which complete and immediate abstinence is the deal and the idea of giving a addict any kind of "abusable" drug is a criminal offense.

I found great success in using Gabapentinoids to withdraw from Opioids in the past. I found I could greatly ease my symptoms without at all interfering with the course of my withdrawal syndrome There is no cross-tolerance between these two classes, so as long as I didnt use the Gabapentinoids for longer than what was necessary, I could end up free of both drugs without significant consequence.

So when you ask about Ketamine, I'm inclined to believe that there could be some significant benefit in both the short and long term. In the short term, the Ketamine might alleviate some of the symptoms of acute withdrawal, while in the long term, it might help with PAWS symptoms like anxiety, insomnia and depression.

Ketamine has shown some serious promise in the treatment of Depression. It seems to be highly effective for many people with the primary drawback being it's short duration of action regarding retreating every few weeks or so.

Just mentioning Ketamine to doc's had gotten me immediate looks of disdain and suspicion despite the fact that Ketamine infusions are, for the most part, a non-recreational experience with low levels of psychoactive effects. They are just stuck in their conservative bullshit. A demonstrated, effective treatment for Depression is derided before you even get to the part explaining how the treatment works.

The great thing about K from a Harm Reduction perspective is its relative safety compared to other sedatives, painkillers etc. It can produce heavy sedation and anesthesia without major effects upon respiration.

So I'm basically saying, if you think it works for you or you're looking to try it, you dont have to be super worried about accidental overdose. However, as a dissociative, Ketamine can lead to complete loss of consciousness known colloquially as a "K-Hole". I had a friend who did a shot of Ketamine expecting fun times and introspection. He woke up 4 hours later with a fractured forearm and a broken TV.

While the drug won't kill you directly, just like with any substance that effects your consciousness, you might end up in trouble just because you're not in control of your body. Also, there seems to be a high risk of urological problems associated with chronic Ketamine usage. A lot of folks have ended up with ruptured bladders as a result of chronic usage.

Hope some of this was helpful!

 

[Nicocastillo7]

Wow tramadol cold turkey?! Fuerza compañero!! You must feel like shit right now. When I quit tramadol cold turkey sertraline helped a little with the SSRI symptoms. Depression was the symptom affected me the most during cold turkey.
Saludos bro.

Since I published the post I had several relapses. Ups and downs. The 29th of this month marks 1 month without using any opiates. I had an unpleasant 2 weeks, but I already feel better, I am not physically abstinent. I really wish I had the ketamine I name in the post to deal with these cravings. I believe faithfully in ketamine to help with PAWS, if I continue as I go I will try some ketamine. At the moment I feel fine, I am taking venlafaxine and diazepam together with clonazepam. I still can't say that I get over this addiction, but I'm projecting new things, things are refragmenting, like in a k-hole

 

[jhjhsdi]

I know a good handful of ex heroin addicts who used K to 'come off' and are now clean.

I also used it to great success to combat hardcore benzo withdrawals.

I also use it for everything else because I love it but there is no denying that it helps with opiate/benzo and also alcohol withdrawal.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Since I published the post I had several relapses. Ups and downs. The 29th of this month marks 1 month without using any opiates. I had an unpleasant 2 weeks, but I already feel better, I am not physically abstinent. I really wish I had the ketamine I name in the post to deal with these cravings. I believe faithfully in ketamine to help with PAWS, if I continue as I go I will try some ketamine. At the moment I feel fine, I am taking venlafaxine and diazepam together with clonazepam. I still can't say that I get over this addiction, but I'm projecting new things, things are refragmenting, like in a k-hole

Hey Nico, good for your for making some progress on your goals. As we all know, quitting Opioids isn't easy whether you're injecting Heroin or drinking Codeine syrup.

I think the angle of utilizing another SNRI to treat some of the more complex symptoms of Tramadol withdrawal is interesting. I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people. It makes sense for sure.

Keep us updated on your situation dude. Are there any realistic chances of you getting Ketamine? There might be clinics or independent docs who might be willing to help. Ketamine is not like Methadone in that really, anyone with an MD who is willing to prescribe it can.

 

[Nicocastillo7]

Hey Nico, good for your for making some progress on your goals. As we all know, quitting Opioids isn't easy whether you're injecting Heroin or drinking Codeine syrup.

I think the angle of utilizing another SNRI to treat some of the more complex symptoms of Tramadol withdrawal is interesting. I'm sure this is going to help a lot of people. It makes sense for sure.

Keep us updated on your situation dude. Are there any realistic chances of you getting Ketamine? There might be clinics or independent docs who might be willing to help. Ketamine is not like Methadone in that really, anyone with an MD who is willing to prescribe it can.

Thank you very much Keif, I know you have read about this journey in my posts, I think we can take advantage of certain things from that information.
The use of an SNRI in my case is only working a little better now, at this stage, maybe it must be because it takes some time to work, but it stabilizes the mood much as it would the constant use of tramadol.
I can get ketamine, but not "legal" my doctor would not give me ketamine in any way, but I can get it, maybe I will try in a few more days

 

[Nicocastillo7]

He would not give me ketamine, because he knows me a lot, he knows that I have taken a lot of grams recreationally in the past ... and although he knows about its good properties, very good for PAWS and many things, in Argentina we are very behind in medicine.

 

[Keif' Richards]

He would not give me ketamine, because he knows me a lot, he knows that I have taken a lot of grams recreationally in the past ... and although he knows about its good properties, very good for PAWS and many things, in Argentina we are very behind in medicine.

I feel you on that Nico. It's so frustrating to know that medicine, a science, is so heavily influenced by opinion, tradition and morality. We are here in the "Greatest Country in the World". We consume the most drugs by far here in Americ and we have the most antiquated system of addiction treatment to go along with it.

It's no longer an opinion that Harm Reduction philosophy is an effective approach. We know that giving addicts clean equipment, a clean supply of drugs etc. is ultimately the best way to reduce the financial burden of this stuff along with the misery experienced by addicts.

There is nothing crazy or "wrong" about treating an addict with Ketamine, but providers won't do it simply because Ketamine is used recreationally. It's not dangerous or harmful. It is just shunned because of a twisted sense of morality.

 

[Yaara]

It’s so interesting. Before I really even was aware of a recreational use of ketamine, I was given a slow iv bag of it in the ER for some intense pain (they tend to give me something different every time but omfg stay away from haldol). The next time I had to go in, they asked me what had worked on my pain in the past, and of course when I told them IV ketamine (thinking that would appeal more to them than saying dilauded/hydromorphone right away) and they pretty much flipped. Like they had never heard of it being used for pain.
The stuff really does calm me though and helps my mood for days. I hate when the freaking doctors ask you what works and then tell you they don’t feel comfortable giving you that, and put it in your chart that you ASKED for it. Like sorry I thought we were being transparent here?
Tangent aside, I had a pain doctor (who doesn’t prescribe opiates) prescribe 10mg ketamine lozenges, meant to be orally absorbing and that doesn’t do shit! I wish it did!

 

[jhjhsdi]

@Yaara 10mg!? 10!!!?? No wonder they don't do shit lol. Even with no tolerance I don't think 10mg would hardly do anything even if you IV'd it lol.
How many of the lozenges do you get at a time? I've never heard of them.

 

[Yaara]

@Yaara 10mg!? 10!!!?? No wonder they don't do shit lol. Even with no tolerance I don't think 10mg would hardly do anything even if you IV'd it lol.
How many of the lozenges do you get at a time? I've never heard of them.

Yeah they were a compounded, speciality pharmacy thing. I can’t keep solids/pills down due to a stomach disorder, so we tried a lot of orally absorbing things. I got a little box of 30 of them. I didn’t bother refilling (cause docs think I’m crazy when it pops up in the system) but I wonder now about dissolving several of them and putting it thru my feeding tube.... sometimes orally absorbing meds don’t do much in the gut though. Who knows.