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Underestimating the power of No-Doz

Sarah_Tonin

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
2
Making the weekends capped speed bombs recently, I placed 2 crushed No-Doz (on shelf caffeine/glucose tablets) equalling 200mg of Caffeine in one cap only and placed it in amongst the rest. While I knew which one it was, my greedy little boyfriend didnt and dropped that particular one before hitting the town. 2hours into the night, with only that in the system he told me my speed only gave him a short buzz and then went to the toilet for the 10th time that hour. Shortly after that, he dropped a strong pill and peaked off his nut! He had tried these pills before and is a frequent taker but here he was clearly peaking like it was his first time. I attributed the peaking success to his cleaned lower intestine and the lack of speed in his system which often seems to take the edge off a pill. Was I right? How chemically do the two stimulates differ?

Im curious to know what would happen if I was to cut base with crushed No-Doz?
 
Careful Mixing Stimulants.....

How chemically do the two stimulates differ?

Considerably, although the pharmacological effect of both are somewhat similar, particularly at higher doses. Caffeine is known to produce synergistic and additive effects with amphetamines. Be careful combining different stimulants as this " sum is greater than the parts" tendency with caffeine can lower the toxic threshold of both drugs when consumed together. Be extremely careful with pure caffeine crystal and any crushed tablets containing caffeine.


caffeine_3d_mid.jpg



methamphetamine_3d_mid.jpg


[EDIT: Incorrect warning removed. See superbabydoc's post below; p_d]
 
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^^^ wow one gram u say of caffeine is deadly

i remember one of my 1st year uni chemistry experiments was to extract pure caffeine crystals from coffee. and we got to take it home in its very own baggie. im sure we got no warnings or the like about it. there was a joke in the lab that day to put it all together to make a very strong coffee for cramming for exams

lucky we didnt try it hey :/
 
Sarah_Tonin said:
Im curious to know what would happen if I was to cut base with crushed No-Doz?

You'd have a mix of No-Doz and base.

Also, I'm very against the notion of giving people drugs without their consent... What if he'd had a lot of coffee that day or even taken a few No-Doz earlier?
 
Caffeine is gross. All the negatives of meth without any of the positives.
If I found out my dealer was cutting meth with it, I'd tell him to shove it up his arse and never buy off him again.
 
I'd also like to reinforce the notion of being careful using no-doz in high amounts, especially if one is dancing or otherwise exerting themselves.

After only 2 no-doz's in about 1.5 hours, I found that I was able to dance hard with ease and felt a sensation similar to speed or mdma. Though I soon began to feel very uncomfotable, with a rapid and painful heart beat etc. I had to stop dancing and soon left because of this. I'd never felt my heart beat in a painful way like that before. Other friends had similar experiences, and some had trouble sleeping because of paranoia. All of us were experienced with speed and mdma, and all decided that caffeine had a different and unfavouring effect on the body compared to other drugs.

Even if you are using caffeine with other drugs and not really 'feeling' it, as far as I'm concerned any negative effects it normally has will just be worse. Don't rely it on just because it is legal! Many many people are oblivious to their addiction to mild doses of caffeine.

Just be careful :)
 
eggo said:

i remember one of my 1st year uni chemistry experiments was to extract pure caffeine crystals from coffee. and we got to take it home in its very own baggie. im sure we got no warnings or the like about it. there was a joke in the lab that day to put it all together to make a very strong coffee for cramming for exams

lucky we didnt try it hey :/

Yeh i did this in first year chem two years ago and we didn't get a warning either. I was considering taken some but decided against it because i had no idea about how sterile the equipment we used were and so on.
 
For me a simple way of looking at it is simply the ratio of central nervous system effects to peripheral nervous system effects.

CNS:PNS.

Caffeine and ephedrine have a far smaller CNS:PNS ratio than amphetamine or methamphetamine.

Thus the negative PNS effects are felt more noticeably than with the amphetamines because:
a) there is relatively less CNS effects to put you in a place where perhaps you would ignore or not even feel the negative effects you may experience. (not necessarily a good thing)
b) the dose you are taking for those limited CNS effects is far far greater than you would for the amphetamines thus making those horrid PNS effects all the more prevalent.
 
having too much caffine (no-doz x 4-6+) used to turn me into a very irritable person. i literally have no patience and everything around me becomes the most annoying shit ever! even locking yourself away from people doesn't help because you sit there and think about evil shit because your so angry at every1 and everything! not very nice. this was before i knew anything about the effects of drugs. i thought that because no-doz is legal and over the counter it couldn't have any bad side effects. how dumb was i back then?
 
^^^ Would kinda ruin the whole PLUR feel of a night out in a hot club full of off guts people.
 
I cant find the above reference for my claim that 1 gram of caffeine is considered lethal. Until then I've amended the statement.

Here are the relevant details concerning toxicity, indicating caffeine is far less toxic to humans than I previously indicated;

From Erowid; the MSDS sheet for caffeine

TOXICITY
CAFFEINE:
TOXICITY DATA:
ANHYDROUS: 320 mg/kg oral-child LDLo; 192 mg/kg oral-human LDLo;
14700 ug/kg oral-infant TDLo; 13 mg/kg oral-man TDLo; 96 mg/kg/1 day
intermittent oral-woman TDLo; 1 gm/kg oral-woman LDLo; 192 mg/kg oral-rat
LD50; 127 mg/kg oral-mouse LD50; 224 mg/kg oral-rabbit LD50; 100 mg/kg
oral-cat LDLo; 140 mg/kg oral-dog LD50; 230 mg/kg oral-guinea pig LD50;
230 mg/kg oral-hamster LD50; 170 mg/kg subcutaneous-rat LD50; 242 mg/kg
subcutaneous-mouse LD50; 275 mg/kg subcutaneous-rabbit LDLo; 7 mg/kg
intravenous-human TDLo; 57 mg/kg intravenous-woman LDLo; 68 mg/kg
intravenous-infant TDLo; 105 mg/kg intravenous-rat LD50; 62 mg/kg
intravenous-mouse LD50; 58 mg/kg intravenous-rabbit LD50; 240 mg/kg
intraperitoneal-rat LD50; mutagenic data (RTECS); reproductive effects
data (RTECS); tumorigenic data (RTECS).
MONOHYDRATE: No data available.
CARCINOGEN STATUS: Human Inadequate Evidence, Animal Inadequate Evidence (IARC
Group-3).
ACUTE TOXICITY LEVEL: Toxic by ingestion.
TARGET EFFECTS: Poisoning may affect the central nervous system and heart.
AT INCREASED RISK FROM EXPOSURE: Persons with glaucoma, duodenal ulcers,
liver, cardiovascular, renal or psychological disorders.
ADDITIONAL DATA: May cross the placenta. May be excreted in breast milk.
Alcohol may enhance the toxic effects. Interactions with medications have
been reported.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HEALTH EFFECTS AND FIRST AID

INHALATION:
CAFFEINE:
ACUTE EXPOSURE- May irritate the nose and throat and cause coughing and
chest discomfort. If sufficient quantities are absorbed, may cause
poisoning as detailed in acute ingestion. No deaths were reported in
rats exposed to 55 ppm for 4 hours.
CHRONIC EXPOSURE- If sufficient quantities are absorbed, may cause poisoning
as detailed in chronic ingestion.
FIRST AID- Remove from exposure area to fresh air immediately. Perform
artificial respiration if necessary. Keep person warm and at rest. Treat
symptomatically and supportively. Get medical attention immediately.
SKIN CONTACT:
CAFFEINE:
ACUTE EXPOSURE- May cause irritation.
CHRONIC EXPOSURE- No data available.
FIRST AID- Remove contaminated clothing and shoes immediately. Wash with
soap or mild detergent and large amounts of water until no evidence of
chemical remains (at least 15-20 minutes). Get medical attention
immediately.
EYE CONTACT:
University of California - MSDS System PAGE 4
06/27/97
CAFFEINE:
ACUTE EXPOSURE- May cause irritation.
CHRONIC EXPOSURE- No data available.
FIRST AID- Wash eyes immediately with large amounts of water or normal saline,
occasionally lifting upper and lower lids, until no evidence of chemical
remains (at least 15-20 minutes). Get medical attention immediately.
INGESTION:
CAFFEINE:
TOXIC.
ACUTE EXPOSURE- Low concentrations may cause a small decrease in heart rate.
Ingestion of large amounts may result in headache, lightheadedness,
dizziness, chills, fever, excitement, restlessness, nervousness, insomnia,
mild delirium, hallucinations, tinnitus, constricted pupils, decreased
visual fields, amblyopia, diplopia, photophobia, and scintillating
scotoma. Neurologic symptoms may persist for several days. May cause
gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, vomiting, stimulation of gastric
acid secretion, anorexia, hematemesis, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, and
diuresis followed by oliguria and dehydration. Other effects may include
alternating states of consciousness and muscle twitching, tremors,
hyperesthesia, hypertonicity or hypotonicity, trismus, opisthotonus and
convulsions. Slight increase in basal metabolic rate, metabolic acidosis,
ketonuria, glycosuria, hyperglycemia, hypokalemia and rhabdomyolysis
have been reported. Other effects may include dyspnea, tachypnea, chest
tightness, palpitations, increase in systolic blood pressure, and
arrhythmias including tachycardia and extrasystoles. Seizures generally
precede death.
CHRONIC EXPOSURE- In addition to the effects detailed in acute exposure,
agitation, disturbed sleep, caffeine-induced psychosis, heartburn and
hyperventilation may occur. Low grade fever and elevated plasma free
fatty acid have been reported. Respiratory failure and cardiopulmonary
arrest may occur. Prolonged use of high doses may result in tolerence,
physical and psychological dependence. Symptoms of withdrawal may occur
following abrupt cessation. Use of caffeine by pregnant women has been
associated with increased incidences of spontaneous abortion, breech
presentations, stillbirth, premature delivery, low birth weight,
developmental abnormalities of the craniofacial and musculoskeletal
systems and babies with decreased activity and decreased muscle tone.
Other reproductive effects have been reported in animals. As evaluated by
RTECS, administration to mice resulted in a statistically significant
increase in the incidence of carcinogenic tumors of the skin and
appendages.
FIRST AID- If the person is conscious and not convulsing, induce emesis by
giving syrup of ipecac followed by water or by gastric lavage using
activated charcoal whether or not vomiting has occurred. (If vomiting
occurs keep the head below the hips to prevent aspiration). (Dreisbach,
Handbook of Poisoning, 12th Ed.). Treat symptomatically and supportively.
Gastric lavage should be performed by qualified medical personnel. Get
medical attention immediately.
ANTIDOTE:
No specific antidote. Treat symptomatically and supportively.
 
phase_dancer: you might have been thinking of this: "A single 1 gram dose of caffeine may cause confusion, tremors, tachycardia, pyrexia, vomiting and diarrhea; whereas a lethal dose in an adult is estimated to range between 150 to 200 milligrams/kilogram" Peters JM: Factors affecting caffeine toxicity. J Clin Pharmacol 1967; 131-141.
 
Thanks babydoc, I seem to remember it being in context with rates of metabolism. It could have even been to do with delivering a single dose. Anyway thanks for clearing that up.

Here's something I did find in Introduction to Organic Lab Techniques by Pavia et al

Caffeine can be toxic; but, it has been estimated, to acheive a lethal dose one would have to drink about 100 cups over a short period
 
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